cmpunk Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 After seeing the start of these playoffs and previous, my belief is that in the playoffs, you have to have a gritty and tough team in the playoffs. The Canucks philosophy of "playing whistle to whistle" and "make them pay on the pp" is something not many teams can do. People say Detroit won like this, but they have always been a gritty team that does not take crap from anyone. I think in the playoffs there is no such thing as being able to play whistle to whistle and you are going to have to get involved in scrappy play between whistles and always stand up. I just think for Canucks, this philosophy hasn't worked so far this playoffs and last playoffs because our scoring is hard to come by and our pp has dried up. Last SCF, once our pp dried up we had nothing and no answer and our strength became a weakness. I'm not saying Sedins need to fight or anything because they are skilled players, but they could use a big player with them on their side and if our other guys would take on guys when the Sedins are messed around with. Just imagine if the Sedins played for the Bruins and had Lucic on their line, you think anyone would touch them?? Half the Bruins players act tough because they know they got other guys to get behind like Lucic, Chara and Thornton who will stick up for them. That's why I hope Kassian can turn into that Lucic player and play with the Sedins for seasons to come. In the playoffs, you need to be this kind of team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I don't know if it is so much as playing gritty as it is playing like a team, but I understand your point. I just think that we have too many guys worried about themselves and that selfishness is killing us. No chemistry and no confidence in the playoffs means no success and sometimes all it takes is kicking the crap out of the opponents to get a little chemistry and confidence back. Sticking up for a teammate could be the deciding moment of a series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebossman Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Sorry but kassian will never intiminate anyone with that babyface of his, it's the sad reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmpunk Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Sorry but kassian will never intimate anyone with that babyface of his, it's the sad reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebossman Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 21 years old.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbits Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I didn't know you needed to have an intimating face to play that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Spades Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Lol well if his face doesn't give away the fact that he's a scared young boy out there right now his play so far certainly has, not knocking the kid, I like him and have high hopes for him in another 1-2 years, but as far as this year is concerned that trade was a major bust and set us back when it came playoff time, Hodge was really having a break out year to say the least and that trade hurt us. (again just talking about this year, as far as the future is concerned for all we know that could be the best or worst trade Vancouver has ever seen.... more probable that it falls somewhere inbetween the 2, I'm just saying we don't know what it will look like 5 years from now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I didn't know you needed to have an intimating face to play that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 The Canucks need to find their identity, and I think this season has been one where they're in between identities. Last season we were easily the best skillfull team with a great PP who would not hurt anyone physically, stray away from even hitting opponents but beat them up on the scoreboard with a great offence and solid defence. This season, we lose our skilled guys in Samuelsson, Ehrhoff, Hodgson and even Daniel, and get bigger bodies like Kassian, Bitz and Booth who play physically and are nowhere near as skilled enough as the previous Canucks, so our identity has to change. We can no longer be the team that relies on powerplays and our offence, we have to be the team that grinds down opponents physically and is solid defensively, and when opportunities arise we make our offence out of our opponents mistakes because our forwards just aren't skilled enough to beat quality defences head-on. Sadly AV doesn't know how to coach the physical style of team he has in front of him and he's still making our defence one of the more active defences in the league which we're really getting exposed by so far. The idea of having good defensive forwards and good offensive defencemen is just stupid and we're going to be swept for that kind of mentality - defence wins championships, it won one against us last season and its going to boot us in 4 games this season because we just haven't played proper defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madman Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Finally, some meaningful discussion on this board I agree with several of the posts in this thread regarding the need for grit and an identity. The problem is not that the entire team lacks