[proposal] An aggressive “re-tool” that actually expedites the process of us becoming good?

[Patel Bure]

Just now, BigTramFan said:

Thanks for the update on Schneider. At least Seider and Dobson have shown they can step up to the NHL (although I notice Dobson is really struggling this season taking the next step up without some key players on D to insulate his play).

 

I personally think Miller or Horvat would be worth A LOT more than just 1 prospect like Schneider. More like: Schneider + Kraztsov + 1st round pick (if trading with NYR).

I didn't realize Dobson was struggling.  I read a report that said he was thriving and that he was playing alongside Chara on the top pairing?  

[BigTramFan]

6 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I didn't realize Dobson was struggling.  I read a report that said he was thriving and that he was playing alongside Chara on the top pairing?  

I think that whole NYI team is struggling. They were missing Leddy (gone to Detroit) and Pulock (injury). I think Chara and Greene have very much declined in terms of speed. Can't keep up with the way that NYI like to play. Now the team is severely affected by covid with lots of players out (just about their whole top 6 D corps).

 

So it's been tough all-round and I'm certainly not putting the blame on a young guy like Dobson. He has had to step up to more ice time even before the covid hit. However, I don't think he has thrived with the step up at all. He has been OK and still has quite a bit of development to go before he is a legit top 4 Dman.

 

Still believe the kid can be considered "untouchable" but thinking it is very easy to be enamoured with a prospect, but they don't all turn out to be gold!

[Canuck Luck]

On 11/24/2021 at 5:08 PM, Patel Bure said:

I don't know what constitutes fair value.  

That is literally the issue in your trade threads. No offence.

[Patel Bure]

12 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said:

That is literally the issue in your trade threads. No offence.

No offence taken.  We aren't real GM's just crazy fans on a message board. 

 

If you think you have a strong idea of what constitutes fair value, make your own proposal.  :-p

[Canuck Luck]

2 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

No offence taken.  We aren't real GM's just crazy fans on a message board. 

 

If you think you have a strong idea of what constitutes fair value, make your own proposal.  :-p

I don't. Which is why I don't make ridiculous proposals lol.

[mrturkish]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:56 PM, Patel Bure said:

[proposal] An aggressive “re-tool” that actually expedites the process of us becoming good?

 

This thread isn’t designed to debate as to whether we should keep or trade ‘x’ player.  There are plenty of other threads for that.   This thread was created to show how the Canucks can possibly “aggressively retool” starting now and still be able to field a competitive team as early as next season.  So let’s get started.  
 

1) Can we all agree that both Horvat and Miller are capable to landing us a 1st round pick AND/OR an elite prospect?  If so, let’s just say that Horvat and Miller can land us the following.

 

A) Horvat lands us Braden Schneider

B-) Miller lands us Anton Lundell  
 

Again, these are just conservative estimates.  Perhaps the Canucks can land another 1st from the above.  
 

2) With the loss of both Horvat and Miller from this season, the Canucks completely tank and finish at or near the bottom......which puts us in the Shane Wright sweepstakes.  To be conservative however, let’s pretend that we don’t land Shane Wright and instead, end up drafting a guy like Conor Geekie.

 

3) At the end of the season, the Canucks fire Jim Benning and also hire, or have already hired, a proven winning coach (interim = Brad Shaw; end of season hire = Claude Julien, Bruce Beaudreau, or Mike Babcock).

 

4) We sign and extend Brock to a 7.5 million x 8 year deal (let us not debate as to whether this is a good move or not......but my line not thinking here is that if we can extend Brock long term, it could convince Petey to sign with us long term as well).

 

5) Now here is where the fun starts.  Pretend that you are one of the UFA’s in 2022 and you’re looking for your next long term opportunity.......and you and your agent decide to assess the Canucks from both a short term and long term perspective:

 

Long term Canucks team (2023-2024?)

 

Podkolzin-Pettersson-Garland

Hoglander-Geekie-Boeser

#####-Lundell-Klimovich

####-####-Lockwood
 

Hughes-Schneider

OEL-Myers

Rathbone-Poolman

 

Demko

Dipietro

 

Coach = Julien/Beaudreau/Babcock

GM = not Benning

 

You, as a 2022 UFA, look at this team and say to yourself, “wow - Id better wear some shades because the future of this team looks really bright.  They’re going to be really effing good pretty soon and I want to be a part of that ride.”

 

I guess the point I’m trying to make here is that if we move Horvat and Miller now, and follow the above template, this team could actually be pretty “desirable looking” from a UFA perspective as early as July 1st 2022......especially if we land Shane Wright instead of Conor Geekie.  

I’ve given up on what you think is a re tool. It doesn’t matter until the new coach comes in. Leave the team until that coach has a chance to evaluate the team. I’m so thankful some of you keyboard warriors aren’t the GM or the COACH. 

 

[Patel Bure]

48 minutes ago, mrturkish said:

I’ve given up on what you think is a re tool. It doesn’t matter until the new coach comes in. Leave the team until that coach has a chance to evaluate the team. I’m so thankful some of you keyboard warriors aren’t the GM or the COACH. 

 

Here’s my problem with the new coach theory.  Even if a new coach comes in here and turns the team around, do you see us going 40-21 for the remainder of the season?  (Which is approximately what it would take for us to qualify to the playoffs this season?).  
 

Even if the Canucks were to finish very strong this season and miss the playoffs, it would be another season in which we missed the playoffs.  Maybe we’d make the playoffs the following year, but ask yourself, “even with a new coach, would you expect this core to compete with the elite teams in this league?  The Florida’s, Carolina’s, Edmonton’s, Tampa’s, Vegas, Colorado, and Washington’s of this league?  I don’t know.....I’m inclined to say no.

 

Is the goal to make the playoffs or win the cup?   
 

That’s why I say - if before July 1st of 2022, the Canucks can......

 

1) Acquire two very elite prospects for Horvat and Miller.

2) Get a Shane Wright or a Conor Geekie at the draft 

3) Replace Green and Benning at the end of the season

 

I actually think some UFA’s on July 1st will give us a serious look since we could be perceived as a team with a legit bright future.

 

Ps - the only thing I’ll say that is different from my OP, is to not make the Horvat and Miller deals until the trade deadline.  Give our current team every opportunity to fight and push their way back to salavage this season.  The last you want to do is trade Horvat and Miller too early, and then have the boys start coasting through the season from December onwards.  

[MaxVerstappen33]

On 11/25/2021 at 9:10 AM, Patel Bure said:

Fair enough.  My point being that both Horvat and Miller should be able to land you Atleast two elite prospects in total.  
 

So maybe Braden Schneider is one, and another guy out there is two (ie Kent Johnson from Columbus?........I’m guessing that Cole Sillinger is untouchable at this point for us).

 

So - we land two very elite prospects for Horvat and Miller, tank the rest of this year, and then land someone like Wright or Geekie in the draft.   All the while keeping everyone on our team outside of Horvat and Miller.  Now all of a sudden, a 2022 UFA looks at our team and says, “these guys look promising long term, and maybe I can even help these guys short term while those young diamonds develop.”

 

 

This is basically what i was advocating in my 2 year rebuild thread. The biggest reason for any of these ideas is that this season is already lost.