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With Luongo, i thought it was not about the regular season


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#91 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:21 PM

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You can look at it any way you want but the way I look at it is if the goalie is not making the saves your chance of winning is low. Although a small sample size Cory's % is great in the losses and he did give them a chance to win. Goaltending is the most important position in hockey and teams live or die with there goalie, Lou has not cut it in series we were eliminated in.


I absolutely understand what you're saying and agree with your method to come up with your opinion however I'm saying you're not taking it far enough.

Henrik Sedin
2011-12 2 goals (last 5 games)
2010-12 1 goal (last 6 games)
2009-10 2 goals (last 6 games)
2008-09 3 goals (last 6 games)

Danial Sedin

2011-12 0 goals (last 2 games) I wouldn't actually count this because he's coming back from an injury.
2010-12 1 goal (last 6 games)
2009-10 1 goals (last 6 games)
2008-09 2 goals (last 6 games)

These guys are supposed to be this teams offense.

Ryan Kesler

2011-12 0 goals (last 5 games)
2010-12 0 goal (last 6 games)
2009-10 0 goals (last 6 games)
2008-09 2 goals (last 6 games)

I'm starting to see a trend here.

Alex Burrows

2011-12 1 goals (last 5 games)
2010-12 2 goal (last 6 games)
2009-10 2 goals (last 6 games)
2008-09 0 goals (last 6 games)

Why does the "assist" guy have the most goals of these four guys?

See you're not wrong you just didn't go far enough which is why (in my opinion) your off on playing the blame game and putting it all on one player. These are 4 of our top 6 forwards and they have 19 goals in 92 playoff games.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 06 February 2013 - 07:24 PM.

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#92 Papayas

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:20 PM

I absolutely understand what you're saying and agree with your method to come up with your opinion however I'm saying you're not taking it far enough.

Henrik Sedin
2011-12 2 goals (last 5 games)
2010-12 1 goal (last 6 games)
2009-10 2 goals (last 6 games)
2008-09 3 goals (last 6 games)

Danial Sedin

2011-12 0 goals (last 2 games) I wouldn't actually count this because he's coming back from an injury.
2010-12 1 goal (last 6 games)
2009-10 1 goals (last 6 games)
2008-09 2 goals (last 6 games)

These guys are supposed to be this teams offense.

Ryan Kesler

2011-12 0 goals (last 5 games)
2010-12 0 goal (last 6 games)
2009-10 0 goals (last 6 games)
2008-09 2 goals (last 6 games)

I'm starting to see a trend here.

Alex Burrows

2011-12 1 goals (last 5 games)
2010-12 2 goal (last 6 games)
2009-10 2 goals (last 6 games)
2008-09 0 goals (last 6 games)

Why does the "assist" guy have the most goals of these four guys?

See you're not wrong you just didn't go far enough which is why (in my opinion) your off on playing the blame game and putting it all on one player. These are 4 of our top 6 forwards and they have 19 goals in 92 playoff games.


let's not sink to Nino's level here and use the stats from the last 6 games of each playoff year in arguments....

He shouldn't even dissect the game this way in the first place.... the last 6 games will always be bad on almost any players on any non cup winning team because if the stats are good enough, they would have won...
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#93 Riviera82

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

He has a history of a .916 save percentage and 2.51gaa in the playoffs, this is a myth that has been debunked. He may not be the BEST playoff performer, but his numbers are still very good.


Those are average stats for the regular season, nevermind playoffs.
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#94 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

If a goalie has to face 5+ point blank scoring chances EVERY GAME.... There is no way that he will save them all every single night. What people need to understand is that there is a point where making big save after big save doesn't actually help the team anymore... Even in the 8-1 game vs Boston, it was what, 0-0, 1-0 after the first period? Luongo had already faced more quality scoring chances than we had shots, and one person can't do everything.
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Formerly known as LordofBrussels

There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#95 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

let's not sink to Nino's level here and use the stats from the last 6 games of each playoff year in arguments....

He shouldn't even dissect the game this way in the first place.... the last 6 games will always be bad on almost any players on any non cup winning team because if the stats are good enough, they would have won...


His point is that we lost because we couldn't score. You're right, if those guys actually played like they were supposed to, we would have won...
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Formerly known as LordofBrussels

There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#96 smurf47

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:01 PM

Luongo has played incredibly in parts of teh playoffs but has melted down. Yes, it is a team game, but there does come a point when he seems to come undone.

He played brilliantly against Anaheim in 2007 then lost focus on the series winner.

