khay Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 As a Canucks fan I'm fine with the call on AV - glad he showed some emotion for a change. What I'm not fine with is Hartley did the same earlier - even called the ref "an amateur" and swore and got nothing. Consistency is all I want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Its interesting Kerry talks about the working relationship between a ref and a coach being positive or just tolerable... to me that speaks volumes about where reffing is presently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutesi Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I seen a lot of coaches get away with way worse. With ten mins left in a tie game that's a brutal call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseGem2007 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Fraser's article made me boiled when I read it. ONLY thing fans want is a fair game being played. Meaning that what is called for on team, the same infraction should be called to the other team as well. FAIRNESS. I am getting totally frustrated with NHL games because of the referring and this is not only for the Canucks games. Referrees should also be accountable to the league for bad calls. But ..... I can only hope GO CanuckS GO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 This is true he does argue against specific calls, however, there is the issue about the credibility of the ref who made this particular call that Fraser is dancing around. Very different to discuss plays made at full speed and errors in judgement as opposed to the absurdity of this call. Why was this call made and not the one on Hartley? Why no warning with the game on the line? Fraser hinted that it was because Sutherland doesn't like AV. If that's the case Sutherland should be fired right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotecanuck Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 We're talking about 2 different things here. The other poster suggested the only reason Fraser supported the call was because he was afriad of admiting a mistake or being fined by the league. Both arguments are ludicrous considering Fraser is not affiliated with the league and has nothing to gain by protecting the ref. He also said analysts never call out the refs on bad calls which is even more inaccurate. The media is constantly second guessing refs. Your point about there being bias was actually addressed in his column too. He said relationships run from good to tolerable. The problem with expecting consistancy on a subjective call like abuse of an official is that is is entirely at that ref's discretion. Some things may not bother 1 ref that would be totally unacceptable to another. It's a flawed setup at its core but im not sure how you can get around it. You're dealing with numerous personalities (*coaches and refs) clash's are bound to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 You said if he thinks a bad call has been made he says so. I say he left out the Hartley rant because it didn't fit in with his narrative. And in this particular article I think it damages his credibility and is part and parcel with him circling the wagons for the ref fraternity. By bringing up Hartley he would have had to address the question of why one and not the other? There would have been no way around it. And honestly it wasn't a question he could not answer so he dodged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotecanuck Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 He didn't dodge anything. Go back and re-read the column. The reader asked specifically about the AV bench minor, and asked for examples from Frasers career. He didn't ask Fraser to address why Hartley wasn't penalized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37yrsncounting Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Taken from Fraser's column "Respect must be earned—not demanded" Why must coaches and players earn respect from the referees? Refs are paid huge money to officiate each game with an unbaised objective point of view. So is Fraser trying to point out that bias clearly exist in the NHL when it comes to officiating. Aside from that, hasn't AV won the division 5 times, the president trophy twice and also the Jack Adams trophy? That should be enough respect earned right there. Did AV as a coach ever fake a penalty or embarassed a ref? How bout Henrik when he was hammered by Mcgratton way late and absolutely no call on the play? Henrik, art ross and hart winner doesn't deserve respect? How do you earn respect? Daniel gets treated like punching bag and the respect he gets is a diving call a few games ago? Referees are there to maintain the rules and the integrity of the game and not to interject personal bias and clearly understands how to influence the outcome of a game, that clearly defeats the spirit of what a referee should be. Obviously Fraser doesn't see it that way but he clearly understands the power and influence referees hold as he concludes his column by lecturing AV "Take a lesson Alain. Bench penalties can sometimes be game changers" Just these two sentences alone tells you that the refs have certain bias towards certain teams and players. This type of culture is why its so frustrating to watch a NHL game at the moment. Burrows was right to speak out against the refs and so too was AV. This biased culture of current referees must change before any type of improvement can be found in the officiating of the NHL So basically Fraser is saying, yeah, we refs are bullies, either join the club, shut up or we'll make you pay! By the way, wheres Stephan Auger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WL Canuck Fan Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Taken from Fraser's column "Respect must be earned—not demanded" Why must coaches and players earn respect from the referees? Refs are paid huge money to officiate each game with an unbaised objective point of view. So is Fraser trying to point out that bias clearly exist in the NHL when it comes to officiating. Aside from that, hasn't AV won the division 5 times, the president trophy twice and also the Jack Adams trophy? That should be enough respect earned right there. Did AV as a coach ever fake a penalty or embarassed a ref? How bout Henrik when he was hammered by Mcgratton way late and absolutely no call on the play? Henrik, art ross and hart winner doesn't deserve respect? How do you earn respect? Daniel gets treated like punching bag and the respect he gets is a diving call a few games ago? Referees are there to maintain the rules and the integrity of the game and not to interject personal bias to influence the outcome of a game, that clearly defeats the spirit of what a referee should be. Obviously Fraser doesn't see it that way but he clearly understands the power and influence referees hold as he concludes his column by lecturing AV "Take a lesson Alain. Bench penalties can sometimes be game changers" Just these two sentences alone tells you that the refs have certain bias towards certain teams and players. This type of culture is why its so frustrating to watch a NHL game at the moment. Burrows was right to speak out against the refs and so too was AV. This biased culture of current referees must change before any type of improvement can be found in the officiating