The Newer Newer Official WWE/TNA thread.

[TheHitman]

I guess this isn't Undertaker's last Wrestlemania then. 

[g_bassi13]

14 hours ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

if you watch how roman's handling the crowd for his promos and entrances, he looks like a defeated hockey team, who's down 6-0 in the 2nd period, and the other team's just running up the score. wrestlemania can't come fast enough for this guy. i really want to see how they're going to try to protect roman in chicago. that crowd will show absolutely no mercy

Well I was talking about how best to hide him after a reaction like tonight's. Their answer it turns out, is to literally hide him so he doesn't even come on these shows. He's requiring a "surgery" as per the WWE's kayfabe.

That's not what I meant by hiding him, lol. They're probably hoping that he'll get a huge pop when he miraculously returns before Mania on a Raw, but he won't. You're in smark towns, and those smarks know exactly why he is going to be "out".

 

7 hours ago, swflyers8 said:

Time to turn RR heel.  He should watch tapes of his cousin, that should be of some help to him.

 

Footage of Saxton giving RR a blood packet or capsule..

https://gfycat.com/WavyContentAmoeba

They should, but they won't. Almost definitely not before Mania. Possibly within the match itself, but I don't know how likely that is still. Cena has had about 763 logical opportunities to turn heel over the last decade, and they didn't use a single of them. So I don't even know how likely it is for Roman down the road. He'd have to whole heartedly fail over a continued period of time before they finally change their mind about him.

[the last outlaw]

What if The Undertaker looks like he's going to win at WM only to have a big name return distracting him and losing the match.

 

Love to see Sting do it, being in the same ring together for the first ever and having a stare down with Undertaker. If were not going to get Sting vs. Undertaker the next best thing is this. Sting wouldn't have to do anything physical.

[the last outlaw]

Ryback turns heel. Yeah because it worked so well the first time.

 

 

[Chris]

1 hour ago, the last outlaw said:

What if The Undertaker looks like he's going to win at WM only to have a big name return distracting him and losing the match.

 

Love to see Sting do it, being in the same ring together for the first ever and having a stare down with Undertaker. If were not going to get Sting vs. Undertaker the next best thing is this. Sting wouldn't have to do anything physical.

[the last outlaw]

Reigns is being taken off TV after the HHH attack. Their hoping for big pop when he returns.

[Guest]

My buddy and I are always fantasy booking with "Shane comes back and then...!" so I was pretty pumped over his return

[the last outlaw]

 

[the last outlaw]

The Undertaker will be on Raw next week.

[the last outlaw]

WWE Brand Extensions might be returning.

 

Quote

When Shane McMahon returned to WWE TV last night, he demanded his father Vince McMahon hand him control of Monday Night Raw.  This led to the announcement of Undertaker vs. Shane McMahon in Hell in A Cell at Wrestlemania with McMahon getting Raw if he wins. So, why is this stipulation happening? Over the last few weeks, there's been talk of WWE bringing back some form of the old brand extension that the company had from 2002-2011. At its height, the brand extension isolated talents on Raw or Smackdown with PPVs for each brand, creating some in-house competition among the wrestlers, announcing teams and creative teams to be the bettter side of the company. The two sides would only cross over on major events, such as Wrestlemania or the Royal Rumble.   Over time, WWE loosened the extension so that talent from each brand appeared on every PPV and in 2011, the extension was dropped altogether. It appears that the return of McMahon could be the beginning of the storyline that sees Raw, under Shane McMahon's rule and Smackdown under the rule of the other McMahons, setting those two sides, and their respective talents, against each other.

  

The idea of Shane in charge of Raw provides the company with something of a reboot for talents who haven't been used to their fullest potential as well.  McMahon's verbiage last night noted how the company has fallen under the control of The Authority, specifically noting that WWE's stock price and TV ratings have dropped.  Shane McMahon gaining control, either at Wrestlemania or another storyline point, would set the company up for Raw to have a "fresh start" - and one where a new, credible "leader", in the form of Shane, would be "calling the shots" on camera. It's interesting to note that a Ticketmaster listing for a 5/23 Raw taping in Baltimore, Maryland is billed as "Monday Night Raw vs. WWE", providing potential insight into where things may be going.  That taping will be the day after the 5/22 Extreme Rules PPV.   The title of that show has been unchanged since it was added several weeks ago, meaning that it is not a Ticketmaster error as WWE would have had it corrected by now.  Tickets for the Baltimore taping go on sale 3/19. It should also be interesting to see where WWE NXT and its talents fit into all this, if at all, since that brand has so strongly been linked to Triple H over the last several years.  WWE has big plans for NXT as a touring brand over the next few years, so how those plans will change, if at all, will be interesting to see. The next six or so weeks will be VERY interesting to follow.

 

 

Quote

 

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by the last outlaw

[\/ijay]

If they want Reigns to get a pop all they have to do is have him go over in a feud against Cena. He'll be the top babyface in the company then.

Edited February 24, 2016 by \/ijay

[the last outlaw]

11 minutes ago, \/ijay said:

If they want Reigns to get a pop all they have to do is have him go over in a feud against Cena. He'll be the top babyface in the company then.

