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BC NDP Opposed to Smart Meters - But Will Do Nothing if Elected


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#61 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:56 PM

Just another newbie thrashing about who will not be with us for long on CDC. We have both seen countless such posters come and go at CDC over the years, eh?

Funny thing is, he's arguing with likely the only two posters in the thread who were around for the Dave Barrett government as well as Glen Clark's...

I always find it amusing when people form such a strong opinion on something, when they have so little practical experience with it.

Good thing is, I do not have to continue speaking with you about STUPID politics with you. My main concern is the Smart Meter Program, so blow buddy.

You certainly do not. You are welcome to pack up your extensive vocabulary and leave any time you wish.

Edited by RUPERTKBD, 10 February 2013 - 07:56 PM.

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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#62 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:56 PM

Many people in BC went to Vander Zalm to combat right wing politcs, so anything is possible

I heard all sorts of people speak against HST and supporting Vander Zalm's campaign but I do not recall hearing that rationale.
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#63 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

I am done in this circus, anyone who wants the TRUTH and NOT lies fed to you by Hydro and Health Canada, check out the Docs I have posted, they hold more than enough TRUTHFUL info to show what really is going on here. I can not believe Russia cares more for their citizens health, than Canada regarding this technology. Nighty night you wolves haha.

That's too bad. I hate to see a circus missing it's clown....
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#64 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:58 PM

I am done in this circus, anyone who wants the TRUTH and NOT lies fed to you by Hydro and Health Canada, check out the Docs I have posted, they hold more than enough TRUTHFUL info to show what really is going on here. I can not believe Russia cares more for their citizens health, than Canada regarding this technology. Nighty night you wolves haha.

Your "TRUTH" is much like the "TRUTH" of the anti-Obama birthers who never allow facts and scientific data to intrude upon their position,
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#65 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:59 PM

Keith Halliday is a Yukon economist and author of the Aurore of the Yukon series of historical children’s adventure novels. He was an outside observer and found the whole process perplexing. I previoulsy posted his opinion during the run-up to the HST referendum


In a strange turn of events, British Columbians who have successfully avoided economics classes their entire lives are now being subjected to a typical microeconomics final exam question: Which is better, a traditional sales tax like the old BC PST or a value-added tax like the new Harmonized Sales Tax (HST)?


A mail-in referendum is happening right now. What makes it different from an economics final exam is that voters have more than one professor.


There is an official “No” organization and another for “Yes.” Both are advertising vigorously, even going so far as to put election-style signs along the sides of the Stewart-Cassiar Highway for the benefit of voters in Dease Lake.


There is also an independent panel charged with opining on the choices. And finally, every think tank in Canada seems to have issued a report.


Tax policy is notoriously obscure and complex. In most countries, the choice of sales tax regime is left to the finance ministry and the legislature. This usually results in a tax like the HST, since most economists and tax experts view value-added taxes as much better than archaic sales taxes like the old BC PST. This is why nearly every country in Europe has an HST and not a PST.


It likely would have been the same in BC if the Liberal government in Victoria had not bungled the announcement of the tax, provoking a public backlash. Shortly after former BC premier Gordon Campbell announced the HST plan, one poll showed 82 per cent of British Columbians against it.


Now, new Premier Christy Clark is in damage control mode. To save the HST in the coming vote, she has announced a cut in the HST rate (which includes the five per cent federal GST) to 10 per cent from 12 per cent. She also raised corporate taxes, which is popular since that tax is invisible in the shops.


Meanwhile, disgraced former premier Bill Vander Zalm prowls the province successfully whipping up populist opposition against the HST. Like Vander Zalm, the BC NDP also prefers the old PST. It’s hard to tell if they really think the old PST was so great or if they just see a fine opportunity to attack their political opponents.


But let’s ignore the petty squabbles of politics and dive into the gripping world of tax economics.


The HST’s biggest advantage is that it is, in economist-talk, “non-distortionary.” Except for a few special things like alcohol and tobacco, it is generally harmful to productivity for government taxes to encourage some kinds of economic activity and discourage others. The old PST exempted haircuts, realtor commissions, massage therapy, management consulting and most other services, meaning that furniture makers, sporting goods stores and forestry companies had to carry the province’s tax burden. No one would design a new tax this way.


The PST also hurt exporters, since they had to pay PST on their supplies. This meant their costs were higher when they competed with Alberta or Washington companies. In effect, buyers in other jurisdictions were paying tax to the BC government. Taxing your own exports is not a strategy most countries pursue. The HST, in contrast, gives exporters a credit for the HST they pay on exported goods.


