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Pope Benedict XVI to resign at the end of the month.


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#211 Dellins

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:59 PM

the new pope seems like he's not crazy and seems progressive, but the whole pedophile thing that ish needs to stop


Wanna bet?
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#212 Tearloch7

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:19 PM

Actually it's the complete opposite for this Pope.

He is renowned as having always eschewed any of the luxury and lifestyle. As the Cardinal of Argentina, he's famous for not wanting to get driven around in luxury cars. Rather he's always taken the bus and lived in a very modest apartment. In Buenos Aires it's been common knowledge for years that if you wanted a few minutes of the Cardinal's time, just hop on a city bus.

He's the first Jesuit Pope who's known as an evangelist and who's devoted his life to the poor and social justice. So strong is his conviction in social justice and reform that he's the first pope to ever take the name Francis.

The fact that Pope Francis has chosen a name that has not been used for before may signal that he wants to lead the church into a new chapter, or at least embrace a new tone. In Catholic tradition, St. Francis of Assisi is possibly the greatest patron Saint and who had a mystical vision of Jesus Christ who told him to rebuild his church.

In light of the scandals that have tarnished the Church, from its financial troubles to widespread allegations and cover-up of sex abuse, the name carries special significance and a strong message going forward.


I left the Church many years ago, but you can never realy "leave" .. I, too, echo your optimism .. I believe he will be the bridge to actual modernization of the Church .. if not, Catholicism is doomed within this century .. his kind smile speaks volumes ..
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#213 Wetcoaster

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:22 PM

Award winning investigative journalist and human rights activist Horacio Verbitsky has questioned the complicity of Pope Francis I in the brutal military dictatorship in Argentina during the so-called "Dirty War" in his book "El Silencio".

70-year-old journalist Horacio Verbitsky presides over Argentina’s Center for Legal and Social Studies. He is a member of the Board of Human Rights Watch/Americas and former member of the Board of the Iberian-American New Journalism Foundation, created by Gabriel García Márquez. Verbitsky is author of twenty books on political, economic, social, religious and military subjects and on the process of democratization. He has been granted the Martín Fierro Award as the best journalistic anchorman in Argentine TV. The Latin American Studies Association granted him its 1995/96 Media Award “in recognition of a long-term journalistic contribution to analysis and public debate about Latin America”. The jury commended “his behavior during the military regime from 1976 to 1983, when Verbitsky performed an absolutely essential role investigating humans rights violations”. In march 2001 a case brought by CELS jointly with the Grandmothers of Plaza de Mayo, got the declaration as null and void of the pardon laws. This ruling permitted that today 300 cases are open in Argentine domestic courts and 167 convictions for gross human rights violations of the past dictatorship have been already pronounced.


In 2011 this article was published in the Guardian newspaper in the UK.


The sins of the Argentine church

The Catholic Church was complicit in dreadful crimes in Argentina. Now it has a chance to repent



Benedict XVI gave us words of great comfort and encouragement in the message he delivered on Christmas Eve.


"God anticipates us again and again in unexpected ways," the pope said. "He does not cease to search for us, to raise us up as often as we might need. He does not abandon the lost sheep in the wilderness into which it had strayed. God does not allow himself to be confounded by our sin. Again and again he begins afresh with us".


If these words comforted and encouraged me they will surely have done the same for leaders of the church in Argentina, among many others. To the judicious and fair-minded outsider it has been clear for years that the upper reaches of the Argentine church contained many "lost sheep in the wilderness", men who had communed and supported the unspeakably brutal Western-supported military dictatorship which seized power in that country in 1976 and battened on it for years. Not only did the generals slaughter thousands unjustly, often dropping them out of aeroplanes over the River Plate and selling off their orphan children to the highest bidder, they also murdered at least two bishops and many priests. Yet even the execution of other men of the cloth did nothing to shake the support of senior clerics, including representatives of the Holy See, for the criminality of their leader General Jorge Rafael Videla and his minions.


As it happens, in the week before Christmas in the city of Córdoba Videla and some of his military and police cohorts were convicted by their country's courts of the murder of 31 people between April and October 1976, a small fraction of the killings they were responsible for. The convictions brought life sentences for some of the military. These were not to be served, as has often been the case in Argentina and neighbouring Chile, in comfy armed forces retirement homes but in common prisons. Unsurprisingly there was dancing in the city's streets when the judge announced the sentences.


