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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#1741 eretz canucks

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:04 AM

bozak, kadri, first.
the first is the only real asset there and hopefully after ripping 2 centermen from them, they will miss the playoffs.
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#1742 DeNiro

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:08 AM

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Eklund has Luongo going to Toronto as an e5.

So it looks like he's going to Florida then.
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#1743 GLASSJAW

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:26 AM

Is anyone else praying to the good god above that we don't trade with Toronto?

Kadri and Bozak?! Isn't Bozak a free agent at the end of the year? So that's Kadri--a player who can't even perform consistently for the tragically awful Leafs, and, essentially, a rent-a-player who, if he performs well at all, is due for a raise.

No thanks.

I don't think Luongo will get much in return, especially compared to the optimistic offers you see tossed around here. But I hope the inevitable disappointment comes from a team outside of Ontario.
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#1744 King of the ES

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:42 AM

And Gardiner is worth more than Weiss as well?
Reilly?
Bjugstad?


Of course, all of the above.

You're showing an inability to look at anything besides current production when gauging a player's value. On this basis, then, do you think Chris Higgins is worth more than Nick Jensen?
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#1745 King of the ES

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:51 AM

Has anyone thought about the possibility of Briere+ for Luongo? I know he has injury problems, but could he work on Kesler's wing? I don't think his value is out of reach for Luongo to fetch, but tell me if I'm wrong.


Would love to get him, but that's a big cap hit ($6.5M). There'd need to be more players involved.

I'd say that Briere's probably a more realistic target from Philly than either of the 3 that oldnews mentioned, though.
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#1746 King of the ES

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:54 AM

Everyone seems to be worried about the 1 year rental thing for whatever reason; whereas, I see it as giving the team more options and money for next season.


I tend to agree. Other moves can be made to accommodate a good fit. If Weiss were acquired, and if he fit in very good, re-signing him would not be an issue.
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#1747 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:23 AM

I tend to agree. Other moves can be made to accommodate a good fit. If Weiss were acquired, and if he fit in very good, re-signing him would not be an issue.


I agree, although I think it would be a tough thing trying to re-sign him next year.

Weiss makes 3.1 Right now and he will get a raise, somewhere in the neighbor hood of 4-5+ IMO, can we afford that and Edler at 5-6+? Not sure, Raymond would have to go, Ballard would be gone, That would also usher Higgins out the door probably, I would love Weiss, not sure how realistic it is from Florida's side, but I think if Weiss was coming here we would probably want a prospect (Petrovic?) and a condidtional pick perhaps.

I wouldn't mind something like Kadri, Bozak, Franson, 2nd from Toronto though I think that is reasonable for both sides, Toronto doesn't give up any major roster or younger pieces, Bozak is a pending UFA (They have some top 9 capables center's: Grabovksi, Connolly, Lombardi, McClement, Colbourne? JVR?) Kadri is probably coming here in any deal, Franson struggled big time there last year, he was in and out of the line-up so his value is at an all time low, he doesn't really want to be there, but he did sign a 1 yr deal so he doesn't have much leverage but I don't think he will stick around forever unless he has a change of heart and the Leafs just signed Mottau, they have Phaneuf, Liles, Gardiner, Gunnarsson, maybe Komisarek can regain a significant role under Carlyle's system, Holzer is also a more steady guy who is seems ready to go, aswell there is talk of Rielly perhaps being ready, so they have options not that Franson is a big loss, then they give up a 2nd rather than a 1st.

For us it adds depth in 2 key area's going forward for this year, aswell as a good prospect and a 2nd which could be a good player if we draft right, so a few additions to the cupboard, I think it is pretty reasonable for both sides, what do you think?

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 13 January 2013 - 06:25 AM.

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#1748 nzan

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:55 AM

I keep seeing this Kadri/Bozak combination - why would either team want to do that?


Toronto would want to do that because they get to unload a couple of underachieving spare parts to Vancouver for a world class goaltender. Vancouver fans would do that because they've swallowed the wave of garbage that originated from the Toronto media - that they're going to take Luongo, but only as a favour to Vancouver.
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#1749 King of the ES

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

Weiss makes 3.1 Right now and he will get a raise, somewhere in the neighbor hood of 4-5+ IMO, can we afford that and Edler at 5-6+? Not sure, Raymond would have to go, Ballard would be gone, That would also usher Higgins out the door probably, I would love Weiss, not sure how realistic it is from Florida's side, but I think if Weiss was coming here we would probably want a prospect (Petrovic?) and a condidtional pick perhaps.


That's why MG is paid what he is. He has tough decisions to make.

Although I'm not a big fan of Weiss myself, if MG instead targeted a specific prospect/pick package that would not really help us this year, and we flame out, I'd call that a pretty critical error. Who knows when Kesler will be back, and even when he's back, there'll be endless questions about whether or not he "came back too quick", etc. More excuses for non-performance, if that happens. I don't want to hear them.

