Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
- - - - -

Kerry Fraser @AV's bench minor


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
68 replies to this topic

#31 coyotecanuck

coyotecanuck

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,665 posts
  • Joined: 03-March 08

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:23 PM

Taken from Fraser's column

"Respect must be earned—not demanded"

Why must coaches and players earn respect from the referees? Refs are paid huge money to officiate each game with an unbaised objective point of view. So is Fraser trying to point out that bias clearly exist in the NHL when it comes to officiating. Aside from that, hasn't AV won the division 5 times, the president trophy twice and also the Jack Adams trophy? That should be enough respect earned right there. Did AV as a coach ever fake a penalty or embarassed a ref? How bout Henrik when he was hammered by Mcgratton way late and absolutely no call on the play? Henrik, art ross and hart winner doesn't deserve respect?

How do you earn respect? Daniel gets treated like punching bag and the respect he gets is a diving call a few games ago?

Referees are there to maintain the rules and the integrity of the game and not to interject personal bias to influence the outcome of a game, that clearly defeats the spirit of what a referee should be. Obviously Fraser doesn't see it that way but he clearly understands the power and influence referees hold as he concludes his column by lecturing AV

"Take a lesson Alain. Bench penalties can sometimes be game changers"

Just these two sentences alone tells you that the refs have certain bias towards certain teams and players. This type of culture is why its so frustrating to watch a NHL game at the moment. Burrows was right to speak out against the refs and so too was AV. This biased culture of current referees must change before any type of improvement can be found in the officiating of the NHL


plus 1.....

As an aside I have often wondered why the league mandated players to put their numbers on their helmets. Makes it easier for refs to make "judgement" calls I suppose.

(and also easier for teams to tell the Sedins apart!)
  • 0


"Who knows, the center ice ref might have had a better view than the ref 5 feet away."

#32 The Juice

The Juice

    K-Wing Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 44 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 11

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:25 PM

If you've seen HBO's 24/7 you know that's all a heap of BS. The way players and coaches talk on the ice or on the bench would have people in the box perpetually. Horrible Reffing this year all across the league. It's despicable and it's hurting the product.
  • 2

#33 DooBie604

DooBie604

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 516 posts
  • Joined: 22-October 09

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:31 PM

It's not that the call was bad or unfair...it's that it is just inconsistent across the league. I wouldn't mind the call so much if they call it every time. Not based on your relationship with the coach. That's BS. If I was a teacher would it be fair if I gave detention to kids that barely say anything and let other kids get away with whatever they want? The refs just have zero accountability in this league.
  • 0

#34 Invincible

Invincible

    K-Wing Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Joined: 03-March 13

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:32 PM

All the conspiracy talk is nauseating. You lose when the other team outplays you. End of story. The Canucks aren't the same team they were 2 years ago, 2011 was their championship window and in this era of the NHL team's usually only get one of those. The Sedins are aging, Kesler's health continues to deteriorate and the team will slow down because of this. Yes sometimes there are bad calls, but this was not one of them and none of you would care if the Flames hadn't won the game. The Canucks lost. Get over it.
  • 0

#35 Papayas

Papayas

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,601 posts
  • Joined: 17-May 09

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:35 PM

All the conspiracy talk is nauseating. You lose when the other team outplays you. End of story. The Canucks aren't the same team they were 2 years ago, 2011 was their championship window and in this era of the NHL team's usually only get one of those. The Sedins are aging, Kesler's health continues to deteriorate and the team will slow down because of this. Yes sometimes there are bad calls, but this was not one of them and none of you would care if the Flames hadn't won the game. The Canucks lost. Get over it.


try to explain how our coach got that minor when all he said was that it was an elbow?

it's more about win or loss.. it's about the integrity of the league when it comes to the refs as they are trying to define the outcome of the games.
  • 0

#36 37yrsncounting

37yrsncounting

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 252 posts
  • Joined: 08-May 10

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:52 PM

All the conspiracy talk is nauseating. You lose when the other team outplays you. End of story. The Canucks aren't the same team they were 2 years ago, 2011 was their championship window and in this era of the NHL team's usually only get one of those. The Sedins are aging, Kesler's health continues to deteriorate and the team will slow down because of this. Yes sometimes there are bad calls, but this was not one of them and none of you would care if the Flames hadn't won the game. The Canucks lost. Get over it.


Im a Canuck's Fan, when you lose to Calgary any which way, its hard to get over it.
  • 0

#37 DooBie604

DooBie604

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 516 posts
  • Joined: 22-October 09

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:02 PM

All the conspiracy talk is nauseating. You lose when the other team outplays you. End of story. The Canucks aren't the same team they were 2 years ago, 2011 was their championship window and in this era of the NHL team's usually only get one of those. The Sedins are aging, Kesler's health continues to deteriorate and the team will slow down because of this. Yes sometimes there are bad calls, but this was not one of them and none of you would care if the Flames hadn't won the game. The Canucks lost. Get over it.