Both Cena and Reigns would be booed equally. If they turn Cena heel everyone that boos him would then cheer for him.

[Guest]

I'd still boo Cena...

[the last outlaw]

Daniel Bryan is being considered for this year's HOF class. It's also possible they might save him for another year.

[shiznak]

Honestly, I don't even hate Reigns as much as the IWC does and I actually feel bad for the guy, for getting shat on constantly. I mean, he isn't the most talented wrestlers around, but he's not a slouch in the ring either. And when he's not being force-feed lines in his promos, he's actually a pretty good talker (watch some of his backstage, unedited stuff on the WWE network).

 

I get people don't like when WWE try to force things down our throats, but they'd been doing this ever since the very beginning of time, and no ever had a problem with it. From Hogan to Austin to Cena in his Thugamonic days. None of those guys ever got shatted on as much as Roman have.

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by shiznak

[g_bassi13]

4 hours ago, \/ijay said:

If they want Reigns to get a pop all they have to do is have him go over in a feud against Cena. He'll be the top babyface in the company then.

It would really only get Cena cheered, I think. Reigns is into the position that Cena was with hardcore fans, where he will be booed into oblivion if he just stays a face. If HHH can elicit such a positive reaction for just beating Reigns into a Pulp, imagine a situation where Cena was doing it.

 

He's certainly passed Cena in terms of that "go away" heat with hardcore fans. Especially since Cena has been off TV for a while, and he has been out of the title picture even longer.

 

3 hours ago, CanuckianOne said:

I'd still boo Cena...

I would too. More likely I would just turn off me TV by that point, lol.

 

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

Honestly, I don't even hate Reigns as much as the IWC does and I actually feel bad for the guy, for getting shat on constantly. I mean, he isn't the most talented wrestlers around, but he's not a slouch in the ring either. And when he's not being force-feed lines in his promos, he's actually a pretty good talker (watch some of his backstage, unedited stuff on the WWE network).

 

I get people don't like when WWE try to force things down our throats, but they'd been doing this ever since the very beginning of time, and no ever had a problem with it. From Hogan to Austin to Cena in his Thugamonic days. None of those guys ever got shatter on as much as Roman have been.

 

I think I said after Survivor Series or TLC in this thread that their best course of action with Reigns was to continue to keep him away from the title picture. I know many including myself would just continue to dread him, just waiting for that prolonged moment where they finally just slot him into the main event any ways. But if they gave themselves that space, they could have given themselves a chance to build his character, and change enough minds that it could potentially have worked down the road.

It's too bad their reaction from last year was to simply delay it for a year, without changing any of the things that made it fail to work the first time around. It wasn't long enough, and they did barely anything to fix him. It's the exact same situation as last year. Probably even worse.

 

My thoughts with him personally is that I don't think he puts on great matches, but he isn't entirely awful. His move set is limited, but he can hit enough moves convincingly. If he didn't fight that superman "lay down for the entire match" model, he would be better served. I do think his mic and promo work has been pretty heinous so far in his career though. I know they script everything he says, but he's done nothing to show me he has any of the charisma to be their standalone hero, week in and week out.

 

Rock, and Austin had an element to their characters that made them transcend the standards of promo work. They could carry a show on their own, just with their presence. They could brawl, they could trash talk, they could hype the crowd with their words, with their ring psychology, with their gestures. Even Cena could do that to a more limited extent. It's totally fine that Reigns can't do this, because not everyone can. Daniel Bryan is their most over wrestler in the last decade and he wasn't a complete package wrestler either. The problem is that they keep trying to shoehorn Reigns into that position any ways, because they operate under the thinking that someone needs to fill that position.

 

Their mistake is that they don't. It's a good thing to have, but it brings down the rest of the program when so much of it begins to centre around propping up a failed attempt at it.

 

 

I know the personal reason I can't get behind Reigns is because just how fake the whole push seems. It's the same reason that I went from almost loving Cena to despising him, despite him being a better version of what Reigns is now. I know wrestling is all a work, but it's because of that when I can't even buy what they're saying, I tune out. They continue to hack off the more organic elements to their show, and push the manufactured ones. I can't speak for others personally, but it's part of a bigger overall waning interest in their product, I think. I do know wrestling has been at its best when they let it be more organic.

 

Just letting Ambrose win at Fastlane and chasing that to its fruition would have been more of a chase towards that organic. Calling an audible being more natural than their set play. Having Reigns chase his title is a logical conclusion to their story and their script, but it just being the script doesn't make it the right one in the fans eyes. Not the ones that are booing him out of every arena.

 

You can have a discussion about who and what would get someone over, and what wouldn't when you're thinking up ideas. Like the goal is how to get people in a position to be over, and what you should be doing is figuring out how. But a lot of what they've been doing over the last few years is actively suppressing things that get too over, and trying to force forward things that are not. They have their own idea of what over is supposed to be, and it's that one megastar mould when it comes to that main event picture, so they're stubborn when something challenges that, even if it can help them.

 

It's awkward, but this main event picture, and Roman Reigns' push is just more of that.

