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MG should be on thin ice...


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#121 Dazzle

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

The opposite proves it? I see ..... nothing.
GM's have their media plants to spin their stories.They run the show.
You can move on.
Move on.
Hodgson will always have been a Canuck and the circumstances surrounding his being traded will always be debated.


His dad was very controlling and it persists even to this day in Buffalo. Look for his father to be overzealous and ruin his own son's career.
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#122 nuck nit

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:38 PM

.....so at the time the risk/reward on trading waiver eligible Grabner+ for Ballard was a lot different than it would have been had they had Hamhuis.

Grabner and a first,so two firsts for Ballard.
I actually think Ballard is undervalued and has not played enough following injuries to prove himself properly.
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#123 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:39 PM

Hodgson will always have been a Canuck


God.....are you serious with this crap? He would have probably bolted the first chance he got as a free agent.....or maybe he would have badgered management so much that they would have traded him......oh, wait a minute......
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#124 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:44 PM

Grabner and a first,so two firsts for Ballard.
I actually think Ballard is undervalued and has not played enough following injuries to prove himself properly.


Where Grabner was drafted is irrelevent........his circumstances and those of the Canucks at the time he was traded are all that matter.

1. He was waiver eligible.
2. He was notorious for showing up out of shape at camp.
3. The entire top 6 had career offensive years the year before.
4. The defence on the team needed a physical puck moving dman for the top 4.

The Canucks were trying to win right now at the time of the trade. The defence needed a guy like Ballard. As soon as Hamhuis signed, Ballard was basically relegated to the background so did not get the opportunity he would have got if Hamhuis had not been here.

That doesn't change the logic behind the trade.
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#125 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:44 PM

Double Post

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 17 January 2013 - 10:45 PM.

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#126 nuck nit

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:46 PM

He. didn't. want. to. be. here.
It is really that simple, I just don't understand how people can't accept that.


I know it is simple ,Smashian.
Can you give us the quote where Cody says he does not want to be a Canuck?
Many thanks.
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#127 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:51 PM

I know it is simple ,Smashian.
Can you give us the quote where Cody says he does not want to be a Canuck?
Many thanks.


I already told you, he doesn't comment, doesn't say he did request a trade, and doesn't say that he didn't.

Why don't you show me a quote that says he didn't want out? I have already presented the circumstances that show clearly he wanted out, but since you refuse to believe it, why don't you show me a quote that says he didn't want out and wanted to stay here his entire career?
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#128 Tragoedia

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

Every GM inherits the previous GMs players. It's actually a sign of a good GM when they don't get rid of players that are there for the sole purpose of "leaving their mark". I give credit to any GM who retains the core players over the course of 5 years. If Gillis won the cup in his first year here, with all of the Nonis/Burke era players, then credit goes to Burke and Nonis as well as Gillis. But instead the team has CONSISTENTLY been good. That is not an accident. Teams don't accidentally become good and stay good. If it's a fluke, then within a season or two they are thrown back to the basement. That has not happened to the Canucks.
Another annoying thing people post is that all our core was drafted by previous GMs, and that MGs draft picks have not panned out. Well duh. How many of those Burke/ Nonis draft picks panned out during those GMs time? The Sedins? The fact is that it takes time to develop players. We had a player who was raised and groomed right in Cody Hodgson, who we traded for another prospect in Zack Kassian. Within the next couple years we will see if players like Corrado, Lack, Schroeder, Jensen and co. will pan out. But it is too soon to say that our draft has been absolute failures. If you would have said that in 2005, you would have just as much of an argument. Kesler, Edler, Schneider, even the Sedins to a certain extant, had not panned out yet.
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#129 nuck nit

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:57 PM

Every post you put up with nonsense I will remind you Kassian,that Hodgson never,not once,is quoted to ask for a trade.
Agent: Never demanded ice time nor a trade:
Posted Image

Edited by nuck nit, 17 January 2013 - 10:59 PM.

