(Vancouver Sun Article) Vigneault ‘Didn't Mean What He Said’ On Luongo Trade Request

[Banned01]

"He will start for at least 5-7 more years" was what you said - it's called a paraphrase - so, uh, yeah, you are clearly contradicting yourself there - no trade value/will start for at least 5-7 more years..."great goalie" according to you (that no one will want)... on and on.

Move along Banned. You've worn this one out.

[oldnews]

I said a dozen times the issue is the contract, not Luo's skill.

If Luo has such great trade value - list the teams that want him, how he fits their long-term Cap planning and the trade proposal.

I think everyone could use a good laugh with your Kool-Aid perspective.

Bob Mackenzie is one of the best sources there is, you dismiss him and his recent comments on Luo's more narrow market and hence more limited trade value without hesitation.

You are trolling this thread, not only dismissing my comments but also one of the most respected sources in hockey. Go back and play with your Xbox.

[pimpcurtly]

Did you read the quote you posted by MacKenzie, Banned? I didn't see many definites in there. A lot of "may" "may be" and "think." If you're going to take that as black and white, that's on you. Mackenzie may be right but he's also been wrong many times before.

[NLluvitorleaveit]

AV.....

[D-Money]

Gillis is a moron he brought back AV. With the way the team played during the playoffs, he clearly has lost the team. He is not as great as a leader that most believe people.

First interview with the media and instead of trying to get fans to support him for next season, he puts Luongo and Kesler under the bus.

That's why with AV we will go nowhere in the playoffs. He is clueless on how to lead a team.

Gillis you moron, you made a horrible horrible horrible mistake.

What was the point of resigning? Why not light a fire under his ass and tell him, either get it done or you are gone. With the way they approached it, here's more money for sucking. It doesn't matter that we lost to an 8th seeded team.

[Banned01]

If I were to read between your lines what I would see is a Flames fan whose team is going to get worse before it gets better, looking at the team that is already the best in the division, in a position to trade one of their top 10 goaltenders and add yet another roster player and more young talent and prospects to their already deep system. When I look at that writing on the wall, I understand your denial.

"The Leafs’ senior vice president of hockey operations, David Nonis, told the Fan 590 on Friday that he would be surprised if James Reimer and Ben Scrivens were the team’s two goalies next season. The club, he said, was looking to acquire a veteran between the pipes."

If you want to read between the lines prematurely, you could consider this a case of the guy who brought Luongo to Vancouver hinting to the Toronto market that they will engage in the talks, without getting their Luongo in a Leafs uniform hopes up. There is a lot of talk in Toronto about acquiring Luongo - but in the end, that is only speculation.

McKenzie is doing what you like to do (endlessly) - which is speculate prematurely.

Luongo's contract is just like Richards' and Carter's... not unmovable, especially to a big market team for whom a buyout wouldn't be an issue in the end - the low cap hit for the next 5-7 years would more than make up for it. His salary for the last three years are 1.6, 1, and 1 - they buyout is a mere 914k per season...

And with that, I am about done with 'discussing' with you.

[Banned01]

Did you read the quote you posted by MacKenzie, Banned? I didn't see many definites in there. A lot of "may" "may be" and "think." If you're going to take that as black and white, that's on you. Mackenzie may be right but he's also been wrong many times before.

[grumpworsley]

Yeah,Luongo is thrown under the bus and Cory is a pending,r free agent.

Should be interesting to see Gillis earn his money before now and July one.

[oldnews]

Why are you commenting on the Flames in this thread? You have done it 5 times now. Each time when you are bewildered and can not respond to my points.

I specifically asked you to list the teams, how the long term Cap issues fit that team and a trade proposal for Luo in this context. You lack the ability to do this.

Toronto is looking for a starting Goalie and that is no secret, it has been announced by Burke in his end of the year Presser and it was their primary vulnerability last year.

Why do you think Luo is a more attractive candidate for Toronto than say Thomas, Kipper (both who have had their NMC expire) Vokoun and even Harding as UFA? These Goalies all can be seen as shorter term to step aside for Toronto's young G as they develop next year. In Vokoun and Hardings case they will certainly be cheaper than Luo and sign more flexible contracts.