Another HST advantage is that it taxes consumption rather than investment and savings. This is why economists often prefer HST over corporate income taxes and especially taxes on capital. It seems silly to tax the profits of small business investors, and to let the rich in West Vancouver pay no taxes on the architect services for their million-dollar renovation.


A broad HST also attacks income tax evasion, a major issue in a province with such a big drug business. The HST gives grow-op millionaires a chance to contribute to public services in the province. Now they will pay tax on their mega-home purchases and airline tickets, and not just their heat lamps and hydroponic gear.


HST also saves the waste of having two different sales tax bureaucracies.


Finally, the HST is also more socially progressive than the old PST. This is because low-income citizens will get a rebate of up to $320 per year. Not a huge amount, but still better than the PST which had no low-income rebate.


It is of course preferable to have no sales tax at all. But that’s only possible if you have lots of oil money (Alberta and Alaska) or transfer payments (the Yukon). If you do need a sales tax, the HST is far superior to the old PST.


We’ll see if BC voters agree, despite the bungling of their government and the opportunistic posturing of opposition politicians.

http://yukon-news.co.../columns/23699/



I see only an opinion here, not a break down of what was and what also was at the time. Opinions are like..... well you know the old saying.
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#66 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:00 PM

That's too bad. I hate to see a circus missing it's clown....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

DO NOT mention clowns.

I suffer from coulrophobia.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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#67 TimberWolf

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:01 PM

I heard all sorts of people speak against HST and supporting Vander Zalm's campaign but I do not recall hearing that rationale.


Was to slow in my edit. My original post made little sense there, I agree.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

star-wars-hockey-goal.gif?w=284

#68 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:02 PM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

DO NOT mention clowns.

I suffer from coulrophobia.

Sorry Wet. I guess a pic of John Wayne Gacy is out of the question then?
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#69 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

I see only an opinion here, not a break down of what was and what also was at the time. Opinions are like..... well you know the old saying.

Opinions are what economists provide.

And as RupertKBD said the economists are scattered throughout the prior thread on the HST.

If you have reputable economists who did not support HST over the GST/PST feel free to provide the link.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#70 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

Sorry Wet. I guess a pic of John Wayne Gacy is out of the question then?


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#71 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

Are you honestly of the opinion that an NDP government will result in less taxation?



Not less taxation. Fairer taxation.
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#72 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

Not less taxation. Fairer taxation.

Then you should have supported HST.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#73 enforcer22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

Your "TRUTH" is much like the "TRUTH" of the anti-Obama birthers who never allow facts and scientific data to intrude upon their position,


http://en.wikipedia....magnetic_weapon I give up, you are right it is harmless. Good night.
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#74 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

I see only an opinion here, not a break down of what was and what also was at the time. Opinions are like..... well you know the old saying.

But an opinion is what you asked for. :huh:

Now you're supposed to show us how he somehow works for the BC Liberals...
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#75 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

Opinions are what economists provide.

And as RupertKBD said the economists are scattered throughout the prior thread on the HST.

If you have reputable economists who did not support HST over the GST/PST feel free to provide the link.



I got the best economists around. I got the people who were under the tax regime. The ones that voted the whole thing out. The ones that were able to vote because they were to feel the difference rather than having to opine about it. The ones that ended up paying more for their groceries because of it.
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#76 TimberWolf

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

Yup.

George Santayana, who, in his Reason in Common Sense, The Life of Reason, Vol.1, wrote

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Or courtesy of Edmund Burke (1729-1797):

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

I remember and lived through the past NDP administrations (Barrett and Harcourt/Clark/Miller/Dosanjh) and have no wish to see history repeated courtesy of a forger who was up to his elbows in wrongdoing under Clark.


People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard. - H.L. Mencken

And boy will BC earn it if they refuse to adhere to the above and learn from history. NDP BC have not days were dark.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

star-wars-hockey-goal.gif?w=284

#77 Harbinger

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:09 PM

Then you should have supported HST.


Yeah no...... I didn't mean Fairer as in costs less for the rich and for businesses. let the rich pay.
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#78 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

http://en.wikipedia....magnetic_weapon I give up, you are right it is harmless. Good night.

I thought you left the field of battle.

And after looking at your link, I am compelled to note it has no relevance to the issue under discussion.