What one did not hear from any senior member of the Argentine hierarchy was any expression of regret for the church's collaboration and in these crimes. The extent of the church's complicity in the dark deeds was excellently set out by Horacio Verbitsky, one of Argentina's most notable journalists, in his book El Silencio (Silence). He recounts how the Argentine navy with the connivance of Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, now the Jesuit archbishop of Buenos Aires, hid from a visiting delegation of the Inter-American Human Rights Commission the dictatorship's political prisoners. Bergoglio was hiding them in nothing less than his holiday home in an island called El Silencio in the River Plate. The most shaming thing for the church is that in such circumstances Bergoglio's name was allowed to go forward in the ballot to chose the successor of John Paul II. What scandal would not have ensued if the first pope ever to be elected from the continent of America had been revealed as an accessory to murder and false imprisonment


One would have thought that the Argentine bishops would have seized the opportunity to call for pardon for themselves and put on sackcloth and ashes as the sentences were announced in Córdoba but that has not so far happened.


But happily Their Eminences have just been given another chance to express contrition. Next month the convicted murderer Videla will be arraigned for his part in the killing of Enrique Angelelli, bishop of the Andean diocese of La Rioja and a supporter of the cause of poorer Argentines. He was run off the highway by a hit squad of the Videla régime and killed on 4th August 1976 shortly after Videla's putsch.


Cardinal Bergoglio has plenty of time to be measured for a suit of sackcloth – perhaps tailored in a suitable clerical grey - to be worn when the church authorities are called into the witness box by the investigating judge in the Angelelli case. Ashes will be readily available if the records of the Argentine bishops' many disingenuous and outrightly mendacious statements about Videla and Angelelli are burned.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/jan/04/argenitina-videla-bergoglio-repentance
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#214 Monty

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:23 PM

Someone who isn't completely against contraception. More tolerance on homosexuality. Someone who will address and tackle the abuse issues instead of completely avoiding them and continuing to cover them up.

Wishful thinking.


Contraception = Agreed.Tackling Abuse Issues = Agreed.Tolerance on Homosexuality = Tricky. It's one thing to ask Catholics/Christians to be tolerant towards homosexuals, loving them as they would any other man or woman. That's absolutely fine. However, if by tolerance you mean agree with their lifestyle, then no, that won't happen. That's in direct conflict to the teachings in scripture.
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Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#215 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:27 PM

Contraception = Agreed.Tackling Abuse Issues = Agreed.Tolerance on Homosexuality = Tricky. It's one thing to ask Catholics/Christians to be tolerant towards homosexuals, loving them as they would any other man or woman. That's absolutely fine. However, if by tolerance you mean agree with their lifestyle, then no, that won't happen. That's in direct conflict to the teachings in scripture.


Uh...maybe in direct conflict to the Old Testament and to what Paul believed but Jesus Christ never said a single word against homosexuality, and there is nothing sans the writings of Paul in the New Testament about it whatsoever.

Edited by Scott Hartnell's Mane, 13 March 2013 - 02:30 PM.

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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#216 Dellins

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:31 PM

Uh...maybe in direct conflict to the Old Testament and to what Paul believed but Jesus Christ never said a single word against homosexuality, and there is nothing sans the writings of Paul in the New Testament about it whatsoever.


Don't disturb the cherry picking.
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#217 Monty

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:34 PM

Uh...maybe in direct conflict to the Old Testament and to what Paul believed but Jesus Christ never said a single word against homosexualioty, and there is nothing sans the writings of Paul in the New Testament about it whatsoever.


There are many things not brought up in the New Testament that were brought up in the Old Testament. Before this thread turns into another "There is no God thread," let me state that I will not get into that. Now, as for your comment, unless something was brought up in the New Testament in regards to the laws of the Old, then it is commonly accepted that those laws hold up. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it. But there it is.
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Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#218 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:37 PM

There are many things not brought up in the New Testament that were brought up in the Old Testament. Before this thread turns into another "There is no God thread," let me state that I will not get into that. Now, as for your comment, unless something was brought up in the New Testament in regards to the laws of the Old, then it is commonly accepted that those laws hold up. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it. But there it is.


Oh let me assure you it's not...but when Jesus said in the New Testament that there is only one commandment...and that being "That ye love one another"...that pretty much negates all the archaic rules in the old testament. Funny how people completely forget about that when they use the Old Testament to further their agendas. So...it's either "There is only one commandment" or it isn't. Either the Old Testament is relevant, or the New Testament replaced it and thereby the New Testament is relevant...or there's a massive contradiction and neither of them are relevant.

Edited by Scott Hartnell's Mane, 13 March 2013 - 02:42 PM.

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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#219 Monty

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:46 PM

Oh let me assure you it's not...but when Jesus said in the New Testament that there is only one commandment...and that being "That ye love one another"...that pretty much negates all the archaic rules in the old testament. Funny how people completely forget about that when they use the Old Testament to further their agendas.


