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Justin Trudeau - Suffering from Foot in Mouth - Canadian Style


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#151 Harbinger

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:56 PM

"In June 2012, Wurzelbacher's election campaign released a video in which he claimed that the implementation of gun control resulted in Europe’s Jews being unable to defend themselves during the Holocaust, explaining that "In 1939, Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, six million Jews and seven million others unable to defend themselves were exterminated." In the same video, Wurzelbacher stated that the implementation of gun control by the Ottoman Empire in 1911 resulted in Armenians being unable to defend themselves against the Armenian Genocide.[83][84][85][86][87]
The video drew sharp criticism from the National Jewish Democratic Council (NJDC) and Ohio Democratic Party Chairman Chris Redfern.[88][89]
Wurzelbacher subsequently defended the video, stating that "Different countries around the world have tried to disarm their citizens, and then have tried to exterminate their own now-unarmed citizens. If people are looking to be offended by this video, they are probably serving a political agenda. Unfortunately there are a lot of whiners out there." Wurzelbacher's spokesman, Phil Christofanelli, also defended the video, stating that Wurzelbacher was a "student of history" who knows that the Founding Fathers "understood that the 2nd Amendment was always the people's last defense against tyrannical government."[84]

In August 2012, Wurzelbacher drew criticism for a comment he made about illegal immigration. During a campaign rally for Arizona State Rep. Lori Klein, Wurzelbacher said, "For years I’ve said, you know, put a damn fence on the border, going to Mexico and start shooting.”[90]
When asked about the comment later, he said that he didn't care about being "politically incorrect." Klein defended Wurzelbacher, telling reporters his comments were just a joke"

What a guy .. definite leadership qualities ..



I know the guy is stupid. Everyone does. He has a solid track record of ignorance as well as stupidity.


The guy looked better to a lot of americans before he opened his mouth. And that my friend is the point that I was making.
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#152 Tearloch7

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:07 PM

I know the guy is stupid. Everyone does. He has a solid track record of ignorance as well as stupidity.


The guy looked better to a lot of americans before he opened his mouth. And that my friend is the point that I was making.


Thank you for clarifying that .. I am ever amazed at the "ignorance" of the average voter .. people voting in a way equal to the old idiom "cutting off their nose to spite their face" ..
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#153 Harbinger

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:17 PM

Nope, not in the least.


I'm sure when you were going in front of the judge. You always went in with the least amount of knowledge about your adversary as you could because that would obviously make your argument against him much more poignant.
You probably made the smallest dossier you could against them because you know how having fewer amounts of ammo is definitely a smarter strategy than having more than your opponent.



Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
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Edited by Harbinger, 26 November 2012 - 10:24 PM.

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#154 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:33 PM

I'm sure when you were going in front of the judge. You always went in with the least amount of knowledge about your adversary as you could because that would obviously make your argument against him much more poignant.
You probably made the smallest dossier you could against them because you know how having fewer amounts of ammo is definitely a smarter strategy than having more than your opponent.



Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
Sun Tzu

That makes zero sense in the context of the discussion of Justin Trudeau's resume and fitness as Liberal leader.
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#155 Harbinger

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:37 PM

That makes zero sense in the context of the discussion of Justin Trudeau's resume and fitness as Liberal leader.



That was exactly the point. When running against an opponent in a campaign it's much better to have more info on them than less. If you are relegated to your only viable attack is that you don't know him or he doesn't have a track record. Then that limits your ability to put forth a multiple pronged campaign.

Edited by Harbinger, 26 November 2012 - 10:40 PM.

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#156 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:39 PM

That was exactly the point. When running against an opponent in a campaign it's much better to have more info on them than less.

Yes... and?

In a political campaign if you have no track record, that will be the weakness that will be attacked.
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#157 Harbinger

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

Yes... and?

In a political campaign if you have no track record, that will be the weakness that will be attacked.


I must have edited while you were responding and my answer to that is actual in the edit.
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#158 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:07 PM

I must have edited while you were responding and my answer to that is actual in the edit.

The edit still makes no sense.

If you are running for leadership and then putting yourself forward as Prime Minister, having no record and no experience would seem to be a serious handicap.
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#159 Harbinger

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:26 PM

The edit still makes no sense.

If you are running for leadership and then putting yourself forward as Prime Minister, having no record and no experience would seem to be a serious handicap.


In some cases that may be the case. So far that doesn't seem to be the case with the young Trudeau. The party seems very squarely behind him at this point.

I still find it funny that anyone would proclaim that a riding that has been held by conservatives for 4 decades in Alberta could be considered a litmus test for Trudeau. Any pundit who said anything like that should be ridiculed and flogged for that kind of idiocy.

Edited by Harbinger, 26 November 2012 - 11:27 PM.

