(Discussion) Auston Matthews

[Z Hockey]

I've been thinking a lot and scouting the draft prospects, out of all of them I have a strange feeling Auston Matthews could very well be a massive bust and be specifically Patrik Stefan 2.0. Watching him and the way he plays I definitely see the skill that people say is like Toews, he definitely has that style and I hear that he has the speed for a big guy, great reach, nice hands, smarts, vision. But one thing I look for when scouting a prospect is one big standout strength and I think "is that strength compared to the rest of their game going to get them to the NHL?"

 "How good is that strength when everything else they need to work on gets rounded out or not?" If you look at Matthews traits, 6'1 and 198 isn't actually THAT big at the NHL level, so how hard will he really be to knock off a puck when facing full grown NHL size and some of the really big guys in the 6'3-6'5 range and 205-225 range? 

Then his speed, a lot of players have OK speed and then there's guys that have tremendous top speed after a few strides or first step explosiveness that creates great separation like Crosby, Duchene, Hall, Hagelin, Larkin, Etem. So how good will his speed be at the NHL level, then his hands, visions, smarts which many players have, maybe he will just have average size and speed at the NHL level and be just another

Mikko Koivu?   In regards to Matthews as Patrik Stefan 2.0 that makes sense to me as a bust comparison, they both were centres this hyped, and both have the same frame and fundamentals,   IMO the steals/ones who pan out to their ceiling will be  Puljujarvi, Fabbro, and Max Jones to name a few.

[Gstank29]

And this is where I tell you, you are crazy. Especially with that list at the bottom

[SedinMadness]

why bother with this topic... the way we are winning we won't even be close to the number one pick...

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, Gstank29 said:

And this is where I tell you, you are crazy. Especially with that list at the bottom

I would argue, but seeing as I argued with you before that I'm trying out for Junior B this year and have trained with BCHL players, and you then told me you're a goaltender who's trained with Colton Gillies and others, I won't. Well I will Lol,  you know a lot as well but I'm crazy for this? No I think this is a fair assessment, people could have said the same thing to people who doubted Patrik Stefan and Alex Daigle. I think he could easily be a bust, and I've done a lot of research on the draft prospects, I think Fabbros multi angle agility in his skating and smart 2-way game will take him far. IMO Max Jones will surprise out of all the power wingers, and saying Puljujarvi will surprise is easy, he has arguably the biggest offensive upside in the draft... No brainer with him

[Z Hockey]

20 minutes ago, SedinMadness said:

why bother with this topic... the way we are winning we won't even be close to the number one pick...

Why bother? Because in case you haven't noticed on this forum, we discuss the entire NHL and not just Vancouver

[Nuxfanabroad]

I'm concerned that he resembles Auston Powers.

[Gstank29]

I don't think you can labe Puljujarvi as a steal since he is rated so highly to start out with.

 

Fabbro is rated where he is because of his skating ability, despite that I have seen him get beat to the outside a couple of times, which would make you question his gap control. His offensive game isn't anything special which is why I say he wouldn't be considered a steal. he will most likely be a top 4 defenseman but beside his skating he doesn't have any qualities that really stick out

 

Jones is a huge project, he isn't even a PPG in his draft year playing on one of the best teams in junior. IMO his weakness is his overall hockey IQ (something people because bash Virtanen one but in reality he does have the hockey IQ.) Jones hockey IQ is down right horrible. I can't think of a good comparison for him but something like Tom Wilson is probably where he will end up.

 

Matthews is nothing like Stefan. First off Stefan wasn't even considered the best player in his draft year, the Sedins were. Secondly Stefan was in what was known as one of the weakest drafts in NHL history, while Matthews draft has one of the strongest top 3s in recent history. Finally Matthews put up a 1.5ppg against men, something that is unheard of for a 18 year old.

[Harvey Spector]

Auston Matthews is nothing like Patrik Stefan. Not even in the same stratosphere.  I watched him play and he was awful.

 

Patrick Stefan was the number one overall pick in one of the weakest drafts in modern history. Burke got it right by maneuvering to get both Sedins in that draft. They were the only two players worth taking in the first round other than Havlat and Jackman. 

 

This upcoming draft has 3 potential franchise players not to mention a dozen other highly rated players. And Matthews stands above them all. 

 

 

[McBackup]

I think Matthews looks pretty damn good. 

 

But I'll take your evaluation as a professional scout into consideration.

[Z Hockey]

3 minutes ago, Gstank29 said:

I don't think you can labe Puljujarvi as a steal since he is rated so highly to start out with.

 

Fabbro is rated where he is because of his skating ability, despite that I have seen him get beat to the outside a couple of times, which would make you question his gap control. His offensive game isn't anything special which is why I say he wouldn't be considered a steal. he will most likely be a top 4 defenseman but beside his skating he doesn't have any qualities that really stick out

 

Jones is a huge project, he isn't even a PPG in his draft year playing on one of the best teams in junior. IMO his weakness is his overall hockey IQ (something people because bash Virtanen one but in reality he does have the hockey IQ.) Jones hockey IQ is down right horrible. I can't think of a good comparison for him but something like Tom Wilson is probably where he will end up.

 

Matthews is nothing like Stefan. First off Stefan wasn't even considered the best player in his draft year, the Sedins were. Secondly Stefan was in what was known as one of the weakest drafts in NHL history, while Matthews draft has one of the strongest top 3s in recent history. Finally Matthews put up a 1.5ppg against men, something that is unheard of for a 18 year old.