grit. We can certainly talk about guys like Bieksa, Bitz, Weise, Kesler, Burrows etc. who have plenty of grit to stick up for teammates when called upon. The issue, IMO, is that our *designated leaders* on the team don't or can't *lead* with their grit. Think about who the *designated leaders* on the team include: The Twins and Luongo. They are our top players, the highest paid, the ones that have to answer the tough media questions when we lose, the ones that have to shoulder the burden and the blame. As a goalie, there's nothing that Luongo nor Schneider could ever do after the whistle that can make the team grittier and tougher. That responsibility lies with the guys on the bench. Yet, when it comes to the twins, they aren't exactly the menacing type, and they can't be. That's NOT their game. And that's precisely the problem: I can't think of any other Stanley Cup winner in recent past, or any Stanley Cup contender currently, whose top 2 players -- including our CAPTAIN -- needs to be *protected* as much as the Sedins. Maybe Crosby when Pitt won in 2009, but the guy can rough it up at least more than Henrik can and can stand up for himself. Other recent captains include: Chara, Toews, Lidstrom, E. Staal, Lecavalier, Sakic, Stevens, etc. These guys had their own grit. Yet, when Henrik got his wind knocked out of him by Dustin Brown, this is what we heard: "His TEAMMATES need to step up and defend him" and "people underestimate how tough Henrik really is. Look, he got his bell rung, and he still made it back in time for his next shift". All those comments are fine, except they have a hidden, underlying truth to them: we wouldn't be hearing these comments if Henrik and Daniel didn't need the protection to begin with. Think about this: the last time BEFORE last year's Stanley Cup run -- when our team was clearly playing at the highest level, and with a chip on our shoulder with something to prove, and the entire universe aligned with us until the finals -- the last time we went that far was in 1994, when we were led by Linden, Bure, and McLean. I'll say with Luongo and Schneider playing the way they are playing, goaltending is even. But when it comes to *leadership grit*, Linden and Bure were a big part of the reason 1994 happened. Nobody messed with Trevor because he'd throw you through the glass. And if you messed with Bure, he'd take care of it himself, like with his elbow to Shane Churla. It's the same reason we didn't pull through during the Naslund years. I know I might get flamed for this with Game 4 still waiting to be played. I love the Twins, their game, what they represent on and off the ice. I'll never forget how charitable they are, and how consistently good they are. They are all-stars, and we'll retire their numbers someday. And I fall in the group of hopeful fans that with Daniel back in the mix, who knows what will happen, maybe we CAN pull this thing out. But you can't deny some of what I've said. And a part of you has to want the above set of "comments" to sound more like: "The Captain of the Canucks just cannot be messed with", or from his teammates "our captain is leading us into battle right now, and I'd follow him wherever he takes us". Doesn't this have a nice ring to it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luongotv Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Look on the bright side, We could be Leafs Fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Peterson Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Durring the Rangers vs Senators game last night Don Cherry said... Henrik said..."I don't understand playoff hockey?" Don Cherry's answer was..."IT'S A WAR" During this segment Ron Maclean was trying to talk about the cheep hits on both Sedins and other stars throughout the NHL during these playoffs ...However nothing was resolved..."BALLS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Odjick Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Finally, some meaningful discussion on this board I agree with several of the posts in this thread regarding the need for grit and an identity. The problem is not that the entire team lacks grit. We can certainly talk about guys like Bieksa, Bitz, Weise, Kesler, Burrows etc. who have plenty of grit to stick up for teammates when called upon. The issue, IMO, is that our *designated leaders* on the team don't or can't *lead* with their grit. Think about who the *designated leaders* on the team include: The Twins and Luongo. They are our top players, the highest paid, the ones that have to answer the tough media questions when we lose, the ones that have to shoulder the burden and the blame. As a goalie, there's nothing that Luongo nor Schneider could ever do after the whistle that can make the team grittier and tougher. That responsibility lies with the guys on the bench. Yet, when it comes to the twins, they aren't exactly the menacing type, and they can't be. That's NOT their game. And that's precisely the problem: I can't think of any other Stanley Cup winner in recent past, or any Stanley Cup contender currently, whose top 2 players -- including our CAPTAIN -- needs to be *protected* as much as the Sedins. Maybe Crosby when Pitt won in 2009, but the guy can rough it up at least more than Henrik can and can stand up for himself. Other recent captains include: Chara, Toews, Lidstrom, E. Staal, Lecavalier, Sakic, Stevens, etc. These