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Time to slot in Vandermeer RIGHT NOW!


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#61 boxiebrown

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

There is one video clip that completely destroys the OP's argument:



If a team with Chara, Lucic and Thornton can't stop players from taking cheap shots against their stars, no one can. So how about we don't waste roster spots on goons? Cool.
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#62 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

First of all, you're an idiot. Second of all, no it isn't. You know how sweating causes you to excrete water from what are known as "pores"? Well, water can also enter the body through those things as well. You should check out this activity known as education. It's pretty enlightening!


K, I'll check that out. Thanks.
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#63 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

You obviously failed biology 100. Do you have any concept of osmotic flow? Any understanding of hypertonic/hypontonic relationship of humidity? That is where water in the form of liquid and/or gas (i.e., water vapors) only flows from point of high water density to lower water density. Last time I checked, the humidity in any NHL arena is far less than the 100% humidity that is required for there to be any chance of water flowing from the environment into the body.

Our public school system is really failing us, isn't it? Or are you just a major league 'tard?

I still agree with your original post though, by the way.


LOL, you really want to mention osmotic flow in the same post where you're trying to argue that human skin can't absorb liquid? Have you ever applied topical treatments of any kind to your skin, or just simply kept your hand immersed in water for any length of time? Well, you can't see it because it's too small for your eyes to detect, but underlying the outer shell of your body are cells, and these cells are constantly absorbing moisture from the air and liquids surrounding your body.
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#64 bossram

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:10 PM

Is this guy serious? What an idiot...
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What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#65 WiDeN

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

There is absolutely no room for him on our defense. We have the best top 6 defense in the league, and there is no way he is cracking it.

If you think he should play as a forward, then I'm not sure your point. We did have Hordichuck, and his 5 min per game didn't deter anything. Kassian IS a deterrent, and DOES step up when he needs to. He has enough skill to not hurt the Sedins line, and enough size, toughness, and willingness to take on anyone that crosses the line. We most certainly can be without him for 5-10 minutes in a game if it is a result of him providing that protection, and we have a lot of middle weight guys that are willing to step in and fight.

I think you may have forgotten that Vandermeer is a defenseman, but never the less, I don't see your point. It sounds to me like the media has gotten to you, because if you watch the game you'll see we're not getting pushed around more than we push back.

8-2-2 says hi.
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#66 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

i think putting kassian with the sedins whenever a game gets heated is good enough


/thread
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#67 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:18 PM

Education is pretty enlightening. Sebum, a waxy material excreted by your dermis (skin) makes it waterproof. Calling people names does not help your argument


Guh, I'm tired of arguing with you and this other dude over two points about human skin that are both perfectly correct. Yes, human skin has the ability to act in what you call a "waterproof" fashion. If it didn't, we'd all be swelling like sponges. But it also A-B-S-O-R-B-S liquids at times as well. For example, when water contacts the skin, it travels away from areas with low salt concentration and toward areas with high salt concentration. Thus, if you are swimming in a fresh water lake, for example, it is likely that you will emerge slightly heavier than when you went in, even if you didn't swallow any of it -- GO FIGURE!! On the other hand, if your are extremely well hydrated and you enter a very salty pool of water, water will be drawn out of your pores and you will leave slightly lighter--even if you didn't pee in it!! So there you go.

Edited by PrimeMinisterBure, 14 February 2013 - 08:22 PM.

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#68 Aladeen

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:21 PM

right meow?
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#69 Rypien37

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:22 PM

OP is 100% right.

Sure, everyone is calling him stupid and that this is nonsense.

I won't bother arguing, I'll just bring this thread up in May when we get pushed (literally) out of the playoffs by a bigger and tougher team YET AGAIN.

Edited by Rypien37, 14 February 2013 - 08:31 PM.

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#70 Dogbyte

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:26 PM

NHLer's are all to tough, excellently conditioned, intelligent, and too well trained to be intimidated by goon tactics. That worked in the 80's when players got drunk during the day and still smoked cirgarettes. There is too much cohesion and eyes of the world on the game for cheap crap like that to work.

The game has evolved. For one, there are no Gretzky type weaklings out there anymore, and second you can't just jump players anymore and exact your own retribution. All that happens is that a suspension results.
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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

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#71 Rypien37

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:26 PM

As much as PMBure feels the need to shout and be angry to be heard, his point is well taken. Is that you, Grapes?

