nitronuts Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) I thought it couldn't handle too steep a grade, hence elevation change, nor accelerate too quickly. Well, we've been spoiled by SkyTrain's high acceleration and capability of climbing steep grades. It's far above the industry standard, except for our train speeds. 90 km/h for the Mark I and II trains (and now the Canada Line trains too) is on the slow side....but it still works for Vancouver, being faster than the car. SkyTrain can climb steep grades of 6%; rotary motors like the Canada Line can climb 3%. If we had used rotary motors for the Expo Line, it would've been a longer and slower ride and it would have to take a huge detour around New Westminster in order to make it over the Fraser River (climbs need to be gradual). The Marine Drive climb is probably the max. grade the Canada Line can take. Two of the slides Translink officials gave at a rapid transit conference in Ottawa this year on SKYTRAIN: WHAT WE WOULD HAVE DONE, IN HINDSIGHT •More Park and Ride facilities – only one official Park and Ride facility on the system plus a few private lots: objective was to encourage bus use and transfers but this was not widely accepted; with rising costs for automobiles, huge potential for increased ridership exists if more facilities were available •Centre platform stations only –although side-platform stations have smaller footprint, passenger circulation for alternate service is more difficult, significantly more track intrusions occur and overcrowding on narrow platforms is becoming an issue •No at-grade or exposed sub-grade alignment –major source of vandalism with thrown objects Edited August 22, 2009 by nitronuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Well, we've been spoiled by SkyTrain's high acceleration and capability of climbing steep grades. It's far above the industry standard, except for our train speeds. 90 km/h for the Mark I and II trains (and now the Canada Line trains too) is on the slow side....but it still works for Vancouver, being faster than the car. SkyTrain can climb steep grades of 6%; rotary motors like the Canada Line can climb 3%. If we had used rotary motors for the Expo Line, it would've been a longer and slower ride and it would have to take a huge detour around New Westminster in order to make it over the Fraser River (climbs need to be gradual). That's why I'm baffled that your ears would pop on it, whereas they haven't anywhere on the Skytrain (I presume). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violator Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 The Evergreen Line is located in the Coquitlam/Port Moody area, it has nothing to do with Vancouver and Richmond trains. And both are two completely separate issues, one at a cost of $1.4-billion (Evergreen) while the other is in the tens of millions (additional Canada Line trains). Yea, I thought it was just me...my ears did pop at the Marine Drive tunnel portal. Nevermind my question was different than i wanted and how was answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) bah, those very same nay-sayers will now be the people who criticize Translink for not buying enough trains. You know, the type of people you just can't please. To this very day there are people who were opposed to the Canada Line on Cambie, and now ride the train, who want it on Arbutus and/or as light rail. Some of them even want the system to be less busy, thus why it should be on Arbutus. And then, of course, there are others who simply think there was never ever a demand for rapid transit along the corridor. Here's one of those nutjobs, a lot of which he claims is false...he doesn't know how to put two things together and then leads to completely false assumptions and ridiculous theories: LETTER—Canada Line boondoggle Published: August 20, 2009 2:00 PM Updated: August 20, 2009 2:43 PM Carol Vignale, TransLink’s ‘lil puppy desperately extolling the virtues of the Canada Line is not a transit expert, and has little knowledge about modern public transit (Canada Line a boon? South Delta Leader, Aug. 14, 2009). Metro/subways are never planned for unless projected ridership on the line exceeds 400,000 to 500,000 a day. If a metro line does not carry such numbers it must be heavily subsidized; the fewer the passengers the higher the subsidy. Higher subsidies translates into road tolls and higher property taxes. But there is more. Subways have proven very poor in attracting new ridership and the Canada Line may very well force more people into cars. The Canada Line is too costly to be extended and as designed will only offer faster journey times to those who live and work near RAV stations. For many, taking the car will be faster than taking a bus transferring to RAV at Casino Junction and possibly transferring to another bus to complete their journey. One can lose upwards of 70 per cent of potential ridership per transfer. A metro system’s speed does not attract ridership itself, rather it is the speed of the overall journey that is important. Studies have shown that RAV will increase journey times for most current bus customers, who will lose their direct express buses and be forced to transfer onto the metro. According to the group DoRav Right, which did an independent audit of the RAV/Canada Line, the cost was near $2.5 billion, not the $2 billion quoted by the B.C. Liberal Government. The Canada Line P-3 was a charade and the consortium which built the subway used cheap foreign labour and a bait and switch from bored tunnel to cheaper cut-and-cover subway construction. The recent successful action by Cambie St. merchant, Susan Heyes, against TransLink, may wipe out any cost savings the switch as more merchants are now suing TransLink. At no time did the consortium assume risk on RAV, as the taxpayer will soon find out. What the RAV/Canada Line really is, is a hugely expensive, politically prestigious, under-built metro system, like a cheap Xmas train-set, that will fail to attract sufficient patronage to justify its construction. And one wonders why TransLink is in such financial peril and (Premier Gordon) Campbell has forced the phony ‘carbon’ or gas tax and HST onto the public. Malcolm Johnston, Delta Malcolm is quite against extending SkyTrain or any SkyTrain-like system like the Canada Line....he wants LRT for everything. Edited August 22, 2009 by nitronuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 That's why I'm baffled that your ears would pop on it, whereas they haven't anywhere on the Skytrain (I presume). Well, it's different. The Canada Line tunnel is massive, and is the city's first real transit tunnel (Expo Line's tunnel in downtown is of course an old railway tunnel). The last tunnel fan/ventilation system is at Langara, and from Langara to Marine Drive the train goes quite fast.