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#130 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

Every post you put up with nonsense I will remind you Kassian,that Hodgson never,not once,is quoted to ask for a trade.
Agent: Never demanded ice time nor a trade:
Posted Image


How come when I click on the link it takes me to the twitter homepage, not to the tweets or this guys page.

Then how come when I searched it in the search bar under people nothing came up?

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 17 January 2013 - 11:01 PM.

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#131 CB007

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:02 PM

On the whole Gillis has done more good for us than bad.

What is not often credited is he and AV changed our team from a Trap team to a Run-and-Gun with good defense team, THAT was the reason we won the Prez trophy twice and almost won the Cup.

The worst mistakes were the two trades involving Bernier. Getting him for a 2nd and a 3rd, then trading him, Grabner and pick away for Ballard and pick. While Ballard still has an upside, I still have to say that Bernier might've been more useful to us in the SCF then Ballard was.

I still think Booth was a good trade. Booth is a knight that we didn't have before, in World of Warcraft analogy. Samuelsson is an underrated man-at-arms, but he will retire soon.

While Burke's Leafs legacy was defined by the Kessel trade, Gillis' will be defined by the Kassian trade, more so than the soon to happen Luongo trade, I would bet.

Edited by CB007, 17 January 2013 - 11:04 PM.

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#132 allkill326

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:06 PM

On the whole Gillis has done more good for us than bad.

What is not often credited is he and AV changed our team from a Trap team to a Run-and-Gun with good defense team, THAT was the reason we won the Prez trophy twice and almost won the Cup.

The worst mistakes were the two trades involving Bernier. Getting him for a 2nd and a 3rd, then trading him, Grabner and pick away for Ballard and pick. While Ballard still has an upside, I still have to say that Bernier might've been more useful to us in the SCF then Ballard was.

I still think Booth was a good trade. Booth is a knight that we didn't have before, in World of Warcraft analogy. Samuelsson is an underrated man-at-arms, but he will retire soon.

While Burke's Leafs legacy was defined by the Kessel trade, Gillis' will be defined by the Kassian trade, more so than the soon to happen Luongo trade, I would bet.


What about signing of Luongo to a lengthy contract? Was that not one of Gillis' (mis)deeds?
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#133 CB007

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:13 PM

What about signing of Luongo to a lengthy contract? Was that not one of Gillis' (mis)deeds?


Not really. Lu's cap hit is a bargain at 5.333M. Lu would be equally hard to move if his contract length is 7 years at a higher cap hit instead of 12 at 5.333M.
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#134 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

MG could be accused of not doing a great job last season. Perhaps doing a great job by re-tooling on the fly without telling anyone? Too many un balanced moves; but the net result was still more assets.

But Gillis was not much short of stellar his first few seasons. And I'm very pleased with this off season (Garrison, Schneider, depth D and toughness). And when Kess is back we'll be competitive as we are. If he can cash Ballard, perhaps a LW for a couple of pieces we could easily be strong favorites?

Gillis ain't perfect, but he's far from on thin ice!

Too many newer fans on here that forget what its like to have horrible GMs.

Be thankful that we have Gillis. He's a great GM.

All Gms make mistakes. You don't fire them becuase they make one or two questionable trades. He's done enough other great things for this team that vastly outweigh those deals. His job is about as safe as they come.


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#135 allkill326

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:17 PM

Not really. Lu's cap hit is a bargain at 5.333M. Lu would be equally hard to move if his contract length is 7 years at a higher cap hit instead of 12 at 5.333M.


Why did MG not sign him, as he would sign Schneider for 3 years?
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#136 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

Corrections in red.

Find me another GM who signed to back to back Art Ross nominee's and scoring champs in the same UFA class?

Though I think he's doing an ok job, the table was pretty well set for him before he got here, and he hasn't done a whole lot to improve on that.