He got shelled against Chicago 3 straight seasons in the playoffs. yes he played great in game 7 in 2010 but why couldn't he stop the last minute goal that forced overtime? Yes, it's a team game but he still didn't close the deal in the third period. The same can be said about the Olympic gol medal final.

How many last minute goals does this guy give up? Please don't see this as attack, but answer the question.

Although Schneider has a shorter resume than Lu, I haven't seen him have the large meltdowns as had Luongo.

I think Luongo can be the better goalie of the two, but has shown to be less steady.

The only real knock against Lou is that he is either very hot or very cold which spells inconsistant. Very common for reflex type goalies.
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#97 Riviera82

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:09 PM

err what what?

i am saying Luongo was the main reason why we can get to game 7 despite being outscore 1 to 3


Which speaks volumes about his inconsistency from game to game. Why do so many people on this forum think it's acceptable for a goalie to post a shutout in one game, get blown out in another couple, and post a shutout after that? It's the same team playing in front of him every game, do the excuses for their poor play only apply when Luongo has a bad game?
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#98 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

let's not sink to Nino's level here and use the stats from the last 6 games of each playoff year in arguments....

He shouldn't even dissect the game this way in the first place.... the last 6 games will always be bad on almost any players on any non cup winning team because if the stats are good enough, they would have won...

This isn't sinking this is showing the flaw that his argument wasn't being taken far enough. If we're going to use stats to make a judgement then we have to use those stats across the board. Either these stats mean something for everybody or they mean nothing.
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#99 Riviera82

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:18 PM

you are picking the game where the canucks exit the playoff as "evidence" on how bad Luongo is. But you never look at how Luongo perform when the team wins.

This is call Cherry picking data. Somehow, you think those games the team won weren't important and are easy games, so the performance in those games are useless.

care to explain, face to face, how the hell did the team get to game 7 in the SCF series after being outscore ... let me calculate for you, 8:23

in case if you manage to overlook this again, i will make the numbers bigger for you.

8 to 23
the canucks had managed to get to game 7, and tied the series TWICE, despite being outscored THREE TIMES.

Please, tell me how did the team get to game 7 without Luongo?


Seems like your bragging about Luongo getting scored on 20 times in roughly 368 minutes. Congratulations!
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#100 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:19 PM

He is not inconsistent. He is not a playoff choke. It is called having to face too many point-blank scoring chances every game.

Why are there so many highlight-reel Luongo saves on Youtube that are from the playoffs? To reword that question, why was Luongo forced into making these incredible saves so often during the playoffs?

If the team gives up several high quality scoring chances a game, the likelihood of ANY goaltender making all or most of those stops is next to none. The sheer number of times Luongo was able to keep us in the game/series should have been more than enough reason to prove that he plays perfectly fine in the playoffs.

Other than his supposed meltdowns which are results of the team conceding millions of odd-man rushes and giveaways and Luongo being a human, what signs does he give that he suddenly gets scared come April?

He plays the same way, acts the same way, still makes epic saves, if it weren't for the crowd actually making noise in the playoffs, I would not be able to tell the difference between a playoff game and a regular season game if I were to just look at Luongo. If I was looking at the forwards, then it's very easy...


Calling Luongo inconsistent or a choke in the playoffs is just as ridiculous as calling our forwards pylons because none of them score every time they shoot. Too bad that Luongo has made more game-changing saves than all of our forwards scored game-changing goals combined.

P.S. Don't try and say Quick or Thomas was able to do so, because Vancouver couldn't create a scoring chance to save their lives. Sure, we outshot Boston in the SCF, but if 90% of those shots are all from the perimeter and into the logo, I could go in and backstop the Bruins to a similar result. Oh, and both Quick and Thomas had consistent defense and an offense that actually created chances too.

Probably isn't the best motivation to play your heart out when you know you will face 82 games' worth of scoring chances in 16 and know that the only way to win is to post a 0.00 GAA and a 1.00Sv %. And in the SCF, we don't even know how long we would have to play game 7 to win, assuming Luongo is guaranteed to post those numbers.


Edit:

Seems like your bragging about Luongo getting scored on 20 times in roughly 368 minutes. Congratulations!


Oh Riviera.

Please, answer his question. How did we get to game 7 despite having a goal difference of a reasonable -15?

Maybe it was the two 1-0 shutout wins.

Just maybe, just, maybe.... Luongo might have won us the game(s).

Edited by LordofBrussels, 06 February 2013 - 09:22 PM.

