Maniwaki Canuck
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Posts posted by Maniwaki Canuck
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So Kadri is off the market and provides another relevant contract data point, one that is lower than Zibanejad, Forsberg or Hertl. But it doesn't create any more cap space around the league, or start off an arms race where a competitive team falls behind its rivals as "has" to get JT. I'm not sure this brings us any closer to a re-signing or a trade, but I'd love to be wrong.
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So if they really haven't talked since the draft, what happens next? Do the two sides talk again before the season starts? Does Miller's agent announce publicly that they won't negotiate during the season? If certainly feels like a game of chicken.
That JT interview with Scott was great. On the one hand, I don't know how anyone can doubt that he wants to stay, but on the other, I don't know how anyone can be optimistic that they're close to a deal. It doesn't change the fact that Miller is a class act, though. I hope management handles this situation to the same high standard.
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11 minutes ago, DeNiro said:
Why do you think Florida was willing to trade Huberdeau though?
Perhaps they already know he only wants to sign with the Habs?
This deal keeps Calgary competitive for next season but we’ll see about the long term.
Has to be something like this: otherwise it clearly goes against the leverage they should have had against Calgary.
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27 minutes ago, aGENT said:
They only care about it in that they get their total dollars divided by whatever term, which happens to equal their AAV. That's not what you were suggesting.
I was just commenting on how Miller's agent is framing the discussion and looking where a compromise solution might fall given what has been reported. Clearly there is going to be a higher AAV on a 6 versus an 8 year deal but they may not result in the same total dollars. So yeah, for the record I do reject the idea that total dollars is all players care about, even though it obviously matters front and center. Players who want to maximize career earnings should always want higher AAV and lower term within a package for a given amount of money so they have a chance to earn another contract in the twilight of their careers. 6 years @ 8 mil is better than 8 years @ 6 mil even though they both yield 48 mil for the player (this is just an example and I expect the total dollars to be higher for Miller). The difference is that he has two years left at the end where he might earn a bit more. Not to mention the potential advantage of getting more money up front and investing it. Players definitely care about that too and it does factor into negotiations.
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42 minutes ago, aGENT said:
No, teams care about AAV. Players/agents don't care. All they care about is total dollars.
3/4 of $60m is $45m. Or a $15m difference. That's not "close" in any way, shape or form.
And AAV factors into total dollars, so as a matter of basic logic, players care about it too, although not for quite the same reason as clubs.
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1 hour ago, aGENT said:
Players/their agents could give a flying &^@# about AAV. All they care about is total money. $8-something mil x 5-6 years is MILES off $8-something mil x 8 years.
Agreed about the arithmetic. But obviously AAV matters to the club and the player as part of the equation. If they're already offering 6 years at some agreed amount that is 3/4 of the way to the amount on an 8 year deal, which might be why the agent is making conciliatory noises about a pathway to a deal. Anyway, I was trying to avoid the usual bluster about what is right or wrong for the club here, what Miller will or won't accept and focus in on what the offer might have been.
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I'm wondering what the Canucks' offer to Miller was, supposedly just before the draft. Miller's agent said that they were still some ways apart on term, but seemed to imply that AAV was not a sticking point. MacIntyre seems to accept that framework and guesses that they've offered Miller 6 years:
I'm going to guess that they've agreed on something like 8 mil AAV and are fighting it out over 6-8 years. The obvious compromise would be 7 years @ 8 mil but maybe 6 years @ 8.5. We all know what the range of opinion on this board is about whether or not a deal in that range would be good for the club. But all that aside, there's still the question of what's on the table. What do people think?
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Wow, says a lot about how little cap room is available in the league right now.
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47 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:
It's not perfect but having 1 year left we aint in the hotseat yet! Mid off season pre-arbitration hearings... loots of time. Pressure is more on other teams having to fill out their rosters. We can pretty much stand pat and go into next season ( hopefully that's not the case lol )
For sure. Right now, it looks like a game of chicken between management and Miller's camp about who's more worried about going into the season without an extension. If there aren't great trade offers for Miller, what are his realistic prospects in free agency next year? Kadri's comparable will matter too, of course.
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36 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:
I think part of it is the basic respect this player, agent and team all have for eachother. This helps ease any sort of JG MT like drama.. allowing us to get a good return if we move on from him. Agent says nah we are walking to UFA. Who's going to give us any value in a trade. We would be no different that Calgary and wpg.
Shows JTs character. Even though this team allowed Green and Co to cause as much harm as possible... He still gives a s#^t. Good sign honestly.
Beautiful British Columbia strikes again! Ain't no frozen tundra of Manitoba, or the Sulfur fields of Alberta
Could be but there's a limit to how much any theater from JT's agent or Allvin is really going to change the club's leverage if it comes down to a trade. If they can't sign him they'll have to trade him, which necessarily means showing your hand to other teams. There's no real stealth option here.
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33 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:
Considering he couldn’t sign until the 13th
Hey, never let the facts get in the way of a good narrative or the 5-D chess that our resident geniuses are playing.
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1 hour ago, Provost said:
His agent also said they don’t believe that players decline as they age, so that shouldn’t be assumed in a Miller contract.
That is objectively a lie, so maybe believing what agents say in the press isn’t the best plan? They have zero requirement to be truthful.