You do your homework as well Gstank, man you're good. Albeit with Stefan one coach of his called him a combination of Modano and Sergei Fedorov, he was also actually over a point per game in the then IHL, and scouts and people said the same kind of thing about him as they do about Matthews,    quote on quotes about Stefan "Big, strong, playmaker"  

"He's a guy that will score 100

assists and 25 goals in the NHL".   So Stefan was hyped about as much as Matthews is, maybe not projected the best player in the 1999 draft but hyped more then you're saying.    About Fabbro, that's extremely common for young defenders to be beaten to the outside and have to work on their game in their own zone, but he's smart all over. Look at Kris Letang, his skating is a huge reason why he is the blueliner he is.

[Z Hockey]

17 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I'm concerned that he resembles Auston Powers.

Yeah I know what you mean...........  Some games he shags and other games he doesn't shag LOL

[Dazzle]

I get that Stefan turned out to be a pretty bad pick, but there were numerous reasons why Stefan WAS considered a 'can't miss' pick. They ultimately were wrong, in hindsight.

 

He didn't have a horrible career overall, but it was certainly underwhelming as a number one pick, especially being overshadowed by the Sedins and other first round picks. This is not taking into account that empty net incident which was downright embarrassing.

 

 

 

 

[Z Hockey]

4 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

I love how you included Etem's name along side Crosby, Duchene and Hall's 

I never said they were the same player, all those players can do a lot of different things, I was isolating speed in each of them. Hagelin is probably the fastest first step player and Etem was traded for him and I had them both on that list together so...

[Z Hockey]

6 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I get that Stefan turned out to be a pretty bad pick, but there were numerous reasons why Stefan WAS considered a 'can't miss' pick. They ultimately were wrong, in hindsight.

 

He didn't have a horrible career overall, but it was certainly underwhelming as a number one pick, especially being overshadowed by the Sedins and other first round picks. This is not taking into account that empty net incident which was downright embarrassing.

 

 

 

 

Yup they were wrong, just like they could be wrong about Matthews.

[TheRealFan]

Nothing in you're post supports your claim that he'll be a bust. 

 

You brought up his size which happens to be pretty good.

Crosby  Height 5.11 -- Weight 200

MacKinnon  Height 6.00 -- Weight 195

Hopkins  Height 6.00 -- Weight 189

Hall Height 6.01 -- Weight 201

Matthews Height 6.02 -- Weight 194

 

You say he is a center and is hyped like Stefan but isn't every first overall pick? I don't even see that much Matthews hype because he's playing outside of the North American spotlight. 

 

All I see is a bunch of maybes which you can say about ANY draft pick. Matthews has a proven track record anywhere he has played. Your feeling is just a feeling.

[Nuxfanabroad]

29 minutes ago, Z Hockey said:

Yeah I know what you mean...........  Some games he shags and other games he doesn't shag LOL

Or like Mini-Me..just humpin' the lazer.

[Harvey Spector]

Alexander Daigle was hyped much more than Stefan. As a matter of fact Ottawa was accused of deliberately "tanking" in order to get the first pick to draft Daigle. It was because of Daigle that the draft lottery was originally set up to deter teams from tanking. Quebec wanted him so bad they offered up a package that included Forsberg to try and get the first pick from Ottawa. 

 

The point is Daigle had a couple of good years like Stefan but was ultimately a bust and so was Stefan.  Matthews is also being hyped big time but he's playing against men and he is being coached by a guy who has coached hall of famers. If Crow says Matthews is the real deal then there is a good possibility that he is. It's not a guarantee but I think it is as sure a bet as you will get. 

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, Bitter Melon said:

I think Matthews looks pretty damn good. 

 

But I'll take your evaluation as a professional scout into consideration.

You're so funny man....

[Z Hockey]

39 minutes ago, TheRealFan said:

Nothing in you're post supports your claim that he'll be a bust. 

 

You brought up his size which happens to be pretty good.

Crosby  Height 5.11 -- Weight 200

MacKinnon  Height 6.00 -- Weight 195

Hopkins  Height 6.00 -- Weight 189

Hall Height 6.01 -- Weight 201

Matthews Height 6.02 -- Weight 194

 

You say he is a center and is hyped like Stefan but isn't every first overall pick? I don't even see that much Matthews hype because he's playing outside of the North American spotlight. 

 

All I see is a bunch of maybes which you can say about ANY draft pick. Matthews has a proven track record anywhere he has played. Your feeling is just a feeling.

My claims actually do support it, read again, 6'2 and not even 200 is not overly thick in the NHL, he needs filling out. I broke down every aspect of his game so it's not exactly a bunch of maybes.

[Z Hockey]

36 minutes ago, Harvey Spector said:

Alexander Daigle was hyped much more than Stefan. As a matter of fact Ottawa was accused of deliberately "tanking" in order to get the first pick to draft Daigle. It was because of Daigle that the draft lottery was originally set up to deter teams from tanking. Quebec wanted him so bad they offered up a package that included Forsberg to try and get the first pick from Ottawa. 

 

The point is Daigle had a couple of good years like Stefan but was ultimately a bust and so was Stefan.  Matthews is also being hyped big time but he's playing against men and he is being coached by a guy who has coached hall of famers. If Crow says Matthews is the real deal then there is a good possibility that he is. It's not a guarantee but I think it is as sure a bet as you will get. 

It really was a ridiculous offer like Sundin and Hextall too to get Daigle, he never took his talents to the next level because of excessive partying early in his career.