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Formerly known as LordofBrussels

There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#101 Primus099

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:25 PM

Which speaks volumes about his inconsistency from game to game. Why do so many people on this forum think it's acceptable for a goalie to post a shutout in one game, get blown out in another couple, and post a shutout after that? It's the same team playing in front of him every game, do the excuses for their poor play only apply when Luongo has a bad game?


why do so many people seem to think it's acceptable to score 8 goals in 7 games like that's a good offensive effort for a 7 game series? Exactly it was the same team playing in front of him every game, and they were terrible every game except for maybe game 3 where we scored 3 goals. Luongo was excellent for 3 out of the 7 games. The entire team including Luongo played like crap in the other 4. Yet people still try and argue Luongo was the reason we lost the series lol it's really funny at this point
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#102 Riviera82

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:04 AM

Ok guys, I'm willing to bet that we'll all agree that Luongo is twice the goaltender that say for example Dan Cloutier was, yes?
Now if we had Cloutier in our net for the last number of postseasons would we be losing games by scores of 16-1, 8-0, 14-2, 10-1, etc. etc.? If Luongo doesn't shoulder the majority of responsibility for getting lit up the way he has so many times then this Canucks team must be downright terrible, right?. Like miss the playoffs by ten miles, Columbus Bluejackets terrible. Somehow though we manage to win Presidents trophies.
I understand that we dont score in the playoffs anymore and maybe the D give up some odd man chances, but is that a good enough reason to get blown away the way we have so many times over the last few years? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I just dont accept it anymore.
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#103 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

Ok guys, I'm willing to bet that we'll all agree that Luongo is twice the goaltender that say for example Dan Cloutier was, yes?
Now if we had Cloutier in our net for the last number of postseasons would we be losing games by scores of 16-1, 8-0, 14-2, 10-1, etc. etc.? If Luongo doesn't shoulder the majority of responsibility for getting lit up the way he has so many times then this Canucks team must be downright terrible, right?. Like miss the playoffs by ten miles, Columbus Bluejackets terrible. Somehow though we manage to win Presidents trophies.
I understand that we dont score in the playoffs anymore and maybe the D give up some odd man chances, but is that a good enough reason to get blown away the way we have so many times over the last few years? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I just dont accept it anymore.

You really just don't get it huh?
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#104 cc_devil

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:20 AM

How do you go from shutout to blowout to shutout to blowout. When his D is solid he looks good and its all LU and when their not its a blowout. This team relys on the defense to much under AV for scoring as soon as they have to defend more than attack the net the teams offence dissappears. The problem seems to be this team does not know how to attack without its d-men. To me that`s a coaching. A problem that hasn`t been addressed for years.

Lu has let in how many game tying goals in the last minute. Not what I call making a save when it matters.
Exactly why sports analysts haven`t picked him for the 2014 Olympic team. The defense in front of him locked down the front of the net in overtime which was a large contributing factor to the Olympic win.
This is also why teams keep coming hard when down 1 in the third. They know they have a better than average chance of tying it. Especially under AV`s dump and change defensive system.
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#105 smurf47

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:34 AM

why do so many people seem to think it's acceptable to score 8 goals in 7 games like that's a good offensive effort for a 7 game series? Exactly it was the same team playing in front of him every game, and they were terrible every game except for maybe game 3 where we scored 3 goals. Luongo was excellent for 3 out of the 7 games. The entire team including Luongo played like crap in the other 4. Yet people still try and argue Luongo was the reason we lost the series lol it's really funny at this point

The fact that Luongo gave up a lot of goals or shutout Boston a couple of times is not the whole story people. Its the type(read soft) goals that he gives up by poor rebound control, not sealing off the net, floundering due to poor fundamentals and poor positional play that haunts his consistancy. Reflex goaltending does not hold up under continuous pressure, shooters are just too good and he is far too predictable. Shuting out a team one night, and giving up 7 the next, is a huge problem. Lou has continued to falter from game to game in the playoffs, even though scoring goals is much more difficult. Bottom line is, apposing goaltenders are outplaying Lou in the playoffs. Ask yourself why?
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#106 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:41 AM

How do you go from shutout to blowout to shutout to blowout. When his D is solid he looks good and its all LU and when their not its a blowout. This team relys on the defense to much under AV for scoring as soon as they have to defend more than attack the net the teams offence dissappears. The problem seems to be this team does not know how to attack without its d-men. To me that`s a coaching. A problem that hasn`t been addressed for years.