Tell me why Luo with his contract fits Toronto's situation better, with a ton of great young G prospects coming up?

The issue with Toronto is that they have a stable of excellent young G prospects at the moment. Taking Luo on just primes them to enter the same situation the Canucks are in, in 2-3 years. It would be far preferable from their perspective to take a Thomas, Kipper in a trade becasue they know that G can perform for next year and still age out quickly for one of their young G to naturally replace.

Finally, you are so clueless, again comparing Forwards like Richards and Carter to a Goalie. If you look up the Carter trade articles prior to the trade, there was common commentary on how his long contract was hurting his trade value. Jack Johnson is hardly a fair trade for Carter. The Kings won that one easy.

Plus you forget how again Richards and Carter can slot into a team's forward ranks easier than a Goalie who by virtue of his Cap hit and sole position can push other Goalies to the bench. A team has more flexibility with a Forward or D man on a long contract for Cap planning than a Goalie. I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Look at the Canucks situation right now, that is why they have an issue with two starters on the team. It is like having Malkin and Crosby but with the limitation that only one can play each game, the other has to sit in the press box.

And thank you for being done with discussing this, you have not made one intelligent point in the entire thread and just go to attacking the Flames out of thin air because you don't know what to do otherwise to earn favor with other CDC members...

[oldnews]

You don't actually think for a second that Gillis has not already got a commitment from the CS side do you?

[pimpcurtly]

All Mackenzie said is there is not as much of a market for Luo as originally thought.

That was my only point, I am sure he can be traded, just that the return will not be as high as many think. Luo's contract is a challenge for other teams because (a) many teams do not spend to the ceiling for a variety of reasons and (b ) it gives whatever team that takes him much less flexibility on the position going forward - they are forced to put very weak and cheap Goalies into the back-up positions due to Cap and have no room to grow young G into the position over the next 5-7 years...

Those are pretty negative consequences in the Cap era for any team.

As far as Mackenzie goes, he is non-biased and one of, if not the best source in hockey.

He may be right, he may be wrong, fair enough but you don't need any source to look over the Cap's limitations, team's Goalie prospects and Cap horizon for the handful of teams that are on the hunt for a top Goalie and see the issues.

As I said before the best team was Tampa and Yzerman has squashed the rumors of a Luo trade.

That does not bode well...

[oldnews]

I think it was Pierre Labrun on sports radio this morning saying that the percieved dis-interest in Luongo is quite possibly a tactic by both Toronto and Tampa to try a get Luongo for less. The games have only just begun Banned.

[oldnews]

Did you read the quote you posted by MacKenzie, Banned? I didn't see many definites in there. A lot of "may" "may be" and "think." If you're going to take that as black and white, that's on you. Mackenzie may be right but he's also been wrong many times before.

[Merci]

Luongo to Toronto with Higgins and Schroeder for the 5th overall and Joey Crabb

[pimpcurtly]

The irony is that in that interview McKenzie says that "the contract is not as overwhelming as it first appears..."

They go on to note that Burke might not want Luongo.... but Nonis does.... and that Burke can dance around the philosophical issues...of the long-term contract, because he did not sign Luongo to it.

In the end McKenzie says "It's all over the map" and there is nothing McKenzie says that indicates that he actually spoke to the Leafs - merely giving opinions that are 'all over the map', not reflecting a credible source.

[Banned01]

* Johnson and a first round pick

** Schenn, Simmonds and a second for Richards

[oldnews]

Luongo to Toronto with Higgins and Schroeder for the 5th overall and Joey Crabb

[Banned01]

The irony is that in that interview McKenzie says that "the contract is not as overwhelming as it first appears..."

They go on to note that Burke might not want Luongo.... but Nonis does.... and that Burke can dance around the philosophical issues...of the long-term contract, because he did not sign Luongo to it.

In the end McKenzie says "It's all over the map" and there is nothing McKenzie says that indicates that he actually spoke to the Leafs - merely giving opinions that are 'all over the map', not reflecting a credible source.

[Banned01]

Luongo and Aaron Rome to Toronto for Franson, Gardiner, Colborne, their 5th overall, Biggs, and Ashton.

[Banned01]

Luongo to Toronto with Higgins and Schroeder for the 5th overall and Joey Crabb