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Wanless

(Proposal) Offseason moves

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Posted (edited)

Brock Boeser is due to get a big pay day after next season, but, he has no arbitration rights and basically will only need to be qualified. Im thinking he may stay equal or regress slightly next year, but that he will be worth at least the same Bo.

 

However, in two years I’m sure he will increase production to a point per game scoring around 40 goals. This would be worth closer to 8 mil give or take.

 

From a management point of view, shooting for a 4 x 2 bridge deal is the best for both the team and Brock, as he can then go on to prove he’s worth that 7-8 milx7 this also allows the team some more cap space until elder and Sutter are off the books and hopefully Eriksson is picked up at the Expansion draft, leaving lots of room for maturing players to earn their pay days

 

Here’s what I’ve come up with

 

trade 

columbus gets

Hutton and Baertchi and 2nd

 

Vancouver gets

Markus Nutivaara, final year of entry level 

 

Trade rights to granlund for picks

 

Vancouver signs

Evander Kane 6.5 mil x 5 limited no trade

John Tavares 12 x 5

Jake Virtanen 1.8 x 2

pouliot 2.3 x 2

stetcher 1.5 x 2

Archibald 1 x 3

 

that leaves the roster looking like

 

Kane, Tavares, Boeser

Dahlin, Horvat, Pettersson 

Leipsic, Sutter, Ericksson

Virtanen, Gaudette, Archibald

Gaunce

 

Nutivaara, Tanev

Edler, Gudbranson

Del zotto, stetcher

Pouliot, Biega

 

cap hit

73,833,333

 

and with the cap moving up to potentially 82 mil there could be 6 mil in room

 

the following year 2019/2020 we see edler come off the books allowing for 5 mil more and possibly trading MDZ at next years trade deadline gaining a pick or prospect and then having juolevi step up

 

more than actually thinking that all this could happen, but actually seeing that the numbers work to sign major names like Kane and Tavares and leave room for the big raises coming up. And to get excited this team could push very hard to get passed the first round

 

what do you all think?

 

Edited by Wanless
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?!?! Sorry I havent seen much for Markus Nutivaara, is he really that good? Otherwise I feel its a huge over payment for us. Then I kinda laughed about Evander Kane and John Tavares. And I doubt you will get Stecher for 1.5 x 2, his value is higher than this.

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57 minutes ago, CaptainKool said:

?!?! Sorry I havent seen much for Markus Nutivaara, is he really that good? Otherwise I feel its a huge over payment for us. Then I kinda laughed about Evander Kane and John Tavares. And I doubt you will get Stecher for 1.5 x 2, his value is higher than this.

He’s been floating between 3rd and second pairing d but, trending up. Has a positive Corsi and 53% o zone starts, he has 19 points and 17 of them are even strength and is a plus 7 in 54 games this pro rates to 29 points this season which is his second season. Half of his shot attempts hit the net.

 

he needs to work on give aways but only has 18, Hutton on the other hand has 39 this season. Although Hutton does have more take aways but from what I’ve seen give aways kill us

 

 

I also thought 1.5 might be too low, but it’s tough with him. He’s good but has a hard time handling bigger guys and doesn’t put up points

 

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I was trying to figure out why you wanted to save the cap space on Boeser. Then I saw Tavares and Kane and I laughed. They both want to play in the playoffs. Vancouver isn't on their radars.

 

Boeser was already on pass for 40 goals and was fairly close to a ppg. He is still the Canucks leaders in goals and points this year. I'm pretty sure that unless he really regresses next year he'll get more than 4 million a year

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The closest comparable to Boeser I could find was Kucherov. Kucherovs first year wasn't very impressive. His second and third years were better though. Second year 29 goals and 65 points in 82 games. Third year 30 goals and 66 points in 77 games. Mind you Kucherov did this playing on a much more offensively gifted team.

 

Kucherovs signed a 4.766 million per year deal for 3 years after that. It made sense for Tampa as they are trying to contend and having the low cap hit has helped them.