Burke/Nonis These 5 players, debatably (not very) 5 of our 7 best signed as unrestricted free agents!
Sedins
Burrows
Luongo
Bieksa




MG
Hamhuis
Ballard
Malhotra
Higgins
Booth
Barker
Vandermeer
Kassian
Schroeder
Ebbett
Lapierre
Volpatti
Weise
Alberts
Garrison

It can easily be argued that this is still, primarily, Nonis and Burke's team and that Gilli's only major contribution that have worked out have been Hamhuis, Lapierre, Higgins and, to some degree, Malhotra


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#137 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:38 PM

I know it is simple ,Smashian.
Can you give us the quote where Cody says he does not want to be a Canuck?
Many thanks.


When I asked you and King a while back to provide me with a quote of Luongo asking for a trade do you remember what you guys said to me?

(more of a statement than a question really)


Little more Ritch Winter

http://storify.com/t...-hodgson-traded

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 17 January 2013 - 11:44 PM.

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#138 nitwitt

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

I don't think it is a situation where he was a "bad" pick but rather that he isn't as good a player as some Hodgson fans like to make him out to be.

I have/had no gripes against the kid, I just don't see him as being the second coming of Wayne Crosby or Sidney Gretzky.


regards,
G.


Wow, you really don't get what MG gave up on...COHO will be a top 20 player in the NHL pointwise for the next 10 years for a player who will be given far more opportunity then COHO was ever given and has way less talent.
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#139 canacks1970

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:46 PM

MG got lucky. He reaped the benefits of what The previous GMs built. When it's his time to shine, he messed it up with the Luongo deal.

Luongo could have gotten us a crapload of good prospects or picks or players but that contract is too much for other GMs to stay away.


Oh you mean Nonis that taken over for Burke. Who then missed the playoffs two of the three years he was at the helm with Burkie's team. Do you remember Nonis trading draft picks for over the hill guys like Weinrich and Carey,Getting Mika Noronen (who by the way played 4 games) and Sean Brown All rental players that never return the following year and for what to miss the playoffs? And then the next year he gives up second round picks for more rental players in Smolinski and Sopel.
Or how about some dandy signings like Green,Isbister,Bulis,Chounard,Fitzpatrick,Cowen,Ritchie. And Tommii Santala was supposed to the best 4th line centre,And signing Sabourin to back up Loungo.
You can say whatever you want about the Loungo deal but we don't know whats going on behind closed doors we could say the same thing about Nonis screwing up by not trading Schnieder at the trading deadline.
Tell me a Gm that came in and competely gutted the whole line up and started new? You will always have a core group from the previous Gm just like Burke taking over for Keenan and Quinn. Nonis taking over for Burkie. Burkie got Lucky with the Ducks. Its about getting the right players to come in and gel with the core in which Nonis failed to do. Every Gm makes mistakes.
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#140 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:49 PM

Why did MG not sign him, as he would sign Schneider for 3 years?


It's different, Schneider's deal is a bridge contract, Luongo's deal was to lockup the best goalie in the world and our franchise player at the time, I think it was still too long but it allowed us to bring the cap hit down further which was really important.
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#141 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

Wow, you really don't get what MG gave up on...COHO will be a top 20 player in the NHL pointwise for the next 10 years for a player who will be given far more opportunity then COHO was ever given and has way less talent.


I don't know about that, he is good but not that good, I don't think he has the mobility to be a top tier player or the size to make up for it, he is most effective in controlled situations, he doesn't break games open.

Also not sure how Kassian has way less talent, unless you only consider talent offensive skill, he has just as much talent expect different areas, much bigger, much faster, much better at controlling & protecting the puck, much more gritty, much more tough, a good fighter, he has good hands, and a good shot, brings a complete package of things we are lacking.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 18 January 2013 - 12:19 AM.

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#142 oldnews

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

How come when I click on the link it takes me to the twitter homepage, not to the tweets or this guys page.

Then how come when I searched it in the search bar under people nothing came up?



Hey Smashian:

Winter's ridiculous, pedantic 6400 word response to Pass It to Bulis also redirects to a spam page lol.