The Canucks should be trying to win now. Nobody likes to talk about this, but the Sedin's are getting older, and their production did decline last year, which is probably the start of a trend that we'll see persist until they retire.
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#1750 crazyforhockey

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

everybodies stats in the west was dramitically down......moastly due to a very very competitive west....

henrik was still the top west pt getter and thats without Daniel for ten games ....and a strugglling injury plagued 2nd line.... so I wouldnt read alot into that...example first 48 gms henrik 11-31=52pts daniel 20-30=50pts

Edited by crazyforhockey, 13 January 2013 - 09:40 AM.

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#1751 WiDeN

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:37 AM

I guess u didnt hear the nonis interview that he said he would only move young players if TO was getttin some young players in return.

I thought he was specifically asked about Reilly when he said that, and then the broadcasters threw in Gardiner.
Even so, Just because that is what Nonis wants doesn't mean that is what we have to give up. Toronto is really the only team that needs Luongo as bad as we need to get rid of him. They're the only team we could strong arm in to a deal. If he insists on trading farm teams, then the answer is no.

Is anyone else praying to the good god above that we don't trade with Toronto?

Kadri and Bozak?! Isn't Bozak a free agent at the end of the year? So that's Kadri--a player who can't even perform consistently for the tragically awful Leafs, and, essentially, a rent-a-player who, if he performs well at all, is due for a raise.

No thanks.

I don't think Luongo will get much in return, especially compared to the optimistic offers you see tossed around here. But I hope the inevitable disappointment comes from a team outside of Ontario.

Don't talk about god. Heretic will show up and hijack the thread.

Would love to get him, but that's a big cap hit ($6.5M). There'd need to be more players involved.

I'd say that Briere's probably a more realistic target from Philly than either of the 3 that oldnews mentioned, though.

Yeah, who else could complete that deal?

They need defense, so Lu and Ballard for Briere and who?
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#1752 Kulikov

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:38 AM

I don't want Weiss, Bozak, or Kadri. Preparing myself to be disappointed..
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#1753 eretz canucks

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:42 AM

here are some 'young players' Toronto can take back with Luongo

sauve
polasek
andersson
friesen
tochkin
honzik- they would love him

etc... we have plenty of young players to offer Toronto
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#1754 King of the ES

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:46 AM

Yeah, who else could complete that deal?

They need defense, so Lu and Ballard for Briere and who?


They re-acquired Brian Boucher this morning, which is interesting. Something else is obviously coming from them. I still have a very hard time believing that they're in the Luongo sweepstakes, but this could be setting up for some sort of 3-way, with us ending up with Michael Leighton as our backup.

Edited by King of the ES, 13 January 2013 - 09:47 AM.

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#1755 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:01 AM

If Philly is in that is where he will go because Snyder will certainly buy Lu out after the 2nd year.
To those who do not think Lu's contract is not an issue, Kirk Mclean has not played in the NHL for 12 years, and he is 46 years ols, so his contract would have just expired 3 years ago if he signed a 12 year deal at the same age as Lu did.
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#1756 surtur

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

Of course, all of the above.

You're showing an inability to look at anything besides current production when gauging a player's value. On this basis, then, do you think Chris Higgins is worth more than Nick Jensen?

pretty sure you did the exact same thing in your "multiple warning signs of Kassian" thread
saying he is a bust and everyone should worry because his year over year (being one season) his points are down.

just say'n
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#1757 John Garret's moustache

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:18 AM

Would love to get him, but that's a big cap hit ($6.5M). There'd need to be more players involved.

I'd say that Briere's probably a more realistic target from Philly than either of the 3 that oldnews mentioned, though.

And he's an absolute monster in the playoffs!
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#1758 King of the ES

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:31 AM

pretty sure you did the exact same thing in your "multiple warning signs of Kassian" thread
saying he is a bust and everyone should worry because his year over year (being one season) his points are down.

just say'n


Wrong. Never said he was a bust. Very legitimate to be concerned with year-over-year declines in minor league production from any prospect.
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#1759 thad

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:33 AM

here are some 'young players' Toronto can take back with Luongo

sauve
polasek
andersson
friesen
tochkin
honzik- they would love him

etc... we have plenty of young players to offer Toronto


If they want tochkin they better start with Reilly and a first. And Friesen is pretty much untouchable.
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#1760 riffraff

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:47 AM

I don't want Weiss, Bozak, or Kadri. Preparing myself to be disappointed..


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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#1761 eretz canucks

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

If they want tochkin they better start with Reilly and a first. And Friesen is pretty much untouchable.



that's whatim talkin about
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#1762 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:00 AM

everybodies stats in the west was dramitically down......moastly due to a very very competitive west....

henrik was still the top west pt getter and thats without Daniel for ten games ....and a strugglling injury plagued 2nd line.... so I wouldnt read alot into that...example first 48 gms henrik 11-31=52pts daniel 20-30=50pts


I agree with your point, not trying to be a douche but your math is off on Henrik 11 + 31 = 42 not 52
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#1763 oldnews

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:30 AM

At this point I'd that and try to squeeze a 2nd out of them. I don't see us getting a more talented prospect out of anyone else. Seems to be developing slower but we don't have anyone with high end skill in our prospect pool. I think it's worth the gamble considering we also fill our interim 2nd line center role with bozak if niether of the kids take charge at camp. Who knows maybe Kadri finds his game this year.