 

The Canucks are not competing and aren't close to competing. Signing Boeser to a bridge deal is a terrible idea unless his play really drops off next year

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24 minutes ago, HockeydownUnder said:

I was trying to figure out why you wanted to save the cap space on Boeser. Then I saw Tavares and Kane and I laughed. They both want to play in the playoffs. Vancouver isn't on their radars.

 

Boeser was already on pass for 40 goals and was fairly close to a ppg. He is still the Canucks leaders in goals and points this year. I'm pretty sure that unless he really regresses next year he'll get more than 4 million a year

After next year he’s an RFA, I’m not saying he is only worth 4 million. Im suggesting that he gets 4 x 2 to allow more cap to clear in those 2 years and then pay him closer to 8. The reason being is he has no bargaining power except to not sign at all.

 

However, I do see what you’re getting at and that’s using this opportunity to lock him up longer term for around 6 mil?

 

As for Tavares and Kane, they would both be coming to a franchise that can and will spend to the cap. And having these players come in would do wonders for the teams success in my opinion. Having an 80 first line centre with 70 and 60 point wingers and the a second line with a 60 point centre with two top Swedish players.

 

Its a pipe dream, but wouldn’t that be nice

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Wanless said:

After next year he’s an RFA, I’m not saying he is only worth 4 million. Im suggesting that he gets 4 x 2 to allow more cap to clear in those 2 years and then pay him closer to 8. The reason being is he has no bargaining power except to not sign at all.

 

However, I do see what you’re getting at and that’s using this opportunity to lock him up longer term for around 6 mil?

 

As for Tavares and Kane, they would both be coming to a franchise that can and will spend to the cap. And having these players come in would do wonders for the teams success in my opinion. Having an 80 first line centre with 70 and 60 point wingers and the a second line with a 60 point centre with two top Swedish players.

 

Its a pipe dream, but wouldn’t that be nice

 

 

 

 

Yeah I'll agree it be pretty nice to have Tavares. I think they go to a team that's already in the run for playoffs so they can hope to put them over the top.

 

Might be a bit more than 6 million to lock up Brock long term if he has another season like this one. I think it's money well spent though. By the time the Canucks are ready to compete, his cap hit will be a steal. Once Pettersson and others start making the show, the Canucks can look to attract top ufa's in the hope of chasing a cup

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not going to respond to the mega changes

just wondering why pouliot deserves a larger contract then stetcher in your view ?

why would signing stetcher for 1.5 million be reasonable when hutton was signed for considerably more

stetcher is clearly better then pouliot and is better then hutton

 

so that is what i got out of your post that piqued my curiosity

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3 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

not going to respond to the mega changes

just wondering why pouliot deserves a larger contract then stetcher in your view ?

why would signing stetcher for 1.5 million be reasonable when hutton was signed for considerably more

stetcher is clearly better then pouliot and is better then hutton

 

so that is what i got out of your post that piqued my curiosity

Mainly because I see Stecher get out worked. Ill agree that Stecher is the better player, but his effectiveness is diminished by his smaller size. I kinda view Stecher a little like biega, both players would have great careers if they were 3-4 inches taller and 15-20 pounds heavier, especially because they are big point producers

 

Pouliot has shown he has great upside, he skates well with the puck in the o zone and has the third most points by a dman on the team, has the second highest ppp for dman and he isn’t small. His biggest issue is he gives the puck away too much, much like Hutton and I believe this is the area in which Stecher is the better player, although this could be a lack or breakdown of systems

 

Hutton, well he is definitely our worst dman

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19 minutes ago, HockeydownUnder said:

Yeah I'll agree it be pretty nice to have Tavares. I think they go to a team that's already in the run for playoffs so they can hope to put them over the top.

