Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo

A Christian law school in BC?


  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#1 AK_19

AK_19

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,444 posts
  • Joined: 20-July 08

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:16 AM

http://bc.ctvnews.ca...deans-1.1119495

Plans to add a law department on the Trinity Western University campus are coming under fire because of a controversial oath students and faculty are required to swear.
The Council of Canadian Law Deans issued a letter this week criticizing the Christian university’s Community Covenant, which expressly forbids homosexual relationships on campus.
“In keeping with biblical and TWU ideals, community members voluntarily abstain from… sexual intimacy that violates the sacredness of marriage between a man and a woman,” it reads.




Trinity Western University's plans to build a law school are being questioned by Canadian deans. Jan. 17, 2013. (CTV)
Violating the covenant can result in penalties, including expulsion, though the university insists it has never thrown out a student for being gay.
CCLD president William Flanagan said the document, as it stands, is fundamentally opposed to the core values held at every law school in the country.
“A policy like this is a policy that expressly discriminates against lesbian and gay students,” Flanagan said.
TWU president Dr. Jonathan S. Raymond said the covenant and the ideals it contains are an important part of the university’s Christian identity.
That doesn’t make the school unfriendly to homosexuals, he added.
“There’s nowhere in any document that we say something hostile towards gays or lesbians,” Raymond said.
Asked what would happen if a married same-sex couple were found to be students at TWU, Raymond said “I don’t know.”
“Do you know why? It’s the beginning of a conversation. It’s never happened.”
Students at the university told CTV News they know of gay students on campus, and that they have never seen hateful behaviour towards them.
The TWU covenant also bans gossip, vulgar language, pornography and alcohol consumption on campus, even by adults.
A post on the university’s website dated for Dec. 5, 2012 states that faculty anticipate the B.C. Ministry of Advanced Education and the Federation of Law Societies of Canada to approve the new law school within six to 12 months.
If approved, TWU estimates the school would be open in September 2015.


Read more: http://bc.ctvnews.ca...5#ixzz2IPJZ7JxF


  • 0

#2 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,906 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:20 AM

*
POPULAR

So? If you don't like their rules - don't go there.
  • 8

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#3 Bitter Melon

Bitter Melon

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: 04-August 11

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:32 AM

So? If you don't like their rules - don't go there.


That pretty much sums it up. I don't agree with them, but it's their institution and they should run it as they see fit.

There are much better universities out there anyways.
  • 0

#4 Armada

Armada

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,071 posts
  • Joined: 03-February 08

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:37 AM

Is this so they can sue you if you tell them god isn't real?
  • 0
Posted Image
______________Eat, Sleep,Posted ImageRave, Repeat

#5 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,906 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:45 AM

*
POPULAR

Is this so they can sue you if you tell them god isn't real?


No. Just....no.
  • 5

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#6 Armada

Armada

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,071 posts
  • Joined: 03-February 08

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:46 AM

No. Just....no.


I went there, there's no going back now.
  • 0
Posted Image
______________Eat, Sleep,Posted ImageRave, Repeat

#7 AK_19

AK_19

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,444 posts
  • Joined: 20-July 08

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:53 AM

Would any of you have issues if the law school had holistic admissions process that favours those with greater religiosity?
  • 0

#8 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,906 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:55 AM

Would any of you have issues if the law school had holistic admissions process that favours those with greater religiosity?


Only if it was the only law school....
  • 1

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#9 G-52

G-52

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 694 posts
  • Joined: 29-April 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:03 AM

religion should have nothing to do with law.
  • 0

Posted Image


#10 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,906 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:04 AM

religion should have nothing to do with law.


Why not?

There are "laws" in religion.
  • 0

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#11 AK_19

AK_19

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,444 posts
  • Joined: 20-July 08

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:27 AM

Only if it was the only law school....


If TWU was to get a law school there would be many students that would apply there as there are currently many applicants that are denied the opportunity to study at a Canadian law school. Primary schools, secondary schools and undergraduate programs do not have the same issue of scarcity.
  • 0

#12 Common sense

Common sense

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,736 posts
  • Joined: 08-January 06

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:32 AM

At the end of the day, TWU is a private institution. They're not getting public money (hence they have one of Canada's highest tuition rates), and their code of conduct isn't infringing on anyone who ain't attending TWU.
  • 0

#13 Dellins

Dellins

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,708 posts
  • Joined: 14-April 09

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:40 AM

doublepost

Edited by Dellins, 19 January 2013 - 11:06 AM.