I'm of the thought that we need a bonafide enforcer (I like the looks of that Frazer McLaren kid in Toronto) who we can have riding shot gun and develop as we did with guys like Gino Odjick and Donald Brashear. As much as I don't like Cherry's view on many things, the one thing I agree with is his assertion that enforcers who can contribute in more ways than with their fisticuffs makes everyone on the team 2 to 3" taller and 10 to 20 pounds heavier.

Now back to the angry dude, PMBure...Vandermeer is not the answer...he may be tough as nails, but he's a punching bag and a middleweight in today's NHL.

Matt Kassian just got sent down to the minors by Minnesota, so he might be available...I'd love to see the Canucks try to get Frazer McLaren from Toronto.


Basing this off what?

Go watch some of his fights.


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#72 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:30 PM

OP is 100% right.

Sure, everyone is calling him stupid and that this is nonsense.

I won't bother arguing, I'll just bring this thread up in May when we get pushed (literally) out of the playoffs big a bigger and tougher team YET AGAIN.


Yeah, and I bet every one of them would be so quick to talk about how much they miss Rick Rypien and what he brought to this team. Yet, what he tried to bring to this team was exactly what I'm arguing we need again for the first time in years, which is physical aggression and intimidation brought against those who do the same to our star players. F'ing hypocrites, all of you.
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#73 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:34 PM

Yeah, and I bet every one of them would be so quick to talk about how much they miss Rick Rypien and what he brought to this team. Yet, what he tried to bring to this team was exactly what I'm arguing we need again for the first time in years, which is physical aggression and intimidation brought against those who do the same to our star players. F'ing hypocrites, all of you.


Quit your whining.

Ive never advocated for an enforcer. Nor was i ever a Rypien fan.

A well timed hit and line matching is all any team needs.

Different NHL, buds.
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#74 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

NHLer's are all to tough, excellently conditioned, intelligent, and too well trained to be intimidated by goon tactics. That worked in the 80's when players got drunk during the day and still smoked cirgarettes. There is too much cohesion and eyes of the world on the game for cheap crap like that to work.

The game has evolved. For one, there are no Gretzky type weaklings out there anymore, and second you can't just jump players anymore and exact your own retribution. All that happens is that a suspension results.


So why would you care if Vandermeer were to jump some player who took a run at one of the Sedins? You seem to think low enough of him as to suggest that missing him from the lineup wouldn't impact the team's play at all, and the only other result of him "jumping" that other player would be that others would think twice about doing the same thing again.
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#75 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:36 PM

Yeah, and I bet every one of them would be so quick to talk about how much they miss Rick Rypien and what he brought to this team. Yet, what he tried to bring to this team was exactly what I'm arguing we need again for the first time in years, which is physical aggression and intimidation brought against those who do the same to our star players. F'ing hypocrites, all of you.


Wait, so you're saying that the team was tough enough for the past few years, but not this year? That strikes me as false. I believe we are tougher this season than in previous ones.
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#76 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

So why would you care if Vandermeer were to jump some player who took a run at one of the Sedins? You seem to think low enough of him as to suggest that missing him from the lineup wouldn't impact the team's play at all, and the only other result of him "jumping" that other player would be that others would think twice about doing the same thing again.


Yeah. Playing shorthanded all the time would totally help the Twins.
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#77 sonoman

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

Guh, I'm tired of arguing with you and this other dude over two points about human skin that are both perfectly correct. Yes, human skin has the ability to act in what you call a "waterproof" fashion. If it didn't, we'd all be swelling like sponges. But it also A-B-S-O-R-B-S liquids at times as well. For example, when water contacts the skin, it travels away from areas with low salt concentration and toward areas with high salt concentration. Thus, if you are swimming in a fresh water lake, for example, it is likely that you will emerge slightly heavier than when you went in, even if you didn't swallow any of it -- GO FIGURE!! On the other hand, if your are extremely well hydrated and you enter a very salty pool of water, water will be drawn out of your pores and you will leave slightly lighter--even if you didn't pee in it!! So there you go.

You called the previous poster an idiot for making a statement that is essentially correct. Just can't stand condescending and confrontational attitudes to argue a point. Peace
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#78 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:46 PM

Wait, so you're saying that the team was tough enough for the past few years, but not this year? That strikes me as false. I believe we are tougher this season than in previous ones.