So as you depart the field battle it seems that you leave bloody but unbowed still uninformed.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#79 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:21 PM

Like I said I got what you said LOUD AND CLEAR. Would you please stop attacking me and insulting me - I have said I am done posting my opinion - you win. Implying that I lied is deeming and insulting.

I said that you assumed something that was not warranted - whether it was your intention to lie, that is something within your knowledge.

Feel free to post your opinions but in the event they are uninformed, expect that they may be criticized as such.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 10 February 2013 - 08:21 PM.

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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#80 iwtl

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:56 PM

I said that you assumed something that was not warranted - whether it was your intention to lie, that is something within your knowledge.

Feel free to post your opinions but in the event they are uninformed, expect that they may be criticized as such.


I asked you to stop. I am not lying and deeply offended.
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#81 inane

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:08 PM

The first in many 'ndp bad' threads to come from some posters I'm sure...
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#82 Common sense

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:10 PM

Msp increases, tolls, hst, corrupt private public partnerships, tuition increases, park fees. What a joke


So we're ok with substandard traffic infrastructure and failing lab equipment at universities, correct?
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#83 silverpig

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:39 PM

I am done in this circus, anyone who wants the TRUTH and NOT lies fed to you by Hydro and Health Canada, check out the Docs I have posted, they hold more than enough TRUTHFUL info to show what really is going on here. I can not believe Russia cares more for their citizens health, than Canada regarding this technology. Nighty night you wolves haha.


So what is your stance on cell phone radiation, AM/FM transmitters, TV broadcasts, light bulbs, the sun, and anything not at a temperature of 0 kelvin?
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Moo

#84 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:45 PM

I asked you to stop. I am not lying and deeply offended.

I never accused you of lying.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#85 iwtl

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:52 PM

When you say " whether it was your intention to lie" Exactly how am I suppose to take it? - Really?

Look - I posted a cbc link - my question came from that link - I am not going to call the TV station and ask them to verify their story. You have issues with them by all means take it up with them. I had never questioned the individual involved as we are all innocent until proven guilty - I agree with anyone in the same position stepping down until cleared - I think they should do it on their own but don't want to further that as an opinion only.

You may not see it but your posts cross over from attacking the idea to attacking the poster. I don't want this to come accross as trying to call you out - rather an attempt at a peace offering. You may not intend to come across one way but ... it did. please accept that as what its intended - to move past this.

Edited by iwtl, 10 February 2013 - 09:55 PM.

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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#86 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:02 PM

When you say " whether it was your intention to lie" Exactly how am I suppose to take it? - Really?

Look - I posted a cbc link - my question came from that link - I am not going to call the TV station and ask them to verify their story. You have issues with them by all means take it up with them. I had never questioned the individual involved as we are all innocent until proven guilty - I agree with anyone in the same position stepping down until cleared - I think they should do it on their own but don't want to further that as an opinion only.

You may not see it but your posts cross over from attacking the idea to attacking the poster. I don't want this to come accross as trying to call you out - rather an attempt at a peace offering. You may not intend to come across one way but ... it did. please accept that as what its intended - to move past this.

My posts do not "cross the line" - I was questioning the accuracy of the information and the inferences you were making - that is what you were posting. As far as your motivation for doing so, as I noted I am unable to say as that would be within your personal knowledge.

It appears that you are yet again seeing things that are not there. Much like how you interpreted the article that you used to come to incorrect conclusions.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#87 sedated

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

Considering the waves have to go through a wall to even get to you, and that's considering if you're actually sleeping right around the thing, I don't see how it's any worse than people that carry a cell phone with them EVERYWHERE all the time and usually have it beside them when they sleep.
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#88 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:07 PM

Considering the waves have to go through a wall to even get to you, and that's considering if you're actually sleeping right around the thing, I don't see how it's any worse than people that carry a cell phone with them EVERYWHERE all the time and usually have it beside them when they sleep.

That seems to be the conclusion reached by Health Canada and numerous other government agencies and researchers.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#89 iwtl

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:52 PM

My posts do not "cross the line" - I was questioning the accuracy of the information and the inferences you were making - that is what you were posting. As far as your motivation for doing so, as I noted I am unable to say as that would be within your personal knowledge.

It appears that you are yet again seeing things that are not there. Much like how you interpreted the article that you used to come to incorrect conclusions.


Strongly disagree - very much so. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps



#90 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:55 PM

Strongly disagree - very much so. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

There is nothing to disagree about. You are seeing something that does not exist.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.




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