  • 0

#14 Dellins

Dellins

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,708 posts
  • Joined: 14-April 09

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:41 AM

The TWU covenant also bans gossip, vulgar language, pornography and alcohol consumption on campus,


Read more: http://bc.ctvnews.ca...5#ixzz2IPJZ7JxF



Posted Image

Yeah... good luck with that.

Edited by Dellins, 19 January 2013 - 02:43 AM.

  • 0

#15 Bitter Melon

Bitter Melon

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: 04-August 11

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:44 AM

Would any of you have issues if the law school had holistic admissions process that favours those with greater religiosity?


No, like I said it's their institution and they can run it as they see fit. I would never want to go there, and they're not receiving public money so its no skin off my back.
  • 0

#16 Dral

Dral

    Puts the Dr in Drunk

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,636 posts
  • Joined: 30-July 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:27 AM

You have the right to turn the other cheek

You have the right to be crucified

You have the right to believe in Gawd All Mighty (if you give up this right, you will burn in a fiery pit of damnation for eternity)

You have the right to rightously slaughter people with disagree with your spiritual beliefs
  • 0

Fruits?

Lord Peaches' gut is telling him that the drunken fool, aka Dral, is 100% mafia.

 MVP?

Dral is 100% mafia or I will masteb_ _ _ _ a cow and like it

GOATis?

Vig kill dral he never talks like this when he's not mafia.

 


#17 Common sense

Common sense

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,736 posts
  • Joined: 08-January 06

Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:16 AM

You have the right to turn the other cheek

You have the right to be crucified

You have the right to believe in Gawd All Mighty (if you give up this right, you will burn in a fiery pit of damnation for eternity)

You have the right to rightously slaughter people with disagree with your spiritual beliefs


The Criminal Code of Canada begs to differ with you on your last point.
  • 0

#18 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:54 AM

Why not?

There are "laws" in religion.

Different laws - they are not laws of general application.

And this would not be an issue if they were not teaching secular law - the reason they are seeking approval is to teach the same curriculum as other law schools but promoting an agenda that denies equality to homosexuals.

That is the issue that has the Council concerned.
  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#19 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,906 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

You have the right to turn the other cheek

You have the right to be crucified

You have the right to believe in Gawd All Mighty (if you give up this right, you will burn in a fiery pit of damnation for eternity)

You have the right to rightously slaughter people with disagree with your spiritual beliefs


Though I disagree with their "policy" on homosexuality, and if you yourself see it as hatred - well then you're a hypocrite as your post is full of hatred.
  • 1

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#20 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,906 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:27 AM

Different laws - they are not laws of general application.

And this would not be an issue if they were not teaching secular law - the reason they are seeking approval is to teach the same curriculum as other law schools but promoting an agenda that denies equality to homosexuals.

That is the issue that has the Council concerned.


Thou shall not kill - similar to our murder laws...

Though I don't agree with TWU stance, I don't think they are "promoting" it as you say - they just have it - which, as others have said, is a violation of human rights...

So yes, I agree, it is an issue...
  • 0

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#21 Mr. Ambien

Mr. Ambien

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,039 posts
  • Joined: 07-April 03

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:30 AM

What is this law school doing even mentioning homosexuality, never mind making people take oaths about who they have sex with? That's just ???? stupid.

Edited by zaibatsu, 19 January 2013 - 10:30 AM.

  • 0

#22 Lockout Casualty

Lockout Casualty

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,048 posts
  • Joined: 06-December 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:31 AM

A private school should ban Christians.
  • 0
“Hi Nigel, just a quick note to say that I am always ready to do exactly what is asked but it would have been a great help to know in advance what the strategy was.”

- Carolyn Stewart Olsen, Conservative Senator.

#23 Hyzer

Hyzer

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,919 posts
  • Joined: 29-March 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

Who cares. TWU is garbage anyway. The dumbest kids from my high school get in there like its nothing so they can make more $$$, yet they think they're christian without all the greed.
  • 0

#24 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:07 AM

Thou shall not kill - similar to our murder laws...