Lu has let in how many game tying goals in the last minute. Not what I call making a save when it matters.
Exactly why sports analysts haven`t picked him for the 2014 Olympic team. The defense in front of him locked down the front of the net in overtime which was a large contributing factor to the Olympic win.
This is also why teams keep coming hard when down 1 in the third. They know they have a better than average chance of tying it. Especially under AV`s dump and change defensive system.

Blaming any 1 thing is silly but everybody here has their bias/hate for something so they find a way to blame everything on them. Look at the Boston series. This team collapsed. There were a tonne of injuries especially to our top players. You get a team that just has the crap kicked out of them going up against a strong skilled team and eventually it's going to come out in their favor. What could AV have done to solve that problem? Call up a couple of the moose players to show the bruins who's boss? Luongo can't be the entire team. My only problem with Luongo in that series was his big stupid mouth.

Look at LA last year. Luongo lost his job because he wasn't playing great but then neither was the rest of the team. They couldn't figure out Quick who was fracking amazing. Go watch the series again and you'll start to see how desperate the team looks to score as a game goes on. D out of position trying to create scoring, guys who should be putting pucks in the net throwing garbage in Quicks direction.

There's so many reasons for these things. My biggest problem with the AV and Luongo and Schneider and Raymond whiners is that there never seems to be a turn around when they do something great to give them credit. People want to blame AV for the Boston series? Cool. What did he do to get us there then? Does he get credit for getting the team through three rounds or is it just the ol' "anyone could win with this team." Insert any players name instead of AV and the argument stays the same. The AV thing always seems more like a "I don't understand what AV did and he's not doing what I would do so he sucks" argument.
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#107 wai_lai416

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

Those are average stats for the regular season, nevermind playoffs.


his playoff stats are 2.53 sv% .916..
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#108 wai_lai416

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:34 AM

i like how majority of the haters are saying Luongo is a fundamentally poor goalie his techniques ain't great he's always floundering around.. if that's the case shouldn't any one of you be able to play goalie and have success in the NHL? last i checked Luongo is one of the most consistent goalies in the last decade if not the most consistent.. and that's with so call poor fundamental and techniques...
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#109 sedated

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

Vancouver sucked against Boston. Despite being blown out, Luongo was Vancouver's best player in the series with 3 great games. He probably should've been pulled in two games, but the coach for whatever reason decided to keep him in.

The offense and defense SUCKED that series. The entire part. They were injured and terrible. Luongo had to play lights out. He was not going to get support. Controversely, Thomas got bailed out a few times against Tampa. When he got scored on a lot, Boston responded with even more goals. Same with Rinne the series before us.

Our 'playoff offense' sucks. Really bad. We make every goalie look good, even though JUST THE SERIES BEFORE, the said 'godly' goalies got lit up frequently. We were one of the lowest scoring teams going into the finals throughout the playoffs. What does that mean? Goalie. Rome was gone, Hamhuis was gone, and Edler was injured. We had no defense after the second game, which unsurprisingly was when Boston took control. Other than game 5, where Luongo stood on his head.
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#110 Primus099

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

Those are average stats for the regular season, nevermind playoffs.


when your team is averaging over 3 goals a game all year a 2.51GAA and .916 save% should be more than enough

problem was we were averaging 1.14 goals a game in the finals
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#111 Riviera82

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:37 AM

his playoff stats are 2.53 sv% .916..


Yeah, like I said, those are average stats for the regular season therefore they are below average for playoffs.
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#112 Riviera82

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:45 AM

when your team is averaging over 3 goals a game all year a 2.51GAA and .916 save% should be more than enough

problem was we were averaging 1.14 goals a game in the finals


Right, but scoring typically goes down in the playoffs because teams tighten up their D and goalies raise their game, most of the time.
Other than Fleury in 2009 and Niemi in 2010, how many goaltenders in recent memory have won a Stanley Cup with a pedestrian GAA and Sv%? I think you'd have to go back to the mid or early 90's to find one.
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#113 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:49 AM

Yeah, like I said, those are average stats for the regular season therefore they are below average for playoffs.

Playoff Stats

Patrick Roy .918 2.30
Martin Brodeur .919 2.02
Dominic Hasek .925 2.02
Ed Belfour .920 2.17
Henrik Lundqvist .917 2.31

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 08 February 2013 - 08:49 AM.

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#114 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:01 AM

Right, but scoring typically goes down in the playoffs because teams tighten up their D and goalies raise their game, most of the time.
Other than Fleury in 2009 and Niemi in 2010, how many goaltenders in recent memory have won a Stanley Cup with a pedestrian GAA and Sv%? I think you'd have to go back to the mid or early 90's to find one.