That's the issue right there. People who don't hold them accountable and just say that anyone who sees a problem is a whiner. I don't care about the loss or what happened to AV specifically. I'm more concerned about the inconsistency across the league. Whether it's Canuck related or not the reffing is atrocious across the league and the comments by Kerry were very unprofessional.

It has determined the outcome of many other teams...not just the Canucks. Montreal has been victim to some atrocious calls as well. If you watch games, not just Canuck games, and don't notice a problem with consistent reffing across the league from one game to another than you have some serious blinders on.
  • 0

#38 Invincible

Invincible

    K-Wing Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Joined: 03-March 13

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:09 PM

That's the issue right there. People who don't hold them accountable and just say that anyone who sees a problem is a whiner. I don't care about the loss or what happened to AV specifically. I'm more concerned about the inconsistency across the league. Whether it's Canuck related or not the reffing is atrocious across the league and the comments by Kerry were very unprofessional.

It has determined the outcome of many other teams...not just the Canucks. Montreal has been victim to some atrocious calls as well. If you watch games, not just Canuck games, and don't notice a problem with consistent reffing across the league from one game to another than you have some serious blinders on.


I've watched a ton Canucks ganes and a ton of non Canucks games and if anything I've noticed the Canucks have way more bad calls made in their favor than against them. Honestly there are some games where it's a miracle that they don't spend the entire night shorthanded with diving penalties, granted those have gone down with Kesler out of the lineup. I know there are bad calls made all over the league but I'm just sick of those Canucks fans who seem to think it's only their team being victimized and that there is some sort of conspiracy against them.
  • 0

#39 DooBie604

DooBie604

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 516 posts
  • Joined: 22-October 09

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:13 PM

I've watched a ton Canucks ganes and a ton of non Canucks games and if anything I've noticed the Canucks have way more bad calls made in their favor than against them. Honestly there are some games where it's a miracle that they don't spend the entire night shorthanded with diving penalties, granted those have gone down with Kesler out of the lineup. I know there are bad calls made all over the league but I'm just sick of those Canucks fans who seem to think it's only their team being victimized and that there is some sort of conspiracy against them.


True. I don't think it's just the Canucks. I think it's a league-wide issue. I don't believe there is a conspiracy against the Canucks...that's not my argument. My argument are that the refs are incompetent and according to Kerry's comments, biased and call it based on relationships which is BS.
  • 0

#40 oldnews

oldnews

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,286 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:13 PM

When the NFL faced a wave of criticism because of it was nickel and diming their officials and the replacement officials were ruining games on a regular basis, they did what it took to get the quality of officiating back where it had to be.
On the other hand, the NHL ices replacement quality, unprofessional officials on a regular basis - but sticks their head in the sand year after year as opposed to overhauling the ranks of their mediocre officiating.
Even Botchford got this one right - until there is some accountablity and transparency, the NHL will continue to tolerate wildly inconsistent game "management" and in that sense, will continue to be widely perceived as a joke.

Edited by oldnews, 04 March 2013 - 06:48 PM.

  • 0

#41 MikeBossy

MikeBossy

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,803 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 05

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

I have always taken issue with officiating in the NHL - its something I like much more about the NFL and I am not a huge football fan. In the NFL a penalty is a penalty - theres none of this let them play crap. Yes I know if officials called every penalty infraction there'd be 30 powerplays a night but guess what. It wouldnt take too long for the players to realize a hook will be called very time , same as a slash etc. I also think the fact calls can be reviewed in the NFL with a challenge by either team has merit in the NHL. I am sick and tired of hearing and reading about officials not calling penalties cause this player showed them up once by diving etc. The fact that referees in the NHL admit they might call or not call penalties based on the relationship or reputation of a player or coach or team is frightening. They are supposed to be professionals and their job is to ensure the game is played within the rules they are supposed to enforce. Personal biases need to be left at the door.

Its one of the most frustrating aspects of watching the game of hockey - the inconsistancy of the officials I agree has been a joke this year but it always has been. The fact that certain infractions are penalties in the regular season but allowed in the playoffs is why this league will always be on the bottom of professional sports in North America.
  • 2


Thanks to R.Luongo. for the amazing sig

#42 bluesman60

bluesman60

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,419 posts
  • Joined: 18-September 09

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:25 PM

I didn't like the non call when Burrows got punched in the face 2 games ago. They really showed their bias in that game. Burrows has definetly been singled out.
AV and the players are going to have to have a bench clearing brawl and totally make the ref lose control of the game....then the league will question whether the ref is really doing his job well.
Tortorelli and numerous other coaches do 10 times the yapping at the ref than AV and they rarely get called.
It's time for a little frontier justice....
  • 1

#43 Hockey Fever

Hockey Fever

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,811 posts
  • Joined: 03-January 09

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

Never liked Fraser when he was an official why would I start listening to him now ?