What was once 'the agents of change' now redirects to a travel marketing site...

http://www.theagents...onds-press.html


Anyway, here are a few notable parts (Stamkos comparisons etc aside lol):

First, the notorious Gallagher quote that lead PITB to assume there was fire behind all the smoke:

"I think the Canucks are really playing with fire. In fact, I know they’re playing with fire with this business of what they’re doing to Hodgson. They may not have to accede to demands to be traded, if in fact they come, but you don’t want to be messing around.
Once a player starts doing that, starts asking, if you’ve gotta say no, then you’re starting to really sour the relationship and I don’t think they want to go there. They are perilously close to that kind of situation. I mean, if I had been Cody’s agent I would have been asking long ago. They have been way more than patient."


Winters' launched an incredibly long and odd attack on PITB, but remarkably, never took issue with a single word Gallagher said.

In fact, look how he stick-handles around the issue

"In fact, every time Tony and I speak I am surprised at how much angst Cody’s ice-time is causing him. In fact, my reaction to his concerns was all Tony was talking about. Nothing more. Nothing less. But, Wagner never called Tony or me to check on that and went on to make a mountain out of a bag of pucks.,,,Of course, unlike Wagner, I actually know who had issues with Cody’s ice-time and why. But, will not say."

The math doesn't appear as complicated as some people may wish to believe.

Edited by oldnews, 17 January 2013 - 11:59 PM.

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#143 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:57 PM

Hey Smashian:

Winter's ridiculous, pedantic 6400 word response to Pass It to Bulis also redirects to a spam page lol.

Here are a few of the juicier bits (Stamkos comparisons etc aside):

First, the notorious Gallagher quote that lead PITB to assume there was fire behind all the smoke:

"I think the Canucks are really playing with fire. In fact, I know they’re playing with fire with this business of what they’re doing to Hodgson. They may not have to accede to demands to be traded, if in fact they come, but you don’t want to be messing around.
Once a player starts doing that, starts asking, if you’ve gotta say no, then you’re starting to really sour the relationship and I don’t think they want to go there. They are perilously close to that kind of situation. I mean, if I had been Cody’s agent I would have been asking long ago. They have been way more than patient."


Winters' launched an incredibly long and odd attack on PITB, but remarkably, never took issue with a single word Gallagher said.

In fact, look how he stick-handles around the issue

"In fact, every time Tony and I speak I am surprised at how much angst Cody’s ice-time is causing him. In fact, my reaction to his concerns was all Tony was talking about. Nothing more. Nothing less. But, Wagner never called Tony or me to check on that and went on to make a mountain out of a bag of pucks.,,,Of course, unlike Wagner, I actually know who had issues with Cody’s ice-time and why. But, will not say."

The math doesn't appear as complicated as some people may wish to believe.


Math? This is a bit of basic english, basic socials, and basic science all mixed into one.

Your post illustrates perfectly that their were issues, it's crystal clear their were issues just by looking at the way Cody "Stick handles" (as you put it, I like that analogy BTW) around the questions about requesting a trade.

Unfortunately people like Nuck refuse to read between the lines like you, Baggins and I can.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 17 January 2013 - 11:58 PM.

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#144 DeNiro

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:00 AM

Wow, you really don't get what MG gave up on...COHO will be a top 20 player in the NHL pointwise for the next 10 years for a player who will be given far more opportunity then COHO was ever given and has way less talent.


A top 20 player in the league for the next 10 years? Please, just stop. You're clearly delusional.

So he's going to be at the level of these players then? Somehow I doubt that.

(top 20 players from two seasons ago with Crosby and Malkin added to the top)

Malkin
Crosby
Sedin
St.Louis
Perry
Sedin
Stamkos
Iginla
Ovechkin
Selanne
Zetterberg
Richards
Staal
Toews
Giroux
Getzlaf
Kesler
Marleau
Vanek
Eriksson

Edited by DeNiro, 18 January 2013 - 12:03 AM.