guys had their own grit. Yet, when Henrik got his wind knocked out of him by Dustin Brown, this is what we heard: "His TEAMMATES need to step up and defend him" and "people underestimate how tough Henrik really is. Look, he got his bell rung, and he still made it back in time for his next shift". All those comments are fine, except they have a hidden, underlying truth to them: we wouldn't be hearing these comments if Henrik and Daniel didn't need the protection to begin with. Think about this: the last time BEFORE last year's Stanley Cup run -- when our team was clearly playing at the highest level, and with a chip on our shoulder with something to prove, and the entire universe aligned with us until the finals -- the last time we went that far was in 1994, when we were led by Linden, Bure, and McLean. I'll say with Luongo and Schneider playing the way they are playing, goaltending is even. But when it comes to *leadership grit*, Linden and Bure were a big part of the reason 1994 happened. Nobody messed with Trevor because he'd throw you through the glass. And if you messed with Bure, he'd take care of it himself, like with his elbow to Shane Churla. It's the same reason we didn't pull through during the Naslund years. I know I might get flamed for this with Game 4 still waiting to be played. I love the Twins, their game, what they represent on and off the ice. I'll never forget how charitable they are, and how consistently good they are. They are all-stars, and we'll retire their numbers someday. And I fall in the group of hopeful fans that with Daniel back in the mix, who knows what will happen, maybe we CAN pull this thing out. But you can't deny some of what I've said. And a part of you has to want the above set of "comments" to sound more like: "The Captain of the Canucks just cannot be messed with", or from his teammates "our captain is leading us into battle right now, and I'd follow him wherever he takes us". Doesn't this have a nice ring to it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordfish Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 After seeing the start of these playoffs and previous, my belief is that in the playoffs, you have to have a gritty and tough team in the playoffs. The Canucks philosophy of "playing whistle to whistle" and "make them pay on the pp" is something not many teams can do. People say Detroit won like this, but they have always been a gritty team that does not take crap from anyone. I think in the playoffs there is no such thing as being able to play whistle to whistle and you are going to have to get involved in scrappy play between whistles and always stand up. I just think for Canucks, this philosophy hasn't worked so far this playoffs and last playoffs because our scoring is hard to come by and our pp has dried up. Last SCF, once our pp dried up we had nothing and no answer and our strength became a weakness. I'm not saying Sedins need to fight or anything because they are skilled players, but they could use a big player with them on their side and if our other guys would take on guys when the Sedins are messed around with. Just imagine if the Sedins played for the Bruins and had Lucic on their line, you think anyone would touch them?? Half the Bruins players act tough because they know they got other guys to get behind like Lucic, Chara and Thornton who will stick up for them. That's why I hope Kassian can turn into that Lucic player and play with the Sedins for seasons to come. In the playoffs, you need to be this kind of team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Hes 21..his face is not going to change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordfish Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 frack! crap! PISS! Why do my posts never break into paragraph form anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canidiot Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Lol well if his face doesn't give away the fact that he's a scared young boy out there right now his play so far certainly has, not knocking the kid, I like him and have high hopes for him in another 1-2 years, but as far as this year is concerned that trade was a major bust and set us back when it came playoff time, Hodge was really having a break out year to say the least and that trade hurt us. (again just talking about this year, as far as the future is concerned for all we know that could be the best or worst trade Vancouver has ever seen.... more probable that it falls somewhere inbetween the 2, I'm just saying we don't know what it will look like 5 years from now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpotato Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 We should just hire a man to take Quick out, get him out but also taking Quick out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CytotoxicCD8TLymphocyte Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I don't know why everyone is so concerned with having so many "goons"???? You win games by scoring goals not by intimidating the other team or being "so tough". You need skill and determination to win a series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 If some skill and goons were a winner, why is edmonton so bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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