Nuxfanabroad Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Why not just support the boys? First off, options may still exist with Lu, if we're patient. Imagining in Sept he does indeed turn up. Then let's assume he gets back to playing at a rather high level..Fire, pride & all that. Also let's say 1 or 2 of our other 3 gt's are playing well. He would probably expand his list of destinations to 10-15 teams, one would presume. Any of those teams suffer horrendous 'tending, and/or injury issues-if Lu's playing great at that time, we might land a decent prospect for him. We'd then legitimately be able to claim we do indeed need the guy! Anyways this scenario would be laid out(with gm/owners) to start the season-& may provide extra incentive for Lu to stand on his head from the get-go. Once the games start & our inevitable injuries begin, we may also have some cap-flexibilty(opposing teams, as well). Perhaps we agree to eat 1 mill of Lu's cap for 3-5 seasons. Might enhance the return. Ownership would consider this far more palatable than an amnesty buyout, I'm sure. Now then, is THIS truly so bad? Daniel Henrik Kass Higgs Kes Burr Booth Schroeder Hansen Sestito Richardson/Gaunce Weise Ham Juice Edler Tanev Garr Corrado xtra-Weber, Sneptsy's ghost Luongo Lack (later Eriksson!) Well folks, if it IS so bad, we'll simply turn a few of the older, established pieces into picks/youth near deadline(improving return). Keep the twins, if they accept 20-25% less. Bad yr & miss PO's? Oh well-get a good pick(probably more) next June, to add to our nice collection of younger assets. Cap will rise significantly(predict 72~74 mill for 2014-15); & we'll be active, focused & determined players next summer. Lastly, if the team AND Lu both bomb-at least we'll have our buyout for next summer. We'll also have more info on our other 'tenders by then. So we should stop the frettin'/drama queen-nonsense fer gawdsakes. Patience & balance is in order. This team's given us all a lot of good times/memories-we should appreciate that, AND the fact we've already got some beauts in the pipeline. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Slot Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Why not just support the boys? Firstly, options may still exist with Lu, if we're patient. Imagining in Sept he does indeed turn up. Then let's assume he gets back to playing at a rather high level..Fire, pride & all that. Also let's say 1 or 2 of our other 3 gt's are playing well. He would probably expand his list of destinations to 10-15 teams, one would presume. Any of those teams suffer horrendous 'tending, and/or injury issues-if Lu's playing great at that time, we might land a decent prospect for him. We'd then legitimately be able to claim we do indeed need the guy! Anyways this scenario would be laid out(with gm/owners) to start the season-& may provide extra incentive for Lu to stand on his head from the get-go. Once the games start & our inevitable injuries begin, we may also have some cap-flexibilty(opposing teams, as well). Perhaps we agree to eat 1 mill of Lu's cap for 3-5 seasons. Might enhance the return. Ownership would consider this far more palatable than an amnesty buyout, I'm sure. Now then, is THIS truly so bad? Daniel Henrik Kass Higgs Kes Burr Booth Schroeder Hansen Sestito Richardson/Gaunce Weise Ham Juice Edler Tanev Garr Corrado xtra-Weber, Sneptsy's ghost Luongo Lack (later Eriksson!) Well folks, if it IS so bad, we'll simply turn a few of the older, established pieces into picks/youth near deadline(improving return). Keep the twins, if they accept 20-25% less. Bad yr & miss PO's? Oh well-get a good pick(probably more) next June, to add to our nice collection of younger assets. Cap will rise significantly(predict 72~74 mill for 2014-15); & we'll be active, focused & determined players next summer. Lastly, if the team AND Lu both bomb-at least we'll have our buyout for next summer. We'll also have more info on our other 'tenders by then. So we should stop the frettin'/drama queen-nonsense fer gawdsakes. Patience & balance is in order. This team's given us all a lot of good times/memories-we should appreciate that, AND the fact we've already got some beauts in the pipeline. That is all. 1. MG has not shown he is good at making trades 2. Most if not all of those vets have NTC's 3. If we're moving vets at the deadline, clearly we're out of the playoffs. Why not just gut the team at the draft then and start over? 4. People are upset because we're getting a team that is stuck in the middle, won't win now and isn't preparing to win in the future. Yet Acquilini wants to raise ticket prices? