Something’s gotta give (Trade deadline coming?)

[mll]

13 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

it wouldnt be a choice.... it would be the contracts that put you over that would be cancelled obviously.

 

your just making stuff up to fit your narrative. the info i gave you is from the CBA. and the decision basically comes down to gary bettman, he can do whatever he wants as long as it doesnt disregard CBA rules. signing a player that puts the team over the cap IS circumventing the cap, if you dont have plans to get under the cap. and saing player x wouldnt waive his NTC is not going to cut the mustard.

 

anyways, this is kind of a silly argument,there's no way in hell this scenario happens.  TB wont sign any of thier RFA'S before having a deal in place beforehand, or they'll just trade the RFA's.

 

It's from the articles you posted.   The point VI is only if the player was part of the circumvention too - but not if he has a perfectly valid contract: 

 

20 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

look at (VI) they can cancel the contract.

 

(i) Impose a fine of up to $5 million in the case of a Circumvention by a Club or Club Actor, but in no circumstances shall such fine be less than $1 million against any Club or Club Actor if such party is found to have violated Article 50 of this Agreement. If such a fine is assessed against a Club (except in the case of a financial reporting violation), that Club's Payroll Room shall also be reduced by such amount for the following League Year, and if such reduction of the Club's Payroll Room renders the Club out of compliance with the Payroll Range (i.e., the Club does not have sufficient Payroll Room to accommodate its Player commitments comprising Club Salary) for such following League Year, then the Club must take such steps as are necessary (e.g., Assignment, Buy-Out, Waivers, etc.) and as are permitted by this Agreement to ensure that the Club will be in compliance with Article 50 of this Agreement upon
commencement of the following League Year;

(ii) Impose a fine against a Player of up to the lesser of $1 million or twentyfive (25%) percent of a Player's Paragraph 1 Salary in the case of a Circumvention by a Player or Player Actor, but in no circumstances shall such fine be below the lesser of $250,000 or twenty-five (25%) percent of the Player's Paragraph 1 Salary. Notwithstanding the $1 million limitation set forth above, any additional amounts by which the Player has been unjustly enriched due to the Circumvention shall be ordered to be disgorged;

(iii) Direct a Club to forfeit draft picks (the number, placement, and League Year of which shall be determined in the Commissioner's sole discretion);

(iv) Declare a forfeiture of any NHL Game(s) determined to have been affected by a Circumvention;

(v) Direct a Club to disclose and report to the Independent Accountants all information required by this Agreement, including, without limitation, by the provisions of Article 50;

(vi) Void any SPC, or any extension of an SPC, between any Player and any Club when both the Player or Player Actor and the Club or Club Actor are found to have committed such a violation with respect to such SPC or extension; and

(vii) Suspend any Club employee, Player, or Certified Agent involved in such a violation for a period of time determined in the sole discretion of the Commissioner, the System Arbitrator, or the NHLPA, respectively.

 

[mll]

12 hours ago, lmm said:

 

thanks guys

 

2 things I am getting from this

 

1 this is a little off from my question. we seem to have veered into cap circumvetion.

like

Team signs player X ( lets say Mike Hoffman) to a $1 mil contract and , nudge nudge wink wink buys his wife a house .

Using Hoffman's wife is prob risky, but what evs.

This is a situation where player, aGENT, and team are invovled

And I can see why that contract would be voided, however, I do wonder how it would have been ratified in the first place.

So that is interesting, but not answering my question.

 

My Question was meant to be about teams going over cap and the penalties

 

2 what I get from this is there are minimum fines but that they are open ended and at Gary and Bill's discretion

 

Lets use Tampa as an example

Tampa is currently under the cap limit

however they are also under the roster limit and have 2 high profile RFAs to sign

Now assuming the contracts are not invalid, like the Hoffman example above,  Tampa signs both player and ends up $ 2 mil over cap.

First day of the season they would be fined and lose picks at Gary's disgression

first game of the season they forfit

A team like Tampa could probably forfit 15% of the season and still win the cup, (that would look bad)

so I ask you both what do you think would happen next?

Would the NHL void contracts to force  Tampa below the cap and if so how would they decide which contracts to void?

I am not suggesting Tampa would enter this situation intentionally, but what if they had a deal in place, and it fell through last minute, etc

with so many teams over cap, it looks like a game of musical chairs, I could see someone left out.

 

Bill Daly was asked and answered last month:  “It’s not an ‘option,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Wednesday. “Team doesn’t play.”

 

Exceeding the cap (or not meeting the floor) is considered cap circumvention.  The CBA details the penalties - see articles posted by Petey_BOI.  Voiding a valid contract is not one of the penalties listed.

 

The NHLPA would never allow the NHL to just void valid contracts.  Players negotiated their contracts in good faith and it's not their fault if the team can't get their cap situation under control.  A player might no longer be worth his contract - who knows if he can even find a job after having his contract cancelled.  You can't just look at high profile RFAs and claim that Bettman would let them go UFA - any rule would have to apply to any team regardless of the quality of their players.  

 

Every move made by a NHL team is recorded in the NHL's Central Registry - trades, contracts, recalls, demotions etc all have to be filed and they verify that they are valid and meet the cap requirements.   A team can't file a contract if it puts them above the cap and will have to make room beforehand.  In the off-season teams can exceed the cap by 10%.  Off-season cap is calculated differently than in the regular season.  

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by mll

[Bad_BOI_pete]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

It's from the articles you posted.   The point VI is only if the player was part of the circumvention too - but not if he has a perfectly valid contract: 

 

 

sorry, you're right. i was stuck up on the fact that its possible to void contracts, league would need to prove the player would have anything to do with going over the cap. now it seems rather silly, what i was arguing. 

[lmm]

On 11/21/2020 at 2:01 PM, Petey_BOI said:

its very possible they void the contract if its deemed to circumvent the cap, like if they offered both cirelli and sergachev NMC'S (EDIT; THIS WOULD ONL BE THE TEAMS PROBLEM, NOT THE PLAYER'S). 

however, it's 99.999999% unlikely this situation arises. thier is no way in hell brisebois puts himself over the cap without a deal in place. look at how we got schmidt, that trade was lined up before pietrangelo signed. if tampa bay finds no trade partners for a johnson or/and palat the rfas will be traded.

so, you are saying that Tampa has a trade in place before today's signing?

Edited November 25, 2020 by lmm