CookieCrumbs Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 If we can bring in Moen/Prust as a 4th liner and use them to move Weise down to our 13th forward I would be happy... Glass and Bernier? A lot of those guys will make way more than 2.55 (Hudler, Parenteau, Whitney) A lot of those guys are fringe NHL'ers (Staubitz, Bernier) Sykora is old I wouldn't any of the remaining players upgrades over Raymond (lateral at best and likely more $) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMelvin Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Lack of talent....smaller buys in the NHL work harder than him...and they proved it. Broken back, maybe but its all business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 What was his excuse the season before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Doctor Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I dont think I have ever seen more substance in a post. Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 You'll get more substance when you ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup2013? Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Umm he was on pace for 46 points... Also during that season he was on pace for 37 even strength points, an increase on his 35 esp the year before. This despite fewer minutes, and a non-existent 2nd PP unit. This year was definitely off for Raymond, but the 2 years prior were impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 The year after Raymond his career year was impressive? No sorry. It was a huge frustrating season. Raymond has been given every opportunity to show what he has and he has failed on so many levels. Let him go. Pick someone up via trade or free agency. He needs a fresh start. Us fans don't deserve to have to watch him play another season. If Gillis sees otherwise. Then well. I hope he is right and that Raymond can contribute. I just don't see it happening the way we would need him too. A line of 7-17-21 will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup2013? Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Frustrating for Raymond perhaps? He was on pace for 7 less points, He produced more ES points in 2010-2011 than 2009-2010 despite getting less even strength TOI/game. He also got less PP time (about 40 seconds/game), and his PP points went from 18 down to 6. To trade for an upgrade your going to have to move some valuable assets, and free agency is going to end up with a replacement player costing twice as much (David Jones anyone?) A line of 7-17-21 isn't the most desirable, I can agree to that. But having a player able to play lines 2-4 effectively for less than market value is a good asset to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 I have never liked Raymond. Complete honesty. I have never been a fan of his soft play. And friend of mine once put it like this "Raymond is one player who always seems to trying hard. But that's his problem. He's trying too hard". Would I like Raymond to go? Yes. But. I think MG and AV are goin to give him the benefit of the doubt. (unless they can package him with someone for an upgrade). If they keep him I hope he is on a shorter leash. And that goes with all the players. Earn your spot. I also wouldnt say that Raymond can effectively play on 2-4 lines. As we saw this past season. Other than PK. I just dont really see where he fits on our team. But this is just me. He has skill (anyone to say otherwise is foolish, unskillful players don't play in the NHL). Just not the skill that the Canucks need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup2013? Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thanks for the reply...its a lot more insightful than 99% of anti-Raymond posts (not NHL caliber, not worth a 7th etc). I will be the first to admit, Raymond isn't the ideal player for the top-6. We don't have a wealth of options at the moment however, and his versatility does make him a somewhat valuable player. Too many people want him gone without even considering that it opens a hole on our roster that needs to be filled (with someone who isn't completely useless preferably). I actually just made a trade proposal doing a Raymond for Eric Tangradi + 4th rounder trade. Tangradi isn't an upgrade on Raymond, but he is an upgrade on Weise who (despite being a project player at this point) may become a top-6 powerforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sockeye Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Unlike most of CDC, I am a Raymond fan. He has a great forecheck and I still think that speed has a place in the NHL. Last year was not a great year for Mayray, but then who would have a great year after an almost career ending injury. He has proven himself with his production in previous years. I don't want to give up on him. He will rebound next year - whether that's on the 3rd line or 2nd line, I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup2013? Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Unlike most of CDC, I am a Raymond fan. He has a great forecheck and I still think that speed has a place in the NHL. Last year was not a great year for Mayray, but then who would have a great year after an almost career ending injury. He has proven himself with his production in previous years. I don't want to give up on him. He will rebound next year - whether that's on the 3rd line or 2nd line, I don't care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Weise? Or Kassian? I believe Kassian is more of their project player who could be that top-6 powerforward. And yes. There are a lot of people here that clearly have no idea about hockey. It's quite hilarious to read some of the posts. As for a hole that would need to be filled. Higgins can fill the 2nd line whole. And IMO is a way better option than Raymond. As for 3rd line. I've heard analysists talking about how Huselius may be an option. Yes it maybe a gamble with his injury history. But if I had to go with Raymond or Huselius I would be more inclined to go with the 'pass-first' guy (something the Canucks lack). It will be interesting to see what MG has planned for this summer. His latest interview made it seem like he had a number of players he was going to make a push for. Should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSniper88 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I'm referring to Eric Tangradi as a project winger. 23 years old, but only 40 NHL games but all the tools to be an NHL power forward. What I mean by replacing him is bringing in a "warm body" who can offset the loss of Raymond (I usually use Higgins on line 2, and Raymond on line 3 already) so more than anything we need to find another player equal to or greater than Raymond. While Tangradi doesn't necessarily offset the loss of Raymond, he does have promising upside and at the very least could be an effective bottom 6 guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Any player who can score 20 points in 55 games, without the benefit of a pre season and on a line with the "puck hog twins" is a -------- miracle worker and definitely very valuable to this team. Frankly I don't know how Raymond puts up with it. If it was me, their ears would be ringing between periods. We need to get that line passing for the benefit of the team and if Kes and Booth won't share then I would trade both of them and create a new one with Raymond, Higgins and Burrows and use the trade to get a big winger for the Twins. If LA should have taught Booth and Kesler anything it is that passing creates angles and gets you chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshinefe Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Kesler and Booth would be better served with a big winger who can open up space for them so they can get their wristers off. Raymond is pretty much the opposite--he barely creates room in the dirty areas of the ice ever, stays on the perimeter, and as everyone is always so fond of pointing out... he turns the puck over and falls... a lot. He's also certainly not very well suited for the "young and big" philosophy MG is going for, so I think we should sign him then try to trade him at the deadline if there's any chance of getting a large, net-crashing top 6 or a shut-down top 4 D-man (assuming we also dump a goalie and have cap room etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshinefe Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Any player who can score 20 points in 55 games, without the benefit of a pre season and on a line with the "puck hog twins" is a -------- miracle worker and definitely very valuable to this team. Frankly I don't know how Raymond puts up with it. If it was me, their ears would be ringing between periods. We need to get that line passing for the benefit of the team and if Kes and Booth won't share then I would trade both of them and create a new one with Raymond, Higgins and Burrows and use the trade to get a big winger for the Twins. If LA should have taught Booth and Kesler anything it is that passing creates angles and gets you chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup2013? Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Any player who can score 20 points in 55 games, without the benefit of a pre season and on a line with the "puck hog twins" is a -------- miracle worker and definitely very valuable to this team. Frankly I don't know how Raymond puts up with it. If it was me, their ears would be ringing between periods. We need to get that line passing for the benefit of the team and if Kes and Booth won't share then I would trade both of them and create a new one with Raymond, Higgins and Burrows and use the trade to get a big winger for the Twins. If LA should have taught Booth and Kesler anything it is that passing creates angles and gets you chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup2013? Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Kesler and Booth would be better served with a big winger who can open up space for them so they can get their wristers off. Raymond is pretty much the opposite--he barely creates room in the dirty areas of the ice ever, stays on the perimeter, and as everyone is always so fond of pointing out... he turns the puck over and falls... a lot. He's also certainly not very well suited for the "young and big" philosophy MG is going for, so I think we should sign him then try to trade him at the deadline if there's any chance of getting a large, net-crashing top 6 or a shut-down top 4 D-man (assuming we also dump a goalie and have cap room etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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