Edited by Hockey Fever, 04 March 2013 - 06:31 PM.

  • 0

Posted Image

NHL Wikipedia : Operates Major Ice Hockey League known for predetermining Stanley Cup winners and rampant corrupt officiating

"I would love for (the Canucks) to win the Stanley Cup because that would put to bed all the talk about 1994", he says facetiously".
Nathan Lafayette on hitting the post in game seven of the Stanley Cup.


#44 VancouverCanucksRock

VancouverCanucksRock

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,399 posts
  • Joined: 11-February 09

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

All the conspiracy talk is nauseating. You lose when the other team outplays you. End of story. The Canucks aren't the same team they were 2 years ago, 2011 was their championship window and in this era of the NHL team's usually only get one of those. The Sedins are aging, Kesler's health continues to deteriorate and the team will slow down because of this. Yes sometimes there are bad calls, but this was not one of them and none of you would care if the Flames hadn't won the game. The Canucks lost. Get over it.

a sheepish troll was born yetserday at 1:57 PM.... Just admit it, you're against all conspiracies, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. It's not our problem you're so ignorant :)

Edited by VancouverCanucksRock, 04 March 2013 - 06:29 PM.

  • 0
Posted Image WHen idiots think numbers are words, I do believe in 2012 for cleansing Earth of the idiots

#45 rampage

rampage

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,036 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 08

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:31 PM

The reffing this year is an absolute joke. In the NFL when they had this type of BS hurting their game they did something about it. The NHL doesn't do anything and the refs in the NHL are a complete joke. I'm not taking about Canuck games im talking about all over the leauge. There's no such thing as consistent reffing in the NHL if what AV did last night was a penalty Tortorella would be behind the bench for 48 games every year not just a lockout season.
  • 1

#46 Hockey Fever

Hockey Fever

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,811 posts
  • Joined: 03-January 09

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:36 PM

ALL'S WE WANT IS CONSISTENCY !
  • 1

Posted Image

NHL Wikipedia : Operates Major Ice Hockey League known for predetermining Stanley Cup winners and rampant corrupt officiating

"I would love for (the Canucks) to win the Stanley Cup because that would put to bed all the talk about 1994", he says facetiously".
Nathan Lafayette on hitting the post in game seven of the Stanley Cup.


#47 thema

thema

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 992 posts
  • Joined: 23-June 12

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

I thought Fraser's column was right on, especially the bit about Al Arbour.

Oh yeah, there's also this (from Wiki)...

Fraser was voted the "most consistent" referee in a December 2005 poll[13] of NHL players by The Hockey News
  • 0

#48 Cromeslab

Cromeslab

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 841 posts
  • Joined: 16-August 10

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:43 PM

Some one should make up a video of all the bull$&it inconsistent reffing and post it where it will get a lot of play the nhl can fine coaches and players but they can't fine us fans.

Edited by Cromeslab, 04 March 2013 - 06:44 PM.

  • 0
Posted Image

"Where you've been is good and gone,all you can keep is the gettin there"Townes Van Zandt

#49 rampage

rampage

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,036 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 08

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:45 PM

I thought Fraser's column was right on, especially the bit about Al Arbour.

Oh yeah, there's also this (from Wiki)...

Fraser was voted the "most consistent" referee in a December 2005 poll[13] of NHL players by The Hockey News


Yeah and Oscar Pistorious was the most inspirational athlete in 2012. Not comparing the two just stating that what people think at a point in time doesn't exempt them from being something else at another time.
  • 1

#50 Dancin'Droid

Dancin'Droid

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 321 posts
  • Joined: 24-July 12

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:45 PM

ALL'S WE WANT IS CONSISTENCY !


That is what we want but will never get.
  • 0

DancingAndroidYellow-1.gif



2013 Kent Jr. Football Champion

2014 Bronze Boot

2014 Kent Sr. Football Champion

2014 SWOSSA Football Finalist 

#77


#51 Invincible

Invincible

    K-Wing Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Joined: 03-March 13

Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:49 PM

I didn't like the non call when Burrows got punched in the face 2 games ago. They really showed their bias in that game. Burrows has definetly been singled out.
AV and the players are going to have to have a bench clearing brawl and totally make the ref lose control of the game....then the league will question whether the ref is really doing his job well.
Tortorelli and numerous other coaches do 10 times the yapping at the ref than AV and they rarely get called.
It's time for a little frontier justice....