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#160 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:27 PM

It looks like the Conservatives are holding on to the Calgary Centre riding as CBC News projects with Tory candidate Joan Crockatt ahead with 37 per cent of the vote to Liberal Harvey Locke's 32.6 per cent with 253 of 263 polls reporting. Harvey Locke for the Libs has now conceded, Did the comments from McGuintyy and Trudeau make a difference?

The Conservatives held Durham with Erin O'Toole as the runaway winner, retaining the Tory seat in the riding northeast of Toronto with 50.7 per cent and all polls reporting. The seat was formerly held by onetime Conservative MP and cabinet minister Bev Oda before she resigned in July under a public uproar about her ministerial expenses.

In Victoria it is a close battle between the Green Party's Donald Galloway and NDP candidate Murray Rankin in a race that has see-sawed throughout the night. Murray is a longtime friend who was a professor when I attended law school and he would make an excellent MP IMHO. He is well-versed in freedom of information, aboriginal and environmental issues and was a founding member of the BC Public Interest Advocacy Centre.
http://live.cbc.ca/E...ght_byelections

The latest - Victoria 205/256 polls reporting #ndp 37.0% , greens 34.3% , #cpc 14.7%, #Lib13.0%.


Edit - The CBC decision desk has just called the Victoria race as a win for the NDP.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 26 November 2012 - 11:42 PM.

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#161 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:39 PM

In some cases that may be the case. So far that doesn't seem to be the case with the young Trudeau. The party seems very squarely behind him at this point.

I still find it funny that anyone would proclaim that a riding that has been held by conservatives for 4 decades in Alberta could be considered a litmus test for Trudeau. Any pundit who said anything like that should be ridiculed and flogged for that kind of idiocy.

The Liberal leadership race has yet to really start and then even if Trudeau wins he has to contend with being the third party behind the NDP. If he wins the leadership Mulcair and the NDP are more of an issue than Harper and the Conservatives. Also it remains to be seen how the other leadership candidates and their supporters choose their strategy and if they choose to attack Trudeau as Justin did on behalf of Dion when he went after Ignatieff. The Conservatives made good use of Justin's anti-Ignatieff comments (he had intelligence but Justin questioned his wisdom and political savvy) when Ignatieff became Liberal leader.

The polls in Calgary Centre were suggesting a dead heat between the Conservatives and Liberals but it was not near as close in the final result. Several pundits suggested that Liberal support was bled off due to the McGuinty and trudeau comments and parked with the Greens and NDP. Traditionally by-elections have results with voters sending a message to government - that does not seem to have occurred here and Crockatt was a fairly weak candidate.
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#162 Tearloch7

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:44 PM

Wet .. is Murray Harry Rankin's son? .. firebrand from my youth .. good man!!
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#163 Harbinger

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:49 PM

The Liberal leadership race has yet to really start and then even if Trudeau wins he has to contend with being the third party behind the NDP. If he wins the leadership Mulcair and the NDP are more of an issue than Harper and the Conservatives. Also it remains to be seen how the other leadership candidates and their supporters choose their strategy and if they choose to attack Trudeau as Justin did on behalf of Dion when he went after Ignatieff. The Conservatives made good use of Justin's anti-Ignatieff comments (he had intelligence but Justin questioned his wisdom and political savvy) when Ignatieff became Liberal leader.

The polls in Calgary Centre were suggesting a dead heat between the Conservatives and Liberals but it was not near as close in the final result. Several pundits suggested that Liberal support was bled off due to the McGuinty and trudeau comments and parked with the Greens and NDP. Traditionally by-elections have results with voters sending a message to government - that does not seem to have occurred here and Crockatt was a fairly weak candidate.



They could have run the corpse of Michael Jackson in that riding and as long as it said conservative on the ballot he would have won.
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#164 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:50 PM

Wet .. is Murray Harry Rankin's son? .. firebrand from my youth .. good man!!

No. Different family.

Harry (RIP) had a son Phil who is a lawyer and a friend.
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#165 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:51 PM

They could have run the corpse of Michael Jackson in that riding and as long as it said conservative on the ballot he would have won.

Apparently not if the polls were to be believed.
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#166 Harbinger

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:58 PM

Apparently not if the polls were to be believed.


The only poll that counts bore it out.
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#167 Dral

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:01 AM

It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

- DouglasAdams


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Fruits?

Lord Peaches' gut is telling him that the drunken fool, aka Dral, is 100% mafia.

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Dral is 100% mafia or I will masteb_ _ _ _ a cow and like it

GOATis?

Vig kill dral he never talks like this when he's not mafia.

 


#168 Tearloch7

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:13 AM

No. Different family.

Harry (RIP) had a son Phil who is a lawyer and a friend.


Thank you .. I always admired Harry .. a man of principle, I believe ..
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#169 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:15 AM

The only poll that counts bore it out.

Or the McGuinty and Trudeau comments had a measurable effect as the polls pre-dated the comments.
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#170 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:21 AM

It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.


- DouglasAdams



This is the conundrum we face :sadno:
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#171 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

Thank you .. I always admired Harry .. a man of principle, I believe ..

