Master Mind Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The fact that you refer to anyone who would prefer Schneider over Luongo as "Lu haters" shows that your a GIANT fan boy who knows nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Brodeur won as a rookie... a freaking rookie. I can't tell you how much I disagree with you and at the same time respect your opinion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 - Cam Ward won as a rookie as well. Had only played 28 regular season games. - J.S. Giguere wasn't a rookie, but took his team all the way to the finals in his first playoff action. - Mike Smith only had a couple of games experience in the playoffs before last season...looked OK to me. - Although the Caps could only get to round 2, Holtby was fantastic in the playoffs after only 21 regular seasson games. - Halak didn't need long to be effective in the playoffs either. This whole age/experience thing is highly overrated. And speaking of overrated, since his fantastic first playoff run with us (incidentally, the first playoff run of his career), Luongo has had a playoff GAA of 2.76 and save% of .908. That's not good at all, especially for a highly paid "franchise" goaltender. But some sentimental people continually want to ignore the facts, and defend the guy to the end. Face it: Schneider is the better option, and it's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 BTW, Luongo is 2.53 playoff career GAA according to nhl.com: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 So you think by comparing Lu to other goalies that had a lot more help from their team to win games, then that makes Lu worse than Schneider? ...Ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectic Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 From reading many of the replies, I've noticed that some agree that the Canucks problems aren't in goal when referring to how many goals we scored in the LA series and the Boston series. Another question is this: Who do you think we'd get more in return for, Luongo or Schneider? I'm thinking Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I clearly stated that those stats were since his first playoff run in 2005-06. Admittedly, he was phenomenal that year. Since then, not so much. As for Canucks' goals scored, is the return on a Schneider or Lu package going to single-handedly solve our secondary scoring, to the point where having a goalie who posts below-average playoff stats is not an issue? Probably not. But if you keep the goalie that performs better, the offense doesn't need as much help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenBae Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I look forward to Eddie Lack battling for #1 goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 From reading many of the replies, I've noticed that some agree that the Canucks problems aren't in goal when referring to how many goals we scored in the LA series and the Boston series. Another question is this: Who do you think we'd get more in return for, Luongo or Schneider? I'm thinking Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Luongo didn't have more help from his team in the 2005-06 season. He was simply lights out. But he's not that good of a goalie anymore, as his stats clearly indicate. The irony of the pro-Luongo argument is, the key players on this team have not changed much. If the forwards and defense are really the problem, then we're screwed - we will not win with this current group, regardless of who is in net. If that is the case, the team will need to undergo some major re-structuring, which will take a few years. At that point, Luongo will be well past his prime, whereas Schneider will likely still be an effective starting goalie, with many years left in him, which we will need to contend again. So either way, the obvious choice is to trade Luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You're not getting my angle. Grant Fuhr was 5.05 GAA 1 year, does that mean he was a bad goalie? He went on to win some cups with that Oiler squad... Luongo's worst was last year - but he only played 2 games (3.59 GAA), remember Kirk McClean? his worst playoffs (88/89) were 3.57 GAA Oh...and the Great Martin Brodeur, he had 3.19 GAA in 07/08 and 3.19 in 09/10. I guess they should have went with someone else those years...or traded him after 07/08 for a "better" goalie. No...I'm not comparing Luongo to Brodeur...I'm just saying that this is a team game. If your team can't even score 2 goals a game you're not going to go very far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 We were able to go to the finals not that long ago, so it can't be the core of the team (unless some players never come back the same) What we need is more offence. So that scenario doesn't really play out. We've really struggled in that area since the SJ series. MG's best move would be to trade Cory for a top 6 forward. The core of the team still has a solid 4-6 years before age may take its toll, so I'm not worried about that. Use all the stats and comparisons you want, but they won't make a difference. Yes the obvious choice is to trade Luongo, but it's also the wrong one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 How do you confidently state that Vancouver lost simply because Luongo wasn't getting enough help, and then right after say the team structure is fine because it went to the finals? Maybe...just maybe...we don't just lose because of the skaters, but sometimes win because of them too? IMO, we have a solid team. Every team gives up the odd gaffe, and it's the franchise goaltender's job to bail the team out when they do. Luongo hasn't done that consistently in the playoffs since 2006-07. Insanity would be simply trying it over and over again. Ignorance would be figuring Luongo will get BETTER in his late 30's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 We're not talking about 1 year here - or 2, or 3... Luongo has posted average-to-below-average stats in four straight playoffs. What makes it even worse is that he stands on his head one series (St. Louis, Nashville, San Jose), only to melt down the next (Chicago x 2, Boston). At least if he were consistently average, a deep enough team would be able to have a shot at every series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Luongo can stand on his head every game, but he won't win a playoff series if the team isn't scoring. And they haven't been in the last 2 series. The team doesn't need restructuring, it is just missing a piece or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You said "Luongo has had a playoff GAA of 2.76 and save% of .908. That's not good at all," since that first year in Vancouver. Then you say "Luongo has posted average-to-below-average stats in four straight playoffs." The last 5 years his GAA: 1.77 2.52 3.22 2.56 3.57 Average: 2.73 So he has 3 years that are better than his average and 2 that are worse. As far as consistency - I agree - it's something he lacks, something Schneider has lacked (as a starter so far this year) but most important, the Canucks have lacked scoring consistency when it counts. As I said in my previous post, 8 goals in 5 games, and 8 goals in 7 games does not make good odds to win a playoff round. No goalie could have helped the Canucks win those series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You said "Luongo has had a playoff GAA of 2.76 and save% of .908. That's not good at all," since that first year in Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Management does not have confidence that Luongo can win it all. As evidenced by the fact that Lou did not get the start in Game 6 vs Chicago 2011. He has developed a habit of getting vented on the road in the playoffs. I am sure they wanted to give Schneider a start in the Boston series when the wheels were falling off but couldn't pull the trigger. Up 2-0 going to Boston. No problems. Luongo had been solid. Game three. Luongo gets vented. Crap happens, he's still our guy, still up 2-1. Game 4, team can't score, Luongo can't stop pucks. .......... Do we make a change? Well Luongo's been solid at home. Start Luongo. Game 5, Luongo is brilliant in a 1-0 win. So how do you not start him in game 6? Game 6, more of the same on the road. Team can't score, Luongo can't stop pucks. Well Luongo's been solid at home. Start Luongo. Game 7, Everyone goes home unhappy. That is unless you're on a flight to Boston. To be fair, Luongo was the main reason the Canucks won more than 1 game in the series. The team simply could not score. However, it's clear to me anyways that management doesn't have much confidence in him being the guy. Further evidenced by Schneider starting the last 3 against LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 BTW, not sure what you are saying there, those stats are legitimate, and accurate. They are based on the 1441 shots he has faced, the 1309 saves he made, the 132 goals he let in, in the 2,869 minutes he played (which works out to 47.82 games played). I'm talking about how his stats compared to the average starting goaltender in each year of the playoffs, not "better than his average". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginu Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think both goalies are being showcased and with the right deal any of them can be traded to maximize some of the missing gaps which Canucks is dealing with. Everyone knows Lu's potential, but Schneider is not fully proven in order to maximize his trade value... Imagine a team which is in dire need of a goalie (there are a few teams in desperate needs of goalies) and MG can offer Lu or Schneider... With that being said, we have had some big contracts sitting in the press box for over a season, so I don't see what the big thing is to keep both goalies until the right deals are presented... Think of Lu being a wildcard and Schneider morphing into one (if not one already)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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