I see it being a better option than Weiss. He may be a better option at 2nd C but he most likely walks next year and bozak can certainly patch the hole untill kes is back.

At least going the Toronto route we get a shot at a high end talented young prospect. May not be a sure bet but the reward could be huge and long lasting.

Toronto is feeling the pinch and I think they know they have to give significantly more than Florida or gillis sends him home out of respect. I think he's the best player that is easiest to let go for them. They gotta give something and that's pretty close to what gillis asked for, good prospect, roster player, 1st round pick. TO cant afford to give a 1st especially after giving away a 7th overall 22 yr old. So they counter with a 2nd.

Kadri bozak 2nd

I think it seems totally reasonable from both sides. They get their playoff bound goalie without putting too many holes in their lineup. We wash our hands clean of this mess, get a talented kid to work with and solve our center dilemma. I would be all over that if I was Nonis and Gillis.


I don't see that happening for a number of reasons.

First, the Laffs if they move those two players, they are left with Grabovski, Connolly, Lombardi, Steckel and youngsters.
Grabo and Steckel are quality 1st and 4th liners, but their 2nd and 3rd lines will be horrendous centered by Connolly and Lombardi. Why the Leafs would want to move two centers makes no sense to me.

From the Canucks side, that is simply not sufficient value - at all. I don't want Kadri - don't like his game, don't like his 1.7 million ELC and pending RFA status, wouldn't give you Schroeder one for one for him, don't see him as an option to move to wing - at all. Bozak - potential rental - and to re-sign him will cost significantly more than the 1.5 he is at. Two centers - one of whom is doubtful whether he'll ever translate into a viable NHL roster player - the other a UFA, and a 2nd - just can't see Gillis moving on that.
Not enough value, no positional balance to the deal, and the 2nd isn't enough to supplement it.
If it's me and I have to settle for Leafs and no real A pieces, I'd want Frattin or Biggs (RW), Bozak ©, Franson (right side D depth), and a conditional pick.
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#1764 crazyforhockey

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:36 AM

I agree with your point, not trying to be a douche but your math is off on Henrik 11 + 31 = 42 not 52


thks.... 11-41=52 pts
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#1765 oldnews

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:41 AM

Of course, all of the above.

You're showing an inability to look at anything besides current production when gauging a player's value. On this basis, then, do you think Chris Higgins is worth more than Nick Jensen?


That's quite creative King. Great analogy. So Weiss = Higgins. We should just offer Florida a couple mid level picks for him lol.
These 60 point top line players like Weiss and Briere simply don't have much value in today's NHL...
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#1766 oldnews

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:46 AM

pretty sure you did the exact same thing in your "multiple warning signs of Kassian" thread
saying he is a bust and everyone should worry because his year over year (being one season) his points are down.

just say'n


Except he's talking about Stephen Weiss, a guy whose scored 238 points over the past four seasons - Florida's leading scorer since 2008/9. King thinks he has less value than a Reilly, Gardiner, Simmonds, Couturier, Coburn, Bjugstad....
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#1767 oldnews

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:48 AM

Toronto would want to do that because they get to unload a couple of underachieving spare parts to Vancouver for a world class goaltender. Vancouver fans would do that because they've swallowed the wave of garbage that originated from the Toronto media - that they're going to take Luongo, but only as a favour to Vancouver.


bullseye.
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#1768 thad

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

Except he's talking about Stephen Weiss, a guy whose scored 238 points over the past four seasons - Florida's leading scorer since 2008/9. King thinks he has less value than a Reilly, Gardiner, Simmonds, Couturier, Coburn, Bjugstad....


I would have to agree about Reilly and Couturier. No GM in their right mind would go one for one for Weiss with either of those 2. I probably wouldn't with bjugstad either.
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#1769 sampy

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

Kadri, Bozak <<< Luke Schenn

Missed opportunity? Now knowing the Canucks would not have been penalized if they had traded prior to the lockout and that JVR could have been had.

Hopefully the Canucks are working on a bigger 3 team trade if Nonis isn't going to trade Rielly or Gardiner. Benn? E.Kane? Couturier? Perry?

Though Weiss would be nice, he would be a rental situation.

The Canucks have one of the worst prospects pool in the league. Desperately need to stock up.

Edited by sampy, 13 January 2013 - 12:09 PM.

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#1770 oldnews

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:10 PM

I would have to agree about Reilly and Couturier. No GM in their right mind would go one for one for Weiss with either of those 2. I probably wouldn't with bjugstad either.


I'm anything but sold on Reilly - or Gardiner.
I'd take Couturier over any of them, including Weiss - but I don't see NHL trade values that way.
So many deals to reference - Kessel, Carter, Kaberle, Richards, Nash, Staal... proven veterans, 60 point players - simply aren't worth less than prospects and rookies...
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