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 ^Well, on your point #4 I'd argue that our last 3 drafts we've collected 4 real nice, sizable, NA(mostly 2-way skaters). I'm not saying MG is the man with the plan; BUT we could rebuild/reload quickly(ala-Ottawa). If we factor in some of our existing talent; paired with some of this youth meeting projections. Hopefully MG learns from some of his previous gaffes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Slot Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 ^Well, on your point #4 I'd argue that our last 3 drafts we've collected 4 real nice, sizable, NA(mostly 2-way skaters). I'm not saying MG is the man with the plan; BUT we could rebuild/reload quickly(ala-Ottawa). If we factor in some of our existing talent; paired with some of this youth meeting projections. Hopefully MG learns from some of his previous gaffes. what did we give up for the 9th pick overpaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounoush Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 what did we give up for the 9th pick overpaid A spare goalie. Calm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 As far as I can see none of us have voiced an intention NOT to support the team. I would say we are all, to a man, behind the team. Don't confuse some of us being disenchanted with Gillis with NOT RABIDLY GETTING BEHIND THE TEAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Slot Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 A spare goalie. Calm down. spare goalie? lol...wow I guess since we have alot of centers in our system we should trade henrik for a #9 and Kesler for a #14 since they are 'spare' centers lol wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounoush Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 spare goalie? lol...wow I guess since we have alot of centers in our system we should trade henrik for a #9 and Kesler for a #14 since they are 'spare' centers lol wow Only 1 goalie can play at a time. Having 2 great goalies is pointless and we got a great future player for him. Calm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 spare goalie? lol...wow I guess since we have alot of centers in our system we should trade henrik for a #9 and Kesler for a #14 since they are 'spare' centers lol wow Lol, Kesler and Henrik aren't spare centers, last I checked 2 goalies can't play in the same game at once, and it made no sense to continue on with two outstanding goalies. If we had a center depth chart of: Henrik Kesler Toews Kopitar Bergeron Giroux Then yes, we would have center depth that is unneeded, but we don't, its not the same situation and its not a good comparable of your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Bodee, There's often a lot of diversity for opinion, here on board-so I may have painted with too broad a brush. I'm tryin to look at this off season- manoeuvring in a positive light. Comparisons are useful for players/teams, eg:people say we're going middle-ground(not good/bad enough) as Calgary has done. I don't subscibe to this thinking, as I believe such notions are based on performance covering a different period of time/era. With the cap, especially new CBA, teams can retool rather rapidly, particularly if they spend efficiently, yet near the cap-limit. You don't HAVE to get dramatically worse(for many seasons) to suddenly sprout up again. I keep thinking our situation will closely resemble Ottawa's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Slot Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Lol, Kesler and Henrik aren't spare centers, last I checked 2 goalies can't play in the same game at once, and it made no sense to continue on with two outstanding goalies. If we had a center depth chart of: Henrik Kesler Toews Kopitar Bergeron Giroux Then yes, we would have center depth that is unneeded, but we don't, its not the same situation and its not a good comparable of your part. it was sarcasm the guy called a goalie who will likely be on the US Olympic team a 'spare' goalie please don't start some ridiculous argument that what we got in return for a future vezina winner was his worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Slot Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Only 1 goalie can play at a time. Having 2 great goalies is pointless and we got a great future player for him. Calm down. glad you can see into the future can you tell me what the winning 6-49 numbers will be tonight please? Schnieder is proven we traded him for a what if? smart deal? hmm don't tell me we got value when other GM's themselves have said they would have offered more. that is fact and on the record. i find it amazing how absurd people can be on this site, simply stating things without even looking at facts, at reality. I heard alot of canucks fans screaming for Kyle Beach the year we took CoHo...he was supposed to be the next Cam Neely. Hmm... point is son, trading certainty and proven players for what ifs, isn't smart given the draft is always a crap shoot. Moreover, given the Sedin's window is about 2 years now, how does trading a player who helps RIGHT NOW (Schnieder) for a player who doesn't help us for another 2-3 years if we're lucky, make us better today? And, If we're not getting better for right now, what are we doing? Shouldn't we be just gutting the team then? Google "stuck in the middle/corporate strategy"..you will read alot about what MG is doing to this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Slot Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Bodee, There's often a