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key2thecup

Us Pastor Terry Jones Holds Koran Burning Vigil Again

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Realistically, blaming the pastor for actions of people on the other side of the world is plain silly. Are we going to outlaw the GOP's pro-life platform because some knuckle dragger from Georgia or Alabama might blow up an abortion clinic or shoot a doctor? Should we outlaw Democrats from stating their pro-choice platform because some knuckle dragger from Georgia or Alabama might blow up an abortion clinic or shoot a doctor?

Maybe it's time to wonder why such a harmless act causes such irrational response and fix THAT. Or! We could continue bickering about how big of an arsehole this guy is, while the US military machine blows up Muslim's children.

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I agree, burning books is stupid and irrational, but remember this guy is a pastor when speaking of what rational people do think. It is an extension of the freedom to say (communicate is a better term) what you want, so long as it does not cause immediate panic or incites criminal action. He expresses his sentiments toward Islam by burning their holy book, in this case the medium of communication is not spoken word, but it is still a communication.

I also must disagree with you on Romney. The fact he's going to run at all shows the GOP threw the towel in before the election was even thought of.

http://www.businessi...mneys-vp-2012-4 :lol:;)

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Realistically, blaming the pastor for actions of people on the other side of the world is plain silly. Are we going to outlaw the GOP's pro-life platform because some knuckle dragger from Georgia or Alabama might blow up an abortion clinic or shoot a doctor? Should we outlaw Democrats from stating their pro-choice platform because some knuckle dragger from Georgia or Alabama might blow up an abortion clinic or shoot a doctor?

Maybe it's time to wonder why such a harmless act causes such irrational response and fix THAT. Or! We could continue bickering about how big of an arsehole this guy is, while the US military machine blows up Muslim's children.

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you say you agree that burning books is stupid and irrational and yet you say that a rational person will accept that this is a valid expression of freedom of speech ,i believe that something that is stupid and irrational is not a valid form of anything, by definition some thing that is irrational is , without the faculty of reason , deprived of reason , without or deprived of normal mental clarity or sound judgment , do you consider anyone acting in this way to be acting in a valid way ?. and if you want to take it one step further , if you burn a book which as you say is some one else's expression of free speech are you not in some way interferring with their right to freedom of speech ?

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I don't really think that anyone can argue that Jones is within his rights to do what he is doing. However, he must realize that his actions put real people in real danger. It's all well and good to argue that those people shouldn't be in Afghanistan, but the fact is, that's where they are and Jones knows it.

This makes his actions, if not illegal, at least highly irresponsible. While it's true that he's not responsible for the actions of people on the other side of the world, I liken it to someone tossing a hornet's nest into the middle of a picnic.

The person doing the tossing isn't stinging anyone, so is he responsible for the actions of the hornets?

I'd say he is. YMMV.

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do you really wonder why what you consider to be a harmless act could inflame and infuriate people who hold this book to be a sacred and holy thing . i am aware that you seem to be a person that values knowledge and even though you do not hold much to be sacred surely you respect the right of others to do so ,and you have enough knowledge of human nature to understand why this would trigger feelings of anger and enmity in them .

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I don't really think that anyone can argue that Jones is within his rights to do what he is doing. However, he must realize that his actions put real people in real danger. It's all well and good to argue that those people shouldn't be in Afghanistan, but the fact is, that's where they are and Jones knows it.

This makes his actions, if not illegal, at least highly irresponsible. While it's true that he's not responsible for the actions of people on the other side of the world, I liken it to someone tossing a hornet's nest into the middle of a picnic.

The person doing the tossing isn't stinging anyone, so is he responsible for the actions of the hornets?

I'd say he is. YMMV.

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The judgement of humans--even Islamic militants--should be placed on the same level as that of hornets?

BTW, with the coalition forces willingly going into Afghanistan, I'd more liken it to the picnickers willingly walking into the hornets' nest than anybody throwing it at them.  Liken what he's doing to making an agitating sound that aggravates the hornets even further.

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No, because there are plenty more copies of the same books to go around and nobody's been deprived of the chance to read one because of it. If anything, he's just guilty of wasting paper and polluting the air.

Anyways, who are you to decide for other people what is "valid" and acceptable expression anyways? Your opinion and judgement on this are just as valid as his or anyone else's. Would you like some central authority to decide what is acceptable and what isn't, and become the Minister of Acceptable and Valid Expression?

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mate was i replying to you , no i was not , you never bother adressing the problem you just reply in a way that shows you have no compassion or empathy for anyone who does not share your views. scorpio agreed with me that the actions of this man were irrational , as i have pointed out behaving in an irrational way is without the faculty of reason , deprived of reason , without or deprived of normal mental clarity or sound judgment , and if you are acting in this way then i do not consider you actions are valid .

i am not trying to decide for anybody else what is valid and what is not , i am engaged in a debate and as you said i am giving my opinion on the matter just like you are .

no i would not like a central authority to decide jack sh!t for me or anyone else and your comment about me being a minister of acceptable and valid epression reeks of an immature mentality and a desire to ridicule me rather than put forward a reasonable argument as to why you disagree with my point of view

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I'd like to think that for every force, there's an equal and opposite counterforce. For all the brainwashing that these fanatics are subjected to to become the way they are, there should be a counterbalancing and deprogramming influence.

Burning Qurans may be a crude, unintellectual and mean spirited way to go about it, but again, it's for neither you nor me to draw the line in the sand and decide what falls on the valid and acceptable side, and what doesn't. There have been more elaborately and intelligently made satire and critiques of the Islamic faith that have also gotten their creators killed or subject to death threats.

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What an idiot this guy is. Way pick a fight with over 1 billion Muslims. Someone should burn HIM.

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What an idiot this guy is. Way pick a fight with over 1 billion Muslims. Someone should burn HIM.

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Hooray for violent overreactions :rolleyes:

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Rest assured I'm not trying to ridicule you, but just putting you on the spot and making you justify yourself. My comment was quite serious, and there was no humour intended.

We can all agree that the guy is a mean spirited jackass, but arguments of compassion or empathy have to take a back seat to that of principle. And the principle of free speech, whether you agree with them or not, or consider them to be irrational and inane or not, trumps the feelings of those who take their religion way too seriously.

The onus is really on the Islamic fanatics to take a more mature stand, ignore the idiot and stop giving him the attention that he craves so much.

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you continually refer t o the right of free speech but you do not seem to want to believe that with freedom comes responsibility , the responsiblity to act in a way that is not detrimental to the lives of others . every one i have spoken to about this from my doctor , my strict catholic parents , all my friends all agree {which is extremely rare } that this is not a valid expression of freedom of speech , while this does make our opinion right it heartens me to know that the people in my life think as i do in regards to this .

i do not want to make laws or change them or try to MAKE people act in the way i think we should all behave in , by stating my opinion i hope that some people see what i am saying is right , that we should treat others with dignity and respect , that we should treat their beliefs with the same respect that we would like our own beliefs accorded . the onus is on us all to make this world a place that future generations can live in peace and harmony .

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The fact is, out of all the people in the world, there will always be a few crap disturbers that'll do things to get a rise out of people. The religious fanatics will have to accept this fact and adapt accordingly.

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