 

 

They used Ambrose all of last month, and in the PPV match to protect Reigns (hell they did for most of last year). However, this next month, and Wrestlemania is all on him. It's what they want, but it's only going to expose him further (maybe they'll get the Rock. or someone temporary if they're smart.)

[shiznak]

1 hour ago, g_bassi13 said:

I think I said after Survivor Series or TLC in this thread that their best course of action with Reigns was to continue to keep him away from the title picture. I know many including myself would just continue to dread him, just waiting for that prolonged moment where they finally just slot him into the main event any ways. But if they gave themselves that space, they could have given themselves a chance to build his character, and change enough minds that it could potentially have worked down the road.

It's too bad their reaction from last year was to simply delay it for a year, without changing any of the things that made it fail to work the first time around. It wasn't long enough, and they did barely anything to fix him. It's the exact same situation as last year. Probably even worse.

 

My thoughts with him personally is that I don't think he puts on great matches, but he isn't entirely awful. His move set is limited, but he can hit enough moves convincingly. If he didn't fight that superman "lay down for the entire match" model, he would be better served. I do think his mic and promo work has been pretty heinous so far in his career though. I know they script everything he says, but he's done nothing to show me he has any of the charisma to be their standalone hero, week in and week out.

 

Rock, and Austin had an element to their characters that made them transcend the standards of promo work. They could carry a show on their own, just with their presence. They could brawl, they could trash talk, they could hype the crowd with their words, with their ring psychology, with their gestures. Even Cena could do that to a more limited extent. It's totally fine that Reigns can't do this, because not everyone can. Daniel Bryan is their most over wrestler in the last decade and he wasn't a complete package wrestler either. The problem is that they keep trying to shoehorn Reigns into that position any ways, because they operate under the thinking that someone needs to fill that position.

 

Their mistake is that they don't. It's a good thing to have, but it brings down the rest of the program when so much of it begins to centre around propping up a failed attempt at it.

 

 

I know the personal reason I can't get behind Reigns is because just how fake the whole push seems. It's the same reason that I went from almost loving Cena to despising him, despite him being a better version of what Reigns is now. I know wrestling is all a work, but it's because of that when I can't even buy what they're saying, I tune out. They continue to hack off the more organic elements to their show, and push the manufactured ones. I can't speak for others personally, but it's part of a bigger overall waning interest in their product, I think. I do know wrestling has been at its best when they let it be more organic.

 

Just letting Ambrose win at Fastlane and chasing that to its fruition would have been more of a chase towards that organic. Calling an audible being more natural than their set play. Having Reigns chase his title is a logical conclusion to their story and their script, but it just being the script doesn't make it the right one in the fans eyes. Not the ones that are booing him out of every arena.

 

You can have a discussion about who and what would get someone over, and what wouldn't when you're thinking up ideas. Like the goal is how to get people in a position to be over, and what you should be doing is figuring out how. But a lot of what they've been doing over the last few years is actively suppressing things that get too over, and trying to force forward things that are not. They have their own idea of what over is supposed to be, and it's that one megastar mould when it comes to that main event picture, so they're stubborn when something challenges that, even if it can help them.

 

It's awkward, but this main event picture, and Roman Reigns' push is just more of that.

 

 

They used Ambrose all of last month, and in the PPV match to protect Reigns (hell they did for most of last year). However, this next month, and Wrestlemania is all on him. It's what they want, but it's only going to expose him further (maybe they'll get the Rock. or someone temporary if they're smart.)

I wouldn't say Reigns doesn't have any charisma, it's just that the current character he's playing doesn't mesh well with his looks. He's not a loveable superhero or a white knight, like John Cena. He's looks like a legitimate badass, who looks like he can knock you out with one punch. 

 

Remember when Reigns would come out, looking like that, in his earlier days, and was super over with the crowd? They should have kept him booked that way, but Vince probably knew Cena's star was slowly fading and wanted to speed up the process, which utlimately turn the fans against him. 

 

 

Now this is the Roman Reigns, people can get behind.

 

I think the only way to save Reigns from being booed out of the building is to have him go back to this character, and be a tweener with an attitude. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by shiznak

[swflyers8]

I think the only way to save Reigns from being booed out of the building is to have him go back to this character, and be a tweener with an attitude.

 

That's not going to work.  They are booing the crap out of him now.  Recently, the only time they weren't booing him was when he nutso and attacked HHH a couple PPVs ago.  They need him to not care who he hurts.  Let him be a man on a mission and let him destroy anyone.  Bad guy, good guy.  Have him be vicious.  That's the only way this will work. 

[shiznak]

7 hours ago, swflyers8 said:

 

 

That's not going to work.  They are booing the crap out of him now.  Recently, the only time they weren't booing him was when he nutso and attacked HHH a couple PPVs ago.  They need him to not care who he hurts.  Let him be a man on a mission and let him destroy anyone.  Bad guy, good guy.  Have him be vicious.  That's the only way this will work. 

That's kind of where I was going with. He needs to be a badass tweener, who destroys everybody in his path, whether they're a heel or not. 

[Grapefruits]

Bryan Alvarez noted on Wrestling Observer Live today he's heard that we can expect to see an edgier WWE product between now and the biggest show of the year.
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Finally!