Though I don't agree with TWU stance, I don't think they are "promoting" it as you say - they just have it - which, as others have said, is a violation of human rights...

So yes, I agree, it is an issue...

You missed the point.

Secular laws of general application apply across the board to society - religious laws do not. A law malum in se (such as murder, rape, and theft) is accepted as wrong in itself and just because there may be an overlap from your book of stories is not the issue. These crimes developed in the English common law setting and became common law crimes.

Our Criminal Code put such crimes into statutory form and also included any number of offences described as malum prohibitum i.e. conduct that constitutes an unlawful act only by virtue of a statute. The 1953 consolidation of criminal law abolished all common law offences, except Contempt of Court under our Criminal Code.

Others say it is a violation??? It IS a violation but in a private setting religious freedom may prevail. However as we saw it does not prevail in a public setting and TWU is proposing to teach a law school curriculum on secular law that violates the Charter.

Thou shalt not kill? Given all the killing in the name of Christianity throughout the centuries that seems a little ironical, eh?
  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#25 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,906 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

You missed the point.

Secular laws of general application apply across the board to society - religious laws do not. A law malum in se (such as murder, rape, and theft) is accepted as wrong in itself and just because there may be an overlap from your book of stories is not the issue. These crimes developed in the English common law setting and became common law crimes.

Our Criminal Code put such crimes into statutory form and also included any number of offences described as malum prohibitum i.e. conduct that constitutes an unlawful act only by virtue of a statute. The 1953 consolidation of criminal law abolished all common law offences, except Contempt of Court under our Criminal Code.

Others say it is a violation??? It IS a violation but in a private setting religious freedom may prevail. However as we saw it does not prevail in a public setting and TWU is proposing to teach a law school curriculum on secular law that violates the Charter.

Thou shalt not kill? Given all the killing in the name of Christianity throughout the centuries that seems a little ironical, eh?


Didn't say everyone followed the law - just like secular laws.
  • 0

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#26 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:26 AM

Didn't say everyone followed the law - just like secular laws.

The point of secular laws is that society by way of the Crown prosecutes violations and imposes sanctions including penal sanctions. It is a public matter binding upon all persons within the relevant jurisdiction.

Religious laws are quite different.
  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#27 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,906 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:30 AM

The point of secular laws is that society by way of the Crown prosecutes violations and imposes sanctions including penal sanctions. It is a public matter binding upon all persons within the relevant jurisdiction.

Religious laws are quite different.


Yes...yes...I get it.

Secular law says it's against the law to murder...and religious law says it's against the law to murder but the crown only prosecutes based on secular law but God will judge me based on religious law.
  • 0

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#28 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:32 AM

Yes...yes...I get it.

Secular law says it's against the law to murder...and religious law says it's against the law to murder but the crown only prosecutes based on secular law but God will judge me based on religious law.

You are assuming that there is in fact a God who would visit consequences upon a transgressor.

I need not make such an assumption in respect of the enforcing authority for secular law.
  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#29 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,906 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:47 AM

You are assuming that there is in fact a God who would visit consequences upon a transgressor.

I need not make such an assumption in respect of the enforcing authority for secular law.


True...but there are many countries in the world and not all secular laws are the same...but the laws in the Bible are the same no matter where you are.

Also...as far as secular law goes - all that matters is what can be "proven" - not what may have really happened.

As far as consequences, it's not really cut and dry is it as far as secular law. I mean, if you kill someone, it's not 25 years, it's a negotiation...based on circumstances and other things...maybe you get 10 years with parole in 5...maybe you get death row (again, depends on what country you live in)...maybe they say you were "insane" at the time so you get off Scot free. Maybe there was a mistake done by the police and the crown can't convict you at all.

Edit: Though the laws in the Bible are also open to interpretation - just like the punishment is for secular .

Edited by Heretic, 19 January 2013 - 11:48 AM.

  • 0

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#30 Tearloch7

Tearloch7

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,854 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 10

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:54 AM

You mean the laws in the Bible that include putting to death anyone who sleeps with a same sex partner or eats shellfish? .. those laws? .. scary .. B)

Edited by Tearloch7, 19 January 2013 - 11:56 AM.

  • 0

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.