 

Might be a bit more than 6 million to lock up Brock long term if he has another season like this one. I think it's money well spent though. By the time the Canucks are ready to compete, his cap hit will be a steal. Once Pettersson and others start making the show, the Canucks can look to attract top ufa's in the hope of chasing a cup

The thing about Tavares going to a playoff team is they can’t really afford him. The canucks have the roster space the cap space and a bright future which in my opinion can start to show it self truly in the 2019-2020 year with the addition of Juolevi and hopefully a dman from this years draft as well as continually supplementing the roster with ELCs in Lind Gadj and other later round gems Benning finds

 

Kane, well he has more options to choose from while signing for the salary hes after

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Wanless said:

The thing about Tavares going to a playoff team is they can’t really afford him. The canucks have the roster space the cap space and a bright future which in my opinion can start to show it self truly in the 2019-2020 year with the addition of Juolevi and hopefully a dman from this years draft as well as continually supplementing the roster with ELCs in Lind Gadj and other later round gems Benning finds

 

Kane, well he has more options to choose from while signing for the salary hes after

There are a couple playoff teams that can sign Tavares without making any deals. A lot of other teams can unload a bad contract to fit him in.

The figures I have come up with don't include the cap going up. It is expected to go up by 3-8 million next year.

Vegas Golden Knights have 27.5 million free next year. They have to resign Neal, Karlsson and Perron. They can quite easily fit all 3 plus Tavares and still have cap space remaining.

New Jersey Devils have nearly 21 million available next year. They will likely resign Grabner and possibly Maroon. If neither are resigned, someone will have to be signed in their place. That leaves them a lot of cap space to work with.

Neither team has prospects due big raises in the near future and would be able to take him on. A lot of other teams could take Tavares now and then make a deal to be cap compliant. That's with how the cap is now. With an extra 3-8 million next year most teams could quite easily make a deal and fit Tavares. It really is up to him where he wants to go.

We do have a very bright future, but Tavares has been promised that for awhile now. I think he wants to compete sooner than later.
 

Edited by HockeydownUnder

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Tavares is not coming here. Period. Kane, maybe. But very likely is not coming here either. Guy is not going to more rebuilding teams. He was with Atlanta, Winnipeg when they sucked, Buffalo. Wouldn't be surprised if he just stays in San Jose. Both players probably stay put.

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5 hours ago, HockeydownUnder said:

We do have a very bright future, but Tavares has been promised that for awhile now. I think he wants to compete sooner than later.

Difference being that anyone who understands the prospect pool we have can appreciate that we really WILL have a good team in short order. I'm not suggesting Tavares is the right fit or even worth the money he would command as a UFA... only that if he took the time to delve into the details of our club, he could probably see the value in where we are going. The Islanders are in real bad shape right now, and I just don't see them emerging as a contender any time in the next few years - with or without Tavares.

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3 hours ago, kloubek said:

Difference being that anyone who understands the prospect pool we have can appreciate that we really WILL have a good team in short order. I'm not suggesting Tavares is the right fit or even worth the money he would command as a UFA... only that if he took the time to delve into the details of our club, he could probably see the value in where we are going. The Islanders are in real bad shape right now, and I just don't see them emerging as a contender any time in the next few years - with or without Tavares.

If the islanders don’t do something big now to assure moving forward they won’t be able to hold on to Tavares 

 

they have to be very careful however as they will have to pay up for Barzal as well in 3 years

 

not too sure of who they have for defensive prospects but their d is getting older and expensive for those 2 aging players, and like Tavares they also can’t sit through a rebuild/retool cycle

 

theres been some chatter on CDC using this predicament to get high value for tanev

 

basically I see the islander to use any picks and prospects to solidify their roster and ending up in the same boat as the canucks these passed 5 years, or to move on from Tavares and build a team around Barzal moving forward such as dealing Tavares’s negotiation rights to a team for picks/prospects and moving Leddy to a team that can afford a good prospect and picks

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17 minutes ago, Wanless said:

basically I see the islander to use any picks and prospects to solidify their roster and ending up in the same boat as the canucks these passed 5 years, or to move on from Tavares and build a team around Barzal moving forward such as dealing Tavares’s negotiation rights to a team for picks/prospects and moving Leddy to a team that can afford a good prospect and picks

They have a few good young roster players. Pulok looks to be settling into an NHL role just fine, and Toews is looking decent but jury is still out there.  They also have a handful of decent prospects on d, but nobody earth shattering as far as I know. On forward position though I believe they are light on good prospects. Ho Sang has major issues, and there's not much else past that.  Then there is their goaltending that absolutely blows - and Sorokin is a ways off from being an NHL goalie, if ever. I just don't see them being in contending shape even with Tavares in a couple of years, and he's not getting any younger; I'm sure he'd like to try to win a cup before he starts to decline.