Sure, maybe there is some price that Miller would sign for… but that doesn’t negate the concept of him really wanting to play near home.
Let's not over-think this. If JT absolutely wasn't interested in re-signing here and wanted to expedite a move closer to home, wouldn't he just say that, perhaps privately? For sure nobody is obliged to be truthful in what they say publicly, but at the same time, you don't get what you want by endlessly hiding what that is when you need agreement from another party. To me, it looks like the agent is saying "let's get on with resolving this, one way or the other" and I don't see anything particularly dark or manipulative in that.
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2 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:
Would be interesting to know what the offer from Vancouver is.
And, how much we're offering to Horvat. I'm thinking if we can nail Horvat down for 8 years at 7 per, 49 million total.
We'd all like to know. Horvat at 8 x 7 mill would be fair to both sides. With Miller it's not so simple.
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7 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:
Okay, don't think anyone has posted this yet, if so, apologies for clogging up the thread with unnecessary posts... Wait, let me think of what I just said for a moment....
Okay, moving on...
Miller's agent see's path to extension with Canucks:
https://www.tsn.ca/jt-miller-vancouver-canucks-contract-extension-1.1827501
Okay, there it is from his agent's mouth: he'd like to re-sign in Vancouver but at the right price. So is that enough for all the mind-readers who were so sure he wanted to go back to the US? Of course that could still happen, but if so it will be about the money, not because he didn't want to stay here. Heads are going to explode if (and I think when) he re-signs here.
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2 hours ago, Trebreh said:
They just had one of their best seasons in franchise history and now their core players are jumping ship Hahaha! something must be rotten inside that locker room, I love it.
I hope they get an underwhelming return when they trade the rat, we don’t want the fLames to go on a full rebuild.
Yeah, the Jolly Rancher sure sets a positive emotional tone inside that room. But hey, they can't claim they didn't know what they were getting with him, so they've made their bed and now they can lie in it. This is going to be a bigger train wreck than what happens to those poor horses in their check wagon races.
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It's going to be fun watching full on meltdown in Calgary over the coming year. Be prepared for exploding heads and mullet fragments launching in all directions.
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12 minutes ago, Jester13 said:
We could've brought up Rathbone if injury hit, or put someone else on their off side, especially when the chances of us making the playoffs was a pipe dream. PA has been saying this whole time that cap space is premium, yet traded for a redundant piece when he could've had an extra 1.5m to help lock guys in for longer. Petey could've very well have signed an 8X8.5 deal with that extra space. I digress.
Getting rid of Dermott wouldn't free up the full 1.5 M he makes: you'd have to subtract the salary of his replacement from that amount. And we re-signed Petey before acquiring Dermott, so he's not the reason why Benning didn't get a long term deal done there.
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1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:
I highly doubt they bury Dickinson. NHL clubs don't operate like that. He's 27 and an established NHLer with 300 games under his belt in the middle of a three year deal.
That is one scenario that would actually stop players from signing in Van. One tough year in that sh!t show season and a support player gets dumped. Not a good look if you're signing guys like Joshua, and/or especially a guy like Lazar to a three year deal. I'd be hesitant knowing the Canucks might dump me because their management is too dumb to understand how cap works.
I agree that they probably won't bury Dickenson. But they could temporarily paper him down at the beginning of the season as part of becoming cap compliant, then immediately bring him up. If someone claims him on waivers, so much the better. But management does need to do anything possible to bank cap.
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Is it really surprising that there's currently no deal available for JT with Kadri still on the market and with Paccioretty and a sweetener going for future considerations yesterday? Trades are more likely once these freebe acquisitions have been made. Pittsburgh is still an obvious partner with the JT connection there, their commitment to winning with an aging core and the fact that they're overstocked on D (like we are at F). Beyond that, contending teams could look at him as a year-long rental, especially if we retain 50%. There are still ways to move him this summer.
If management really is committed to re-signing him, they must have some reason to think it's possible. I doubt they've made their best offer one day into a 365 day window. And there is some pressure on JT to go into the year with a retirement contract already in place. Everyone talks about the club's risk that he might get injured before the trading deadline, but it's also a risk for JT going into free agency. After a career year, he'll never be in a better bargaining position than he is right now, so he has that incentive to sign as well.
Despite all the "insider" hot air, we basically have no idea what trade offers there have been or where the re-signing negotiations are at. This management group isn't stupid so I don't expect them to bite on a lowball offer or grossly overpay to keep him. They're keeping their nerves in check and so should we.
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I watched him play in Ottawa a couple of times when they were truly, horrendously bad. They had him in what looked like a middle pairing role and he wasn't bad, but asked to do way too much. Decent skating and awareness but withered a bit under a hard forecheck. Seems like a good depth option who could handle bottom pairing minutes with a competent partner.
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I don't think so. Not the stay at home complement we need in any case.
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Hands own the most insane contract of the day (so far).
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Well, at least there will be cost certainty when they start trading guys because keeping all of them is out of the question at this rate.
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Wow! It seemed like a nice thought but I didn't expect it to actually happen. It's not a cheap contract but one that he could outperform, so fine on that front. More than anything it builds speed and a Russian nucleus into our lineup, both of which will make us better.
[Signing] Canucks re-sign J.T. Miller
in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Posted
Love it! Fair deal that keeps us moving forward with our best player locked up. Suffer, all you nay-sayers!