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbo Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 To this very day there are people who were opposed to the Canada Line on Cambie, and now ride the train, who want it on Arbutus and/or as light rail. Some of them even want the system to be less busy, thus why it should be on Arbutus. And then, of course, there are others who simply think there was never ever a demand for rapid transit along the corridor. Here's one of those nutjobs, a lot of which he claims is false...he doesn't know how to put two things together and then leads to completely false assumptions and ridiculous theories: ... Malcolm is quite against extending SkyTrain or any SkyTrain-like system like the Canada Line....he wants LRT for everything. Wow. This was my favourite line: "But there is more. Subways have proven very poor in attracting new ridership and the Canada Line may very well force more people into cars." What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hordichuk Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Nice to know Rebecca Catley is still alive. I'm supposed to be doing work for her, but she hasn't contacted me in, like, a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denguin Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 ^ 2012, fare gates + smart cards + distance traveled fare system. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyHermit Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Just remembered something, does anyone else feel their ears pop a little bit when they get out of the tunnel on the Canada line. It was pretty annoying since it happens everytime. Also can they remove it somehow. The same thing happens during the ride between Columbia and Sapperton, but you get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGillis58 Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I rode the Canada Line today in Richmond and one I noticed is that the doors close too quickly. They should let all the people on before closing the doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 ^ which stations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGillis58 Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 ^ which stations? Lansdowne and Aberdeen Stations. There were hundreds of people on the platforms and not everyone got on because the doors close too quickly. Perhaps they could increase station layover by 10 extra seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty-J Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I'm not such a fan on the Canada Line because of the wildly unprofessional manner in which Translink has handled the Re-route of the 351 Vancouver bus route. They were presented with a reasonable compromise to their idea of a re-route and they completely rejected it. It seems to me that Translink is following in the footsteps of the Liberal government and forcing their way upon us, which really gets on my nerves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackberries Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I rode the Canada Line today in Richmond and one I noticed is that the doors close too quickly. They should let all the people on before closing the doors. The trains kept getting delayed today because the doors wouldn't close properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGillis58 Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 The trains kept getting delayed today because the doors wouldn't close properly The doors wouldn't close properly because fifty people were still trying to get on the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Lansdowne and Aberdeen Stations. There were hundreds of people on the platforms and not everyone got on because the doors close too quickly. Perhaps they could increase station layover by 10 extra seconds. There were HUNDREDS of people on Lansdowne and Aberdeen Station platforms? Wow, these were suppose to be the less busier stations in Richmond. The line is definitely underbuilt, and more and more it seems that they really did grossly underestimate ridership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 I'm not such a fan on the Canada Line because of the wildly unprofessional manner in which Translink has handled the Re-route of the 351 Vancouver bus route. They were presented with a reasonable compromise to their idea of a re-route and they completely rejected it. It seems to me that Translink is following in the footsteps of the Liberal government and forcing their way upon us, which really gets on my nerves. You were warned about the bus changes five years ago, it should come as no surprise. South of Fraser express buses like the 351 are massive money bleeders for Translink, some of the worst revenue generating bus routes in the region. Fare revenues only recover 20% of the cost it takes to operate buses like the 351 (the rest is subsidized), compared to the Vancouver proper average of 60% and the region-wide average of 48%. South of Fraser buses are being re-routed to Bridgeport to reduce that subsidy, and to free up money to operate the Canada Line. Translink is about to enter a $450-million annual deficit here if it continues with its expansion plans, it needs to make some hard choices. It needs about $150-million more per year just to maintain existing transit service levels. The problem we may see now on September 7th is a massive backlog on the Canada Line with all those bus riders being transplanted and transferred into the new train line. A lot more people are riding the Canada Line today than originally expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lateralus Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 2 yes I said 2 ticket stations at Lansdowne - WTF is up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitronuts Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 ^ what? If you meant there aren't enough ticket vending machines, yes that is a huge problem throughout the entire line. You can tell they really underestimated ridership with so few machines on the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I'm not such a fan on the Canada Line because of the wildly unprofessional manner in which Translink has handled the Re-route of the 351 Vancouver bus route. They were presented with a reasonable compromise to their idea of a re-route and they completely rejected it. It seems to me that Translink is following in the footsteps of the Liberal government and forcing their way upon us, which really gets on my nerves. I'm not too sure what the re-route plan is. What is this re-route plan you speak of, and should I, as a Richmond commuter, give a damn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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