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Posted (edited)

We could offer Tavares league max and he stilll wouldn’t come here. Much rather continue to build through the draft anyways. Signing superstar free agents is the way to make the playoffs, building through the draft is how to win championships 

Edited by canucksrock!88
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On 2018-03-20 at 6:55 AM, kloubek said:

They have a few good young roster players. Pulok looks to be settling into an NHL role just fine, and Toews is looking decent but jury is still out there.  They also have a handful of decent prospects on d, but nobody earth shattering as far as I know. On forward position though I believe they are light on good prospects. Ho Sang has major issues, and there's not much else past that.  Then there is their goaltending that absolutely blows - and Sorokin is a ways off from being an NHL goalie, if ever. I just don't see them being in contending shape even with Tavares in a couple of years, and he's not getting any younger; I'm sure he'd like to try to win a cup before he starts to decline.

Yeah the Islanders can't seem to get it together. Barzal has looked great and they have a couple other ok pieces but overall they aren't heading in a good direction. If Tavares walks for nothing their franchise is doomed for mediocrity.

 

I think the Canucks are in a position to start contending in 2-4 years. If Pettersson is as good as he projects and Gaudette can become a strong 3rd C for us, we might end up with one one of the best center groups in the league.

We have great wing prospect depth and Demko looks like he can be a starting goalie. All the Canucks need to do is to strengthen up the defense on both sides and we can move into contender status

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14 hours ago, HockeydownUnder said:

Yeah the Islanders can't seem to get it together. Barzal has looked great and they have a couple other ok pieces but overall they aren't heading in a good direction. If Tavares walks for nothing their franchise is doomed for mediocrity.

 

I think the Canucks are in a position to start contending in 2-4 years. If Pettersson is as good as he projects and Gaudette can become a strong 3rd C for us, we might end up with one one of the best center groups in the league.

We have great wing prospect depth and Demko looks like he can be a starting goalie. All the Canucks need to do is to strengthen up the defense on both sides and we can move into contender status

Agreed on pretty much all accounts.

 

I feel the Islanders need to let Tavares go (might not be their choice) and rebuild around Barzal - who, as you pointed out, looks great. They need to get their tank on for a few years and amass good prospects.

As for us, I agree - we won't be very good next season but should be noticeably better the year following.  Probably not contenders in our 2nd year unless every star aligns, but it won't be long after that. As you hinted at, Benning really needs to work on our D though, as we aren't going to win a single round until our defense can contribute on the scoresheet. I think defensively we are ok, and our goals against are largely due to spending too much time in our own zone and our crappy goaltending.

 

Best centers?  Overall, I agree that is entirely possible.  When you have Sutter as your 4th line center, you know you have pretty good depth there. I do believe Pettersson will almost certainly be a #1 center, though the jury is out as to how elite he will be. I'm more reserved with Gaudette, but he certainly has been tearing it up in the lesser leagues.

I sure hope Demko pans out as hoped. It's an uphill struggle for any team to contend if they have bad goaltending - even if they have solid forwards and blueline.

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NYI and Tavares officially eliminated from the playoffs by Florida 3-0.

Tavares looked dangerous but to no avail. Wonder what he thinks about leaving now, no playoffs for him.

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3 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

NYI and Tavares officially eliminated from the playoffs by Florida 3-0.

Tavares looked dangerous but to no avail. Wonder what he thinks about leaving now, no playoffs for him.

I'm thinking he wants to play in the playoffs. The Islanders are going to have to make a serious pitch to convince him to stay. Signing a top 4 defensemen isn't going to cut it. They need to acquire a good goalie, a top pairing defensemen such as Oliver Ekman - Larsson and another top 4 defensemen.

 

The Islanders are 7th in scoring in the league. That should get them into the playoffs. If they weren't going to make use of Tavares during his prime years then they should have dealt him. Now they risk losing him for nothing over the summer.

 

If I was Tavares, I'd leave.

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