I don't know about you, but I have no problem loving people who's lifestyles, regardless of what that may be, conflict with my beliefs.And you're also off/wrong on that "negating all the 'archaic' rules..." EDIT: Anyway, I've gotta go. Not a Catholic, but congrats to the new Pope!

Edited by Monty, 13 March 2013 - 02:47 PM.

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Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#220 Common sense

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

Oh let me assure you it's not...but when Jesus said in the New Testament that there is only one commandment...and that being "That ye love one another"...that pretty much negates all the archaic rules in the old testament. Funny how people completely forget about that when they use the Old Testament to further their agendas.


Two, actually. You seem to have missed the verse preceding the teaching that "ye love one another"

Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment." - Matt 22:37-38

http://www.biblegate...-38&version=NIV
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#221 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:54 PM

I don't know about you, but I have no problem loving people who's lifestyles, regardless of what that may be, conflict with my beliefs.And you're also off/wrong on that "negating all the 'archaic' rules..."


Oh I am eh? "I say unto you that there is but one commandment: that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." -

Seems fairly cut and dry to me.
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#222 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:55 PM

Two, actually. You seem to have missed the verse preceding the teaching that "ye love one another"

Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment." - Matt 22:37-38

http://www.biblegate...-38&version=NIV


Well...that could be because I recalled it from memory, and a verse is easier to remember than a paragraph there, Flanders.
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#223 G.K. Chesterton

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:26 PM

Oh let me assure you it's not...but when Jesus said in the New Testament that there is only one commandment...and that being "That ye love one another"...that pretty much negates all the archaic rules in the old testament. Funny how people completely forget about that when they use the Old Testament to further their agendas. So...it's either "There is only one commandment" or it isn't. Either the Old Testament is relevant, or the New Testament replaced it and thereby the New Testament is relevant...or there's a massive contradiction and neither of them are relevant.


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“Unbelief is as much of a choice as belief is. What makes it in many ways more appealing is that whereas to believe in something requires some measure of understanding and effort, not to believe doesn't require much of anything at all.” - Frederick Buechner

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#224 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:27 PM

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Typical unhelpful response. Thanks for playing.
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#225 G.K. Chesterton

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:42 PM

Typical unhelpful response. Thanks for playing.


There are three types of laws in the OT: ceremonial, civil and moral. As the Thirty-Nine Articles explains:

VII. Of the Old Testament.
The Old Testament is not contrary to the New: for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to Mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and Man, being both God and Man. Wherefore they are not to be heard, which feign that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the Law given from God by Moses, as touching Ceremonies and Rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the Civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral.


Thus, while Christians are free from the ceremonial and civil law of the OT, we are still under the moral law, which includes the Ten Commandments as well as ordinances against sinful behaviour.
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“Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.” - G.K. Chesterton

“Unbelief is as much of a choice as belief is. What makes it in many ways more appealing is that whereas to believe in something requires some measure of understanding and effort, not to believe doesn't require much of anything at all.” - Frederick Buechner

“All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and the change is painful.” - Flannery O'Connor


“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” - C.S. Lewis

#226 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:44 PM

There are three types of laws in the OT: ceremonial, civil and moral. As the Thirty-Nine Articles explains:



Thus, while Christians are free from the ceremonial and civil law of the OT, we are still under the moral law, which includes the Ten Commandments as well as ordinances against sinful behaviour.



It's just interesting to me that the guy the religion is named after didn't say a ****ing PEEP about homosexuality. Not a word.
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#227 G.K. Chesterton

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:50 PM

It's just interesting to me that the guy the religion is named after didn't say a ****ing PEEP about homosexuality. Not a word.


Jesus was a practicing Jew. He would have followed the OT laws. For instance, he did not speak a word about child sacrifice, but obviously he opposed it because the OT speaks out against it.
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“Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.” - G.K. Chesterton

“Unbelief is as much of a choice as belief is. What makes it in many ways more appealing is that whereas to believe in something requires some measure of understanding and effort, not to believe doesn't require much of anything at all.” - Frederick Buechner

“All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and the change is painful.” - Flannery O'Connor


“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” - C.S. Lewis

#228 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:56 PM

Jesus was a practicing Jew. He would have followed the OT laws. For instance, he did not speak a word about child sacrifice, but obviously he opposed it because the OT speaks out against it.