But loud, profane and a pain in the butt at times.

Here is how his son Phil described him - “Even my dad’s virtues could be his vices. He could be overbearing, arrogant, egotistical.”

Or Mike Harcourt (whom Harry thought was an egghead dilettante) wrote of Harry in his 1996 autobiography - Rankin “practiced what I used to call the ‘Stalinist approach’ on council: If I cannot out-argue you, I will out-shout you. If I cannot out-shout you, I will assassinate your character.”

If you get a chance read his autobiography - “Harry’s Law: Recollections of a Radical.”

Edited by Wetcoaster, 27 November 2012 - 12:27 AM.

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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#172 Tearloch7

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:16 AM

But loud, profane and a pain in the butt at times.

Here is how his son Phil described him - “Even my dad’s virtues could be his vices. He could be overbearing, arrogant, egotistical.”

Or Mike Harcourt (whom Harry thought was an egghead dilettante) wrote of Harry in his 1996 autobiography - Rankin “practiced what I used to call the ‘Stalinist approach’ on council: If I cannot out-argue you, I will out-shout you. If I cannot out-shout you, I will assassinate your character.”

If you get a chance read his autobiography - “Harry’s Law: Recollections of a Radical.”


I will .. and thanks ..
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#173 inane

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:27 AM

Funny, I always thought 'the only poll that counts is election day'.
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#174 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:02 AM

Funny, I always thought 'the only poll that counts is election day'.

According to WAC Bennett.

However what was being predicted as a dead heat between the Conservatives and Liberals before the Trudeau and McGuinty comments ended up being not all that close. That will be part of the post election grist for the mill by political pundits and analysts.

Were the polls wrong or did the comments and the use of said comments by the Conservatives stop the Liberal momentum? Strategists form all federal parties will be reading the tea leaves to try to discern the real meaning and if it holds lessons for the future.

In the past such Conservative strategy has proved successful and the Liberals have employed a similar strategy in the past to try to brand Harper as too dangerous to lead Canada.
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#175 inane

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:05 AM

According to WAC Bennett.

However what was being predicted as a dead heat between the Conservatives and Liberals before the Trudeau and McGuinty comments ended up being not all that close. That will be part of the post election grist for the mill by political pundits and analysts.

Were the polls wrong or did the comments and the use of said comments by the Conservatives stop the Liberal momentum? Strategists form all federal parties will be reading the tea leaves to try to discern the real meaning and if it holds lessons for the future.

In the past such Conservative strategy has proved successful and the Liberals have employed a similar strategy in the past to try to brand Harper as too dangerous to lead Canada.


point = missed.
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#176 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:15 AM

point = missed.

Nope.

The point was irrelevant.
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#177 inane

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:07 PM

Nope.

The point was irrelevant.


The point is that in several other threads you've blown off polls as irrelevant, yet use them for your argument here. You may find that irrelevant, so be it.

This whole thread is just an excuse to bash someone you clearly don't like. That's fine, but at least call a spade a spade.
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#178 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:20 PM

The point is that in several other threads you've blown off polls as irrelevant, yet use them for your argument here. You may find that irrelevant, so be it.

This whole thread is just an excuse to bash someone you clearly don't like. That's fine, but at least call a spade a spade.

And you are incorrect.
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#179 inane

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

And you are incorrect.


You declaring that does not make it true. But whatever.
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#180 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

You declaring that does not make it true. But whatever.

You are still incorrect.

When the WAC Bennett quote is used in context it is an illustration of the old adage that the race is not over until it is over.

That is quite different from using polls to track trends and analyse where a campaign that looked to be trending for a candidate suddenly goes off the rails. The postmortem in the by-election victory for the Conservatives in Calgary Centre will be looking at such things and trying to determine how much effect the McGuinty and Trudeau comments had on the final outcome.

For Liberal leadership candidates it may signal a weakness for Trudeau that can be exploited to advance their campaigns as we have already seen from Martha Hall Findlay. Also the manner in which Trudeau answered the bell on this is a test of his team and it IMHO he handled it poorly. That may give Liberal movers and shakers (and in particular donors pause for concern).

This is going to be of interest to the Liberals, Conservatives and the NDP as it was test run of strategies that could be effective during the next general election and even following the Liberal leadership results. The Conservatives have honed a strategy of early messaging and staying on a simple consistent message so this could provide them with a valuable PR advantage. And since the Liberals first task is to try to overtake the NDP both those parties will be looking at what transpired as well.

If you read the OP you would have noted that it evolved from the McGuinty thread with his Go back to Alberta theme and looked at how Trudeua's comments have played into the longheld view in Alberta of being considered rubes by the Liberal Party - just shut up and deliver the resources dollars and do not interfere with how your betters run Canada as they know best. Trudeau's weak response has done nothing to dispel that issue.

"Bashing"????? It is known as informed criticism.

So as i said, you are incorrect.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.




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