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#145 oldnews

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:10 AM

Wow, you really don't get what MG gave up on...COHO will be a top 20 player in the NHL pointwise for the next 10 years for a player who will be given far more opportunity then COHO was ever given and has way less talent.


Thanks for the prophecy Nostradamus.
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#146 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:18 AM

I wish Hodgson would just finally admit he wanted out of Vancouver so people would just let it go. He is GONE......GET OVER IT.....
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#147 oldnews

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:20 AM

Math? This is a bit of basic english, basic socials, and basic science all mixed into one.

Your post illustrates perfectly that their were issues, it's crystal clear their were issues just by looking at the way Cody "Stick handles" (as you put it, I like that analogy BTW) around the questions about requesting a trade.

Unfortunately people like Nuck refuse to read between the lines like you, Baggins and I can.


I don't think we even have to read between the lines - it may be lawyer talk, but what Winters clearly says is that Gallagher was talking about Winters' reaction to Gallagher's concerns. It's a shell game - but there's clearly a nut underneath.
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#148 oldnews

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:22 AM

Folks waiting for MG to lose his job may as well go outside and watch grass grow.
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#149 Baggins

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:05 AM

There was nothing wrong with drafting Patrick White in the first round - he was ranked around that position but he didn't pan out, which is a common phenomenon with draft players.

The kid had a terrific attitude when he came to camp but nobody knows why he was traded so quickly as he did to SJ. Also Gillis picked up MA Gragnani and let him go from UFA. Nobody knows why these players didn't succeed. It's one of the questions that I'd want to ask Gillis if I could.


White was ranked 23rd among North American Players. Overall, International scouting had him ranked 34th, TSN at 46th, and The Hockey News at 60th. He was a surprise 1st round pick as he was expected to go in the 2nd round.


In the Hodgson/Kassian deal we appeared to be getting the better end between Sulzer and Gragnani. Sulzer being a pending UFA and the younger Gragnani a pending RFA. For whatever reason Gragnani simply didn't click here. Gillis made sure he played enough games to remain an RFA but by the end of June things had changed that made Gragnani more expendable.

That fall Gragnani would be waiver eligible. Meaning he had to make the active roster or clear waivers to be sent to the farm team. We already had 6 d-men under contract for the 12/13 season: Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Ballard, Tanev, and Alberts. This only left two roster spots available. MG was still trying to re-sign Salo, Schultz has us on his short list at the time, and it had become apparent Garrison would be available to pursue July 1st. All three being better options than Gragnani. With 3 better options the waiver eligible Gragnani became expendable after a less than inspiring showing down the stretch of the 11/12 season.
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#150 Moonshinefe

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:30 AM

White was ranked 23rd among North American Players. Overall, International scouting had him ranked 34th, TSN at 46th, and The Hockey News at 60th. He was a surprise 1st round pick as he was expected to go in the 2nd round.


In the Hodgson/Kassian deal we appeared to be getting the better end between Sulzer and Gragnani. Sulzer being a pending UFA and the younger Gragnani a pending RFA. For whatever reason Gragnani simply didn't click here. Gillis made sure he played enough games to remain an RFA but by the end of June things had changed that made Gragnani more expendable.

That fall Gragnani would be waiver eligible. Meaning he had to make the active roster or clear waivers to be sent to the farm team. We already had 6 d-men under contract for the 12/13 season: Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Ballard, Tanev, and Alberts. This only left two roster spots available. MG was still trying to re-sign Salo, Schultz has us on his short list at the time, and it had become apparent Garrison would be available to pursue July 1st. All three being better options than Gragnani. With 3 better options the waiver eligible Gragnani became expendable after a less than inspiring showing down the stretch of the 11/12 season.


I'm glad we got rid of Gragnani. He was out of position all the time, the excuse being "he's an offensive puck moving D-man", except he sucked at both offence and puck moving too.
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