While I agree it's wrong for the refs to single a player out, since Burrows has somehow managed to get away with all the hair pulling, biting and nut hacking incidents without ever getting suspended or even a penalty if I remember correctly, I can't exactly blame the refs for having a bit of a vendetta against him.
  • 0

#52 Honky Cat

Honky Cat

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,586 posts
  • Joined: 16-May 10

Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:31 PM

After reading Kerry Frasers article ,it still isn't any clearer why AV was given a penalty at that critical juncture of the game?...For being "theatrical" or "standing on the bench" and letting his emotions get the better of him...So the parameters of the bench minor are all dependent on how sensitive the referee is feeling on that particular day?
  • 2

#53 Tru_Knyte

Tru_Knyte

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,355 posts
  • Joined: 25-December 05

Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

Officiating in the NHL has been bush league for a long time now. See no reason why that should change.
  • 0
Posted Image

#54 playboi19

playboi19

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,414 posts
  • Joined: 15-August 08

Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:42 PM


  • 0

Subbancopy.jpg


#55 jigsaw99

jigsaw99

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,261 posts
  • Joined: 06-April 10

Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:53 PM

funny how Joel Quenneville gets to get mad at every call and shout at the ref but when AV's makes one peep he gets called
  • 1

#56 Geoff Peterson

Geoff Peterson

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 428 posts
  • Joined: 09-June 11

Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:42 PM

Who takes the HNL seriously anymore...the Ref's in the last few years are a joke...the one Ref system was far better.
  • 0

#57 bossram

bossram

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,943 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 10

Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:46 PM

Go ahead and call the bench minor, refs. Just make sure you do it to every coach whenever they say something. Dont be selective.


Exactly this. Its within the rules to give AV the bench minor. The problem is they NEVER do it. They can't select one, individual instance to make the call, and then said call directly influences the result of the game.

The NHL is averse to consistency. The problem isn't the calls. It's that the calls change every damned game.
  • 0
What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#58 Tearloch7

Tearloch7

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,787 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 10

Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:17 PM

NHL has become a joke .. thus "we" get the officiating "we" deserve .. laughably sad ..
  • 0

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#59 rb4u

rb4u

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 296 posts
  • Joined: 01-July 11

Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

http://www.nhl.com/i...ge.htm?id=26327

Rule 39 - Abuse of Officials
39.1 General Description –A player, goalkeeper, Coach or non-playing person shall not challenge or dispute the rulings of an official before, during or after a game. A player, goalkeeper, Coach or non-playing person shall not display unsportsmanlike conduct including, but not limited to, obscene, profane or abusive language or gestures, comments of a personal nature intended to degrade an official, or persist in disputing a ruling after being told to stop or after being penalized for such behavior.
NOTE: When such conduct is directed at anyone other than an official, Rule 75 – Unsportsmanlike Conduct shall be applied.
39.2 Minor Penalty – A minor penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct shall be assessed under this rule for the following infractions:
(i) Any player who challenges or disputes the ruling of an official.
(ii) Any identifiable player who uses obscene, profane or abusive language or gestures directed at any on or off-ice official.
(iii) Any player or players who bang the boards with their sticks or other objects at any time, or who, in any manner show disrespect for an official’s decision. If this is done in order to get the attention of the on-ice officials for a legitimate reason (i.e. serious injury, illness, etc.), then discretion must be exercised by the Referees.
(iv) When a Captain, Alternate Captain or any other player comes off the players’ bench to question or protest a ruling by an official on the ice.
(v) If a player bangs the glass in protest of the Goal Judge’s ruling. If he persists, a misconduct penalty would then be assessed.
39.3 Bench Minor Penalty - A bench minor penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct shall be assessed under this rule for the following infractions:
(i) Any Coach or non-playing personwho bangs the boards with a stick or other object at any time, showing disrespect for an official’s decision. If this is done in order to get the attention of the on-ice officials for a legitimate reason (i.e. serious injury, illness, etc.), then discretion must be exercised by the Referees.
(ii) Any unidentifiable player or goalkeeper, or any Coach or non-playing person whouses obscene, profane or abusive language or gesture directed at an on or off-ice official or uses the name of any official coupled with any vociferous remarks. (see also 39.5 (ii))
(i) Any player, Coach, or non-playing personinterferes in any manner with any game official including the Referees, Linesmen, Game or Penalty Timekeepers or Goal Judges in the performance of their duties.

I've read the rules a few times and have yet to spot any justification for last night's penalty to AV...
  • 1

#60 Hairy Kneel

Hairy Kneel

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,115 posts
  • Joined: 01-November 10

Posted 04 March 2013 - 10:09 PM

Hartley SWEARS and calls him an AMATEUR and gets no call?...guess he must have been telling the truth then huh..
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.