[PGT] Colorado Avalanche at Vancouver Canucks | Nov. 17, 2021

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, JM_ said:

I think the good GA 5 on 5 is a nice add from Shaw, so that and Clark are at least bright spots to build on.

 

I'm not sure what it will take to force change at this point tho.

The other positive, and yes it's hard to find any these days, is seemed like during Markstrom last couple seasons the shot clock against was often in the 35-45 range ... Markstrom and Demko were often left out high and dry.   5 x 5 you can tell they are trying for sure, lack of effort isn't the issue.   One thing Green's actually managed during his tenure here in general.   Can't fix playing 8-10th Ds peppered throughout the lineup....our PK?   Absolutely brutal.    Is Shaw the reason our 5 x 5 play shows we can play again most teams?   Or is that just our forward group as a whole getting better?   I don't know.   A coaching change might not improve the effort level much other then fear of losing minutes.   Systems yes.    McDavid and Co don't really have a system per say on their PP - he's publicly stated it's so good because they constantly change things up using their skill to run it.   Shows what a top personnel can do.   And good on the coach for not messing with that!

 

Cherry has talked about doing their PP drills.   Know what he said?   Paraphrased "What am i going to teach Bobby Orr freaking Orr?  I mean it's Bobby Orr!! We just divided the two units, Orr took the top one, and I took the other one".... Not the only coach either Makarov in SJ used to take the chalk and cross out Crisps' systems and plays "No no no doing it all wrong comrade" lol...so he put him with Larionov and three other guys and they literally practiced on their own...worked too ... gave them teeth early on.   Detroit getting Larionov out of SJ set them up from losing to them again lol (and cups!).   

 

In other words the players themselves also create a lot of what happens on the ice.   Good PKers don't usually become bad ones playing a "system" same with good PP's.    Thing is teams get video on every other team, our PP and PK hasn't really changed or adapted.    It's mostly on the players to not do the same darn things each game - if they are that scared of not doing Bomber or Greens wishes then that's something i've never seen before, not even from Keenan. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by IBatch

[73 Percent]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The other positive, and yes it's hard to find any these days, is seemed like during Markstrom last couple seasons the shot clock against was often in the 35-45 range ... Markstrom and Demko were often left out high and dry.   5 x 5 you can tell they are trying for sure, lack of effort isn't the issue.   One thing Green's actually managed during his tenure here in general.   Can't fix playing 8-10th Ds peppered throughout the lineup....our PK?   Absolutely brutal.    Is Shaw the reason our 5 x 5 play shows we can play again most teams?   Or is that just our forward group as a whole getting better?   I don't know.   A coaching change might not improve the effort level much other then fear of losing minutes.   Systems yes.    McDavid and Co don't really have a system per say on their PP - he's publicly stated it's so good because they constantly change things up using their skill to run it.   Shows what a top personnel can do.   And good on the coach for not messing with that!

 

Cherry has talked about doing their PP drills.   Know what he said?   Paraphrased "What am i going to teach Bobby Orr freaking Orr?  I mean it's Bobby Orr!! We just divided the two units, Orr took the top one, and I took the other one".... Not the only coach either Makarov in SJ used to take the chalk and cross out Crisps' systems and plays "No no no doing it all wrong comrade" lol...so he put him with Larionov and three other guys and they literally practiced on their own...worked too ... gave them teeth early on.   Detroit getting Larionov out of SJ set them up from losing to them again lol (and cups!).   

 

In other words the players themselves also create a lot of what happens on the ice.   Good PKers don't usually become bad ones playing a "system" same with good PP's.    Thing is teams get video on every other team, our PP and PK hasn't really changed or adapted.    It's mostly on the players to not do the same darn things each game - if they are that scared of not doing Bomber or Greens wishes then that's something i've never seen before, not even from Keenan. 

C'mon lol. 

 

You dont think coaches have gameplans that players are expected to follow. And you don't think that if the players don't follow it they ride pine or get chewed out? You even said it in your post "thing is teams get video on every other team". So what do you think they do with that information? Nothing? Or come up with a gameplan. 

 

To support my theory over yours I present you Nate Schmidt. Great player for the caps. Great player for the knights. $&!#ty with us. Great for Winnipeg. 

 

That's suspicious. I guess that was all on him eh. Must not have liked the food in Vancouver. 

 

Or maybe it's the coaching staff and the way they deploy players. 

 

[JM_]

10 hours ago, khay said:

Sedins are another example. They became stars after Bertuzzi left and taking over prime role from Naslund. Although that transition was more amicable as Naslund was no where near cancer that Duschene was, in fact he was like a saint: retiring once he felt he didn't live up to the salary that he was getting.

 

As I said in other threads and I know it's unpopular and crazy to suggest this but I think that the player blocking EP's way is Miller. I hate saying this because I think when Miller plays to his strengths, he is an absolute beast of a player and a guy that we desperately need on this team as we saw in 2019-20 season.

 

With Green, Miller will always be playing the prime role. If a new coach comes in and re-assigns the roles then I could see where keeping Miller could work. And like I said, I'm not suggesting a rift between Petey and Miller just as there was no rift between Nazzy and Sedins.

 

I'm not as opposed to moving Miller as others are, as long as its for a piece that makes sense. But maybe the lotto line is over, teams have solved it but Green seems incapable of finding other line combo's that work.

 

The problem for me is I don't want to see any personnel changes before Green is removed, I think we could make a big mistake if we do.

Edited November 19, 2021 by JM_

[JM_]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

The other positive, and yes it's hard to find any these days, is seemed like during Markstrom last couple seasons the shot clock against was often in the 35-45 range ... Markstrom and Demko were often left out high and dry.   5 x 5 you can tell they are trying for sure, lack of effort isn't the issue.   One thing Green's actually managed during his tenure here in general.   Can't fix playing 8-10th Ds peppered throughout the lineup....our PK?   Absolutely brutal.    Is Shaw the reason our 5 x 5 play shows we can play again most teams?   Or is that just our forward group as a whole getting better?   I don't know.   A coaching change might not improve the effort level much other then fear of losing minutes.   Systems yes.    McDavid and Co don't really have a system per say on their PP - he's publicly stated it's so good because they constantly change things up using their skill to run it.   Shows what a top personnel can do.   And good on the coach for not messing with that!

 

Cherry has talked about doing their PP drills.   Know what he said?   Paraphrased "What am i going to teach Bobby Orr freaking Orr?  I mean it's Bobby Orr!! We just divided the two units, Orr took the top one, and I took the other one".... Not the only coach either Makarov in SJ used to take the chalk and cross out Crisps' systems and plays "No no no doing it all wrong comrade" lol...so he put him with Larionov and three other guys and they literally practiced on their own...worked too ... gave them teeth early on.   Detroit getting Larionov out of SJ set them up from losing to them again lol (and cups!).   

 

In other words the players themselves also create a lot of what happens on the ice.   Good PKers don't usually become bad ones playing a "system" same with good PP's.    Thing is teams get video on every other team, our PP and PK hasn't really changed or adapted.    It's mostly on the players to not do the same darn things each game - if they are that scared of not doing Bomber or Greens wishes then that's something i've never seen before, not even from Keenan. 

I just can't see Green giving the PP unit that kind of autonomy on the PP, but I'd love to see them let the players decide on the configuration.

 

As far as the PK goes I think its a mix of systems and also missing a guy like Beagle. So much whining about him on CDC, but he was so willing to get into a lane he broke bones.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by JM_