Read more carefully and think before you reply. I specifically said Ryp tried to bring intimidation, despite his lack of size. The guy had a tonne of heart but was just too small most times to be really effective in his role. Plus, because Gillis failed to bring in any one else of his skill set with more size, Ryp had to work extremely hard training in combat sports when he wasn't on the ice so that, when he was forced to fight because no one else on the team could do so, he could actually make an impact despite his small stature. What an organization Gillis has built, forcing such an outmatched guy to take on such a load.
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#79 Dogbyte

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

So why would you care if Vandermeer were to jump some player who took a run at one of the Sedins? You seem to think low enough of him as to suggest that missing him from the lineup wouldn't impact the team's play at all, and the only other result of him "jumping" that other player would be that others would think twice about doing the same thing again.


No, the only thing that would result is he would get a 2 minute penalty and 10 for instigating and the other team would be on a PP. The last thing a hockey player worries about is getting into a fight because of something they did during a game. Getting hit blind by Torres in the middle, lined up by Keith, crunched in the boards or glass by Chara, or the hit on Hank by Brown last year in the playoffs. That's stuff players worry about.

How does the fight help protect our players? When was the last time you saw a fight where you said wow they'll never try that again? For that matter when was the last time you saw an enforcer jump a smaller player and pound him into submission where it actually had the chance to make the effect you claim?

Just curious, which Canuck players do you think are afraid to play hockey because there are enforcers on the other team?

Edited by Dogbyte, 14 February 2013 - 08:53 PM.

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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#80 Kulikov

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

There is absolutely no room for him on our defense. We have the best top 6 defense in the league, and there is no way he is cracking it.

If you think he should play as a forward, then I'm not sure your point. We did have Hordichuck, and his 5 min per game didn't deter anything. Kassian IS a deterrent, and DOES step up when he needs to. He has enough skill to not hurt the Sedins line, and enough size, toughness, and willingness to take on anyone that crosses the line. We most certainly can be without him for 5-10 minutes in a game if it is a result of him providing that protection, and we have a lot of middle weight guys that are willing to step in and fight.

I think you may have forgotten that Vandermeer is a defenseman, but never the less, I don't see your point. It sounds to me like the media has gotten to you, because if you watch the game you'll see we're not getting pushed around more than we push back.

8-2-2 says hi.


Yes, watching Hordichuk get his face bounced off the ice by everyone he fights is a real deterent. At least Vandermeer can fight, but there are certainly better players that can fight out there.

For the record we do obviously need more messages being sent via fists, and our 4th liners don't seem to want to do their jobs in that department so something should be done.
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#81 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:57 PM

No, the only thing that would result is he would get a 2 minute penalty and 10 for instigating and the other team would be on a PP. The last thing a hockey player worries about is getting into a fight because of something they did during a game. Getting hit blind by Torres in the middle, lined up by Keith, crunched in the boards or glass by Chara, or the hit on Hank by Brown last year in the playoffs. That's stuff players worry about.

How does the fight help protect our players? When was the last time you saw a fight where you said wow they'll never try that again? For that matter when was the last time you saw an enforcer jump a smaller player and pound him into submission where it actually had the chance to make the effect you claim?


Chris Neil "jumping" Boyle during the quarter finals last season after Boyle punched Karlsson in the face several times unprovoked -- which Boyle also happened to do in practically the exact same fashion that one little rat on the Bruins did to Daniel Sedin a year earlier and with no payback given to him. The Sens lost the series, because they were the inferior team. But Boyle never touched Karlsson again, that's for sure.
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#82 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:57 PM

Read more carefully and think before you reply. I specifically said Ryp tried to bring intimidation, despite his lack of size. The guy had a tonne of heart but was just too small most times to be really effective in his role. Plus, because Gillis failed to bring in any one else of his skill set with more size, Ryp had to work extremely hard training in combat sports when he wasn't on the ice so that, when he was forced to fight because no one else on the team could do so, he could actually make an impact despite his small stature. What an organization Gillis has built, forcing such an outmatched guy to take on such a load.