of the NHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotecanuck Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Taken from Fraser's column "Respect must be earned—not demanded" Why must coaches and players earn respect from the referees? Refs are paid huge money to officiate each game with an unbaised objective point of view. So is Fraser trying to point out that bias clearly exist in the NHL when it comes to officiating. Aside from that, hasn't AV won the division 5 times, the president trophy twice and also the Jack Adams trophy? That should be enough respect earned right there. Did AV as a coach ever fake a penalty or embarassed a ref? How bout Henrik when he was hammered by Mcgratton way late and absolutely no call on the play? Henrik, art ross and hart winner doesn't deserve respect? How do you earn respect? Daniel gets treated like punching bag and the respect he gets is a diving call a few games ago? Referees are there to maintain the rules and the integrity of the game and not to interject personal bias to influence the outcome of a game, that clearly defeats the spirit of what a referee should be. Obviously Fraser doesn't see it that way but he clearly understands the power and influence referees hold as he concludes his column by lecturing AV "Take a lesson Alain. Bench penalties can sometimes be game changers" Just these two sentences alone tells you that the refs have certain bias towards certain teams and players. This type of culture is why its so frustrating to watch a NHL game at the moment. Burrows was right to speak out against the refs and so too was AV. This biased culture of current referees must change before any type of improvement can be found in the officiating of the NHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Juice Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 If you've seen HBO's 24/7 you know that's all a heap of BS. The way players and coaches talk on the ice or on the bench would have people in the box perpetually. Horrible Reffing this year all across the league. It's despicable and it's hurting the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooBie604 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 It's not that the call was bad or unfair...it's that it is just inconsistent across the league. I wouldn't mind the call so much if they call it every time. Not based on your relationship with the coach. That's BS. If I was a teacher would it be fair if I gave detention to kids that barely say anything and let other kids get away with whatever they want? The refs just have zero accountability in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincible Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 All the conspiracy talk is nauseating. You lose when the other team outplays you. End of story. The Canucks aren't the same team they were 2 years ago, 2011 was their championship window and in this era of the NHL team's usually only get one of those. The Sedins are aging, Kesler's health continues to deteriorate and the team will slow down because of this. Yes sometimes there are bad calls, but this was not one of them and none of you would care if the Flames hadn't won the game. The Canucks lost. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papayas Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 All the conspiracy talk is nauseating. You lose when the other team outplays you. End of story. The Canucks aren't the same team they were 2 years ago, 2011 was their championship window and in this era of the NHL team's usually only get one of those. The Sedins are aging, Kesler's health continues to deteriorate and the team will slow down because of this. Yes sometimes there are bad calls, but this was not one of them and none of you would care if the Flames hadn't won the game. The Canucks lost. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37yrsncounting Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 All the conspiracy talk is nauseating. You lose when the other team outplays you. End of story. The Canucks aren't the same team they were 2 years ago, 2011 was their championship window and in this era of the NHL team's usually only get one of those. The Sedins are aging, Kesler's health continues to deteriorate and the team will slow down because of this. Yes sometimes there are bad calls, but this was not one of them and none of you would care if the Flames hadn't won the game. The Canucks lost. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooBie604 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 All the conspiracy talk is nauseating. You lose when the other team outplays you. End of story. The Canucks aren't the same team they were 2 years ago, 2011 was their championship window and in this era of the NHL team's usually only get one of those. The Sedins are aging, Kesler's health continues to deteriorate and the team will slow down because of this. Yes sometimes there are bad calls, but this was not one of them and none of you would care if the Flames hadn't won the game. The Canucks lost. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincible Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 That's the issue right there. People who don't hold them accountable and just say that anyone who sees a problem is a whiner. I don't care about the loss or what happened to AV specifically. I'm more concerned about the inconsistency across the league. Whether it's Canuck related or not the reffing is atrocious across the league and the comments by Kerry were very unprofessional. It has determined the outcome of many other teams...not just the Canucks. Montreal has been victim to some atrocious calls as well. If you watch games, not just Canuck games, and don't notice a problem with consistent reffing across the league from one game to another than you have some serious blinders on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooBie604 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I've watched a ton Canucks ganes and a ton of non Canucks games and if anything I've noticed the Canucks have way more bad calls made in their favor than against them. Honestly there are some games where it's a miracle that they don't spend the entire night shorthanded with diving penalties, granted those have gone down with Kesler out of the lineup. I know there are bad calls made all over the league but I'm just sick of those Canucks fans who seem to think it's only their team being victimized and that there is some sort of conspiracy against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 When the NFL faced a wave of criticism because of it was nickel and diming their officials and the replacement officials were ruining games on a regular basis, they did what it took to get the quality of officiating back where it had to be. On the other hand, the NHL ices replacement quality, unprofessional officials on a regular basis - but sticks their head in the sand year after year as opposed to overhauling the ranks of their mediocre officiating. Even Botchford got this one right - until there is some accountablity and transparency, the NHL will continue to tolerate wildly inconsistent game "management" and in that sense, will continue to be widely perceived as a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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