SV% wise Osgood, Giguere, Khabibulin, Brodeur

Cam Ward .920, 2.14


So yeah in terms of SV % almost every goalie that's one the Stanley Cup has "pedestrian" stats.
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#115 smurf47

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:05 AM

You really just don't get it huh?

Perhaps YOU don;t get it ! A possibility?/
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#116 smurf47

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

i like how majority of the haters are saying Luongo is a fundamentally poor goalie his techniques ain't great he's always floundering around.. if that's the case shouldn't any one of you be able to play goalie and have success in the NHL? last i checked Luongo is one of the most consistent goalies in the last decade if not the most consistent.. and that's with so call poor fundamental and techniques...

The problem is thats hes been around awhile, is an easy read, and teams know his shortcomings. Now hes playing on a two time President's cup team , not the Leafs or Blue Jackets where he would be average at best. Lou is consistant by his save percentages and other stats, but the problem is the huge fluctuations game to game....can you say...inconsistant !!
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#117 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:13 AM

Perhaps YOU don;t get it ! A possibility?/


Certainly a possibility. In fact it's a probability that I don't, and neither do you or anybody else really.

Would you admit to the possibility that you may be wrong?

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 08 February 2013 - 09:13 AM.

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#118 beer&meat

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:16 AM

Your right, I pulled this from another user last week and didn't double check it after checking it I can see that's its wrong. I apologize for posting something I didn't double check.

I double checked the Boston series and his save % was .832 for the last six games (even lower) then the info I pulled from the other member. I will update the compleat post with information I can verify in the morrning.

I had no intention of trying to mislead anyone and i should have double checked but I'm betting the save % I calculate will not be pretty.

This is the problem with you and ALOT of others who frequent the CDC, most fo the time "your" opinions are not your own, you hear something on the street or from the media or on another board and you run with it, even if there is no fact in it at all.
You can check all the stats you want but you have proven that you are either a new fan (because any longtime fan would have known we didn't make the playoffs in 07-08) or you're just a fair weather fan (You are only a fan when things are going good).

To me you come across not as a hockey fan but more of a gossip queen, just an observation.
Maybe you should take some time and actually watch some hockey, who knows you may just like it.
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I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

I've been a Canuck fan since 2004-05 when the team was going through a huge transition phase, missed the playoffs


#119 smurf47

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:24 AM

Blaming any 1 thing is silly but everybody here has their bias/hate for something so they find a way to blame everything on them. Look at the Boston series. This team collapsed. There were a tonne of injuries especially to our top players. You get a team that just has the crap kicked out of them going up against a strong skilled team and eventually it's going to come out in their favor. What could AV have done to solve that problem? Call up a couple of the moose players to show the bruins who's boss? Luongo can't be the entire team. My only problem with Luongo in that series was his big stupid mouth.

Look at LA last year. Luongo lost his job because he wasn't playing great but then neither was the rest of the team. They couldn't figure out Quick who was fracking amazing. Go watch the series again and you'll start to see how desperate the team looks to score as a game goes on. D out of position trying to create scoring, guys who should be putting pucks in the net throwing garbage in Quicks direction.

There's so many reasons for these things. My biggest problem with the AV and Luongo and Schneider and Raymond whiners is that there never seems to be a turn around when they do something great to give them credit. People want to blame AV for the Boston series? Cool. What did he do to get us there then? Does he get credit for getting the team through three rounds or is it just the ol' "anyone could win with this team." Insert any players name instead of AV and the argument stays the same. The AV thing always seems more like a "I don't understand what AV did and he's not doing what I would do so he sucks" argument.

all true....except...Schneider came in, playing for the same underachieving team and gave up 3 goals in 3 games in regulation time....and gave the team a chance to win. Lou gave up 7 goals, 3 of which were stinkers !
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#120 beer&meat

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:24 AM

The problem is thats hes been around awhile, is an easy read, and teams know his shortcomings. Now hes playing on a two time President's cup team , not the Leafs or Blue Jackets where he would be average at best. Lou is consistant by his save percentages and other stats, but the problem is the huge fluctuations game to game....can you say...inconsistant !!


Every goalie has shortcomings, to say he is easily read is a stupid statement, if Luongo was easily read he wouldn't be an elite goaltender.
Please name me a veteran goalie that has not had a bad game, playoffs or regular season, I don't care.
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I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

I've been a Canuck fan since 2004-05 when the team was going through a huge transition phase, missed the playoffs





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