lot of diversity for opinion, here on board-so I may have painted with too broad a brush. I'm tryin to look at this off season- manoeuvring in a positive light. Comparisons are useful for players/teams, eg:people say we're going middle-ground(not good/bad enough) as Calgary has done. I don't subscibe to this thinking, as I believe such notions are based on performance covering a different period of time/era. With the cap, especially new CBA, teams can retool rather rapidly, particularly if they spend efficiently, yet near the cap-limit. You don't HAVE to get dramatically worse(for many seasons) to suddenly sprout up again. I keep thinking our situation will closely resemble Ottawa's. I ask you this, has MG proven he can do that? Ballard Booth Luongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 spare goalie? lol...wow I guess since we have alot of centers in our system we should trade henrik for a #9 and Kesler for a #14 since they are 'spare' centers lol wow Lol. Multiple centre's can play, whereas in a game there is ony one goalie. Also, have you considered what Horvat could turn out to be? Perhaps a Toews? Bergeron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I ask you this, has MG proven he can do that? Ballard Booth Luongo Ballard & Booth were acquired via trade. Ballard would actually still be a part of the team if we didn't have a coach who didn't play him. And we struggle with scoring anyways so let's see what Booth can do next year. Lastly, $5.3M avg on Luo isn't bad at all. Considering Howard makes it, I'd take that anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Slot Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Lol. Multiple centre's can play, whereas in a game there is ony one goalie. Also, have you considered what Horvat could turn out to be? Perhaps a Toews? Bergeron? Kyle Beach says hello drafted players aren't sure things buddy, that's my point Everyone on this site thinks every one of our players in our system is going to be a stud Jensen will score 40 Kassian will become Lucic Shinkaruk is a steal and is Patrick Kane 2.0 Horvat is Bergeron on and on folks...we'll be lucky if 1 of those 4 turns into a solid 1/2 line player, that's the point we had certainty of a star, traded it for a what if...that's never a good deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Slot Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Ballard & Booth were acquired via trade. Ballard would actually still be a part of the team if we didn't have a coach who didn't play him. And we struggle with scoring anyways so let's see what Booth can do next year. Lastly, $5.3M avg on Luo isn't bad at all. Considering Howard makes it, I'd take that anyday. yes and part of trading in a cap world involves understanding the cap hit/value of the player to 'spend efficiently' as you said. neither of those players booth or ballard are efficient spends we are in a bind right now bc of MG's poor spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Kyle Beach says hello drafted players aren't sure things buddy, that's my point Everyone on this site thinks every one of our players in our system is going to be a stud Jensen will score 40 Kassian will become Lucic Shinkaruk is a steal and is Patrick Kane 2.0 Horvat is Bergeron on and on folks...we'll be lucky if 1 of those 4 turns into a solid 1/2 line player, that's the point we had certainty of a star, traded it for a what if...that's never a good deal Ok.. the draft was the deepest since '03. Horvat was ranked as high as 4th by some GM's. Scored 16 goals in 21 games to get the OHL MVP. I don't know if it's a guarantee he'll be comparable to a Toews or Bergeron or whatever but he will be a heck of a hockey player. I agree we could've also gotten atleast a roster player in return as well. But keep in mind that we got a steal at #9. Schneider may have been our franchise goalie, but after Luo, we still have Lack+Eriksson. It won't affect our team much, that is a guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 yes and part of trading in a cap world involves understanding the cap hit/value of the player to 'spend efficiently' as you said. neither of those players booth or ballard are efficient spends we are in a bind right now bc of MG's poor spending. fair enough, but not MG's fault. He never knew that Ballard would get benched, or that Booth would be injured fairly often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Slot, I hadn't noticed you were the one who made the preceding topic(questioning Gillis' suitability). It was well-written & presented, & you raise some good questions. It's good if fans/team/ownership discuss this extensively, & consider all options. Pretty reasonable to assume MG is on the hot seat, from this summer forward. At first I really liked his approach, & how it contrasted with BB's. My opinion/rating of his tenure has lessened about 10-20%, each of the past two seasons. Yes, his end may be approaching; or, he might be due for a good turn in fortune... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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