Pretty sure I read correctly:

"Yet, what he tried to bring to this team was exactly what I'm arguing we need again for the first time in years".
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#83 Canuck hero

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:58 PM

ya gillis is such a moron to think that the fans are stupid enough to believe its his eye thats the reason for sitting him for a season... kesler coming back that puts the canucks at 69mill... just 1mill under the cap... with manny sitting out so does his 2.5mill... kessler comes in and now we have 4mill roughly... source gapgeek canucks .. google it....i just wonder how tough it was for manny when gillis is telling him your done for the season... lol you mean he was just fine last season...

Edited by Canuck hero, 14 February 2013 - 08:58 PM.

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#84 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:00 PM

Yes, watching Hordichuk get his face bounced off the ice by everyone he fights is a real deterent. At least Vandermeer can fight, but there are certainly better players that can fight out there.

For the record we do obviously need more messages being sent via fists, and our 4th liners don't seem to want to do their jobs in that department so something should be done.


Finally another non-lemming who doesn't simply agree with anything and everything that comes out of Gillis' mouth and mind.
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#85 Bure fan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:00 PM

Please face palm yourself hard enough to lose the remaining IQ that you still have.... which isn't much.



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#10 Pavel Bure #96


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#86 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:01 PM

Chris Neil "jumping" Boyle during the quarter finals last season after Boyle punched Karlsson in the face several times unprovoked -- which Boyle also happened to do in practically the exact same fashion that one little rat on the Bruins did to Daniel Sedin a year earlier and with no payback given to him. The Sens lost the series, because they were the inferior team. But Boyle never touched Karlsson again, that's for sure.


Chris Neil taking that penalty was acceptable because NYR had a crappy penalty.

If the Canucks had cashed in on the PP a few times against Boston, the result could've been different.

And you are arguing from the premise that a professional hockey player can't take a few gloves to the face without it affecting his game. I'm not so sure that's a sound premise.

EDIT: I should concede that I think the Canucks could be a little tougher. But I don't think they should sacrifice hockey ability for that. What is needed is a tough guy who can excel in a regular shift. Vandermeer is not that guy.

Edited by Mookie Wilson, 14 February 2013 - 09:03 PM.

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#87 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

ya gillis is such a moron to think that the fans are stupid enough to believe its his eye thats the reason for sitting him for a season... kesler coming back that puts the canucks at 69mill... just 1mill under the cap... with manny sitting out so does his 2.5mill... kessler comes in and now we have 4mill roughly... source gapgeek canucks .. google it....i just wonder how tough it was for manny when gillis is telling him your done for the season... lol you mean he was just fine last season...


I don't even... wha?

I'm just joking. My dislike for Gillis if never ending, but I don't believe there's any conspiracy around the Manny thing, if that's hat you're suggesting.

Edited by PrimeMinisterBure, 14 February 2013 - 09:03 PM.

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#88 DeNiro

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

Exactly. I forgot that this is CDC, and most of those posting on here know nothing of players beyond the Canucks current roster and maybe a few other players along the line of Crosby, Malkin, and Stamkos. Vandermeer has alternated between playing as a denseman and a forward for years, and if you took a moment to research him you would know this.


Everyone knows he can play on the fourth line. Don't feel special.

Does that mean that's his preferred position? No. He's a defenseman. It would be no different than putting Alberts on the fourth line, except that Vandermeer can fight.

Either way you'd be bumping an actual solid fourth liner like Volpatti, who has been excelling in that role. It's hardly worth it to have him fight once every 10 games.

Vandermeer, a goon? Five minutes a game? He's been a 16-20 minute guy and a decent stay-at-home defenceman throughout his career. Fighting is one of the things that Vandermeer that brings to the table, but he's a defenceman first and foremost.


Learn to read. I said that he would be gone 5 minutes a game. You know, the amount of penalty time you get for fighting.

He's a plug. Anyone that thinks otherwise doesn't actually know much about him. If he was as good as people thought, he wouldn't have cleared waivers.
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#89 Rounoush

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:05 PM

Ugh.
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#90 DeNiro

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:08 PM

Kassian? You want a kid to fight a man like Clowe or Lucic? I would hate to see Kassian fights any grown man...he looks like an 19 years old high school kid.


You mean like when he fought Eager and gave him a concussion? Yea, he really looked like a kid there.

And he fought Clowe in case you weren't watching. He didn't win, but not too many players in the league would. Clowe is tough as nails. He would have you pissing your pants if you had to fight him.

Kassian is a good fighter, but we need him putting up points, not sitting in the penalty box. He'll step up when he really needs to though.
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