Obviously he opposed it? Actually...you are inferring that he opposed it because you are inferring that he was a practicing jew who followed ALL of the teachings of the Old Testament. This is the single most important person in the history of the world according to what many believe...and he didn't find it necessary to say...oh yeah...a man shouldn't lie down with another man..or hey...you know...child sacrifice...that's really uncool guys...you shouldnt do that. No...he said absolutely nothing about either of these things...so apparently they weren't important enough or he really didn't care one way or the other. My guess is the latter, and if people really want to be Christ-like, and not just Christians...maybe they ought pay attention more to what Christ said than what he DIDN'T say that is INFERRED because people INSINUATE that he personally stood for everything that was written thousands of years before. Maybe...Maybe not...who knows...it certainly hasn't been tried yet.
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#229 Lulover88

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:09 PM

all i know is that the argentinians are celebrating like they won a world cup or something .. no wonder the rest of south america cant stand them ..
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#230 theminister

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:37 PM

Father Francis.

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Edited by theminister, 13 March 2013 - 04:51 PM.

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#231 theminister

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

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#232 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:41 PM

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I...I ought to see the man Mulcahy...I ought to see the man Mulcahy...I was taught a month ago...to bide my time and take it slow...but then I learned just yesterday...to rush and never waste a day...now I'm convinced the whole day long...that all I've learned is always wrong..and things are true that I forget...but no one taught that to me yet....

Sorry, Pavlovian response I have seen Phish live 20 times....and heard Character Zero over a thousand times...and every time I hear the song...when they mention the man "Mulcahy"...Father Mulcahy...William Christopher...is who immediately pops into my brain...weird.

Edited by Scott Hartnell's Mane, 13 March 2013 - 04:47 PM.

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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#233 aeromotacanucks

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:41 PM

all i know is that the argentinians are celebrating like they won a world cup or something ..  no wonder the rest of south  america cant stand them ..


you don´t have half idea of what we´re dealing. they created a huge problem with England about the Falklands, their economy is almost destroyed, their government is a soft model of Hugo Chaves administration. only the soccer is going well. and now this. well. at least we´re sure that if Argentina keeps irritating England about Falklands the Queen will do something...USA complain about Canada, we have Argentina. what about a change?
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#234 theminister

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:43 PM

you don´t have half idea of what we´re dealing. they created a huge problem with England about the Falklands, their economy is almost destroyed, their government is a soft model of Hugo Chaves administration. only the soccer is going well. and now this. well. at least we´re sure that if Argentina keeps irritating England about Falklands the Queen will do something...USA complain about Canada, we have Argentina. what about a change?


That's

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Edited by theminister, 13 March 2013 - 04:45 PM.

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#235 Sanford

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

Might seem to be from Latin America, "First latin pope, etc." but the man is full Italian.

Edited by Sanford, 13 March 2013 - 04:58 PM.

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#236 nobbiep

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:03 PM

Argenitina??? really?? wow
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#237 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:20 PM

the new pope seems like he's not crazy and seems progressive, but the whole pedophile thing that ish needs to stop


Not really...

http://www.huffingto..._n_2869221.html

Pope Francis is a conservative who is anti-gay marriage and anti-gay adoption. He has described same-sex marriage as the work of the devil and a “destructive attack on God’s plan.” He has also said that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children.


Hes got some appaling views

Edited by Red Light Racicot, 13 March 2013 - 09:26 PM.

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#238 Royal Dudeness

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:23 PM

Same you know what, different pile.

As someone that went to a Catholic school, all these people creep the hell out of me. The Catholic Church should have been toppled years ago with all the crap they've swept under the rug. How do people take this religion seriously considering who's been running it all these years? Some would say I'm trolling here, but this is just how I feel.

If someone I knew told me they had great fondness for the Pope and believed in his divinity, I'd roll my eyes and promptly walk out of the room never to be heard from again.

Who knows, maybe this guy will bring the religion out of the dark ages and into the 1830's. Here's hoping

Edited by Royal Dudeness, 13 March 2013 - 10:24 PM.

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#239 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:38 AM

Same you know what, different pile.

As someone that went to a Catholic school, all these people creep the hell out of me. The Catholic Church should have been toppled years ago with all the crap they've swept under the rug. How do people take this religion seriously considering who's been running it all these years? Some would say I'm trolling here, but this is just how I feel.

If someone I knew told me they had great fondness for the Pope and believed in his divinity, I'd roll my eyes and promptly walk out of the room never to be heard from again.

Who knows, maybe this guy will bring the religion out of the dark ages and into the 1830's. Here's hoping


How does anyone take religion seriously. If I believed in god I certainly would not associate myself with organized religion. What a joke that is.
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#240 nucklehead

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:00 AM

<p>

...every time I hear the song...when they mention the man "Mulcahy"...Father Mulcahy...William Christopher...is who immediately pops into my brain...weird.

Whenever I think the name Mulcahy I hear the word "jockularity" in my brain over and over again...weirder.
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