This should give us cause for concern.....

[Bodee]

No kidding, not to mention the cutoff point nicely excluded Franzen's cap hit by $50K. Detroit does have less contracts a $4M or above, but then they have more than us in the $3M range and in the upper half of $2M. And Detroit having Datsyuk as a contract $600K higher than any of ours (and not forgetting Lidstrom's last year which they only lost this year due to retirement) as

I guess this is more of an indictment of Burke and Nonis, since the majority of the players we have at $4M or above were the core they drafted or traded for. Sure Gillis added some of his own, but at best you're saying he shouldn't have retained those core players from the old group since we'd have to pay them more for being high performers.

Then again, you'd have to blame the drafting from the Burke and Nonis years for not offering us better options in the mid range which Detroit is able to reap the rewards of after their years and years of good drafting. Gillis' efforts at the draft (and signing undrafted players) are starting to see fruition and you'll likely see four of those $4M and up contracts (Roy, Booth, Ballard and Luongo) replaced next year - but you don't just build a Detroit system in 5 years.

And then on Detroit they'll be adding at least Howard's new $5M+ contract and possibly an increase for Filppula if they can get him to stay.Brendan Smith is due for a raise as well, just not as much, and they've had enough trouble defensively all year that they'll be looking to add perhaps a contract there this summer. It's their D (and their average age) that'll be their downfall against Chicago so that skews the contracts a little as well.

One more thing, why did it matter how expensive our contracts are when we had a $70M+ cap ceiling? We spent to it, much like everyone else, because we didn't have that prospect depth to come in immediately and help from the previous GMs. We certainly weren't drafting high enough to have top end talent from the Gillis era fill those holes, and it's hard to emulate Detroit when you have to make decisions to help now on a team that has recently been to the SCF.

By $17K. Want to know why he makes less? Because his was the very first of the long term, back diving contracts. If he had a term similar to the Sedins, he'd be making much closer to Datsyuk.

The hockey in Detroit is great, but the city itself is terrible. The poor areas are only getting poorer with the recession from the economic downfall, and they were hit hard being so centered around the auto industry. Now, instead of using taxpayer's money to help the city, they're using it to build a new arena. They might need a new arena, but their city needs the help more.

In short, another selective, short-sighted thread trying to find fault rather than recognize challenges - and successes - we have since Gillis took over.

[Bananas]

Sorry, but all that seems to miss the point.

Detroit are able to put a better team on the ice for about 20% less cap. Who cares if the cape space was there, just because you have so much money, it doesn't mean you have to spend it..........That's the whole point in having cap space to strengthen when required for the playoffs. You point out they play great hockey as if that was a throwaway. Well compared to the crap we have been watching for 2 years believe me it's not.

Also one of the points I didn't make is the Detroit affiliate and it's ability to develop players. Gillis has been at it for 5?years and honestly watching our prospects in Chicago made me shudder.

As for your answer to the other post, for goodness sake get a grip, you have just made the point. We are paying premium to guys who get to live in one of the nicest parts of North America.

My post is selective only in as much as Gillis chose to select Detroit. If it had been somewhere else the same might have applied.

[Bodee]

Good to see you as well .. I was thinking you would be around CDC less this next couple of months .. you know, the only time of the year you can go outside there without gloves on? ..

[Bodee]

So did you miss the past decade when detroit was an all star team and paid its superstars really well or the cap end arounding it did before they got old and their players started to retire and leave? Yeah their cap situation is better then Vancouver's but vancouvers window to win has been more recent then the wings. They went for it and now are going to have to retool.

Also the Wings suck. Like really badly. They got beat like a red headed step child last night. Jimmy Howard was the only reason the hawks didn't make the game an embarassment. Their defense is terrible. Its slow and turn over prone. Dats and Zetterberg are old but still hace flashes of what they once were. The success they are having should be credited to babs. He has young players on the roster who really aren't ready for the league yet and has them playing within that system and has managed to win a playoff round which is nothing short of astonishing.

[Bananas]

Your verdict on that game has to be about the most bazaar I've seen in a long time. Kinda whacks on the head anything else you say so jog on friend.

[Dogbyte]

I agree that Daniel struggle this year thereby effecting Henrik's performance however I believe both Zetterberg and Datsyuk are much better 2-way players regardless of the trophies. Also, they are much less dependent on each other as far as performance is concerned.

[elvis15]

Sorry, but all that seems to miss the point.

Detroit are able to put a better team on the ice for about 20% less cap. Who cares if the cape space was there, just because you have so much money, it doesn't mean you have to spend it..........That's the whole point in having cap space to strengthen when required for the playoffs. You point out they play great hockey as if that was a throwaway. Well compared to the crap we have been watching for 2 years believe me it's not.

Also one of the points I didn't make is the Detroit affiliate and it's ability to develop players. Gillis has been at it for 5?years and honestly watching our prospects in Chicago made me shudder.

As for your answer to the other post, for goodness sake get a grip, you have just made the point. We are paying premium to guys who get to live in one of the nicest parts of North America.

My post is selective only in as much as Gillis chose to select Detroit. If it had been somewhere else the same might have applied.

[bhawks21]

He's a ref. He has no credibility.

[bhawks21]

No, it seems you've missed the point.

Detroit didn't become the organization they are today overnight. They didn't even do it in 5 years to become a successful team with a low cap and good prospects. They were bad for a number of years and built the team they are now starting in the late '90s when they were coached by Scotty Bowman and when Ken Holland took over. They at first brought in a number of players through trades and signings so they could win (spending a lot to do so). In fact, they were a cap ceiling team as little as 2 years ago and it's only been recently they were able to utilize their prospect pool more effectively as a larger part of their roster.

Consider first how Detroit got to where they are, and then consider your criticism of Gillis not yet being able to model the Canucks to an exact facsimile when he's had a third the time to do so. Maybe he hasn't won as many cups, but we've at least been to the finals during a time of sustained success. That's more than many teams - including the Canucks when managed by Burke and Nonis - can say.

[elvis15]

This is true but I don't think its time for a total

Rebuild. I think the second could win with a minor roster turnover and splitting the sedins up a LA Kane and toews

[bhawks21]

That's been my point (if I read that correctly), since the Blackhawks went out in the first round the previous two years but made only minimal changes. Look at them this year.

The Canucks have a little more to change perhaps, but it certainly doesn't have to be "fire the coach and GM, trade the Sedins, Edler, Burrows, Bieksa and Luongo, trade everything we have for top picks this year and rebuild." AV gone is a strong possibility, Luongo gone is even stronger, and maybe we do move another piece, but there won't be much in the way of significant change beyond that.

[131313]

He's a ref. He has no credibility.

[CroSen]

Kevin Holland is the GM there.  Even the mighty MG tips his hat to him.  Detroit has a huge advantage over us in terms of front office structure, drafting, and player development.

[Bananas]

MG's mistake #1: comparing the Canucks to the Red Wings.

[SamJamIam]

Looks like everyone's forgetting that Detroit is a ghost town. They can't sell out by offering 2 tickets, hot dogs and drinks for 50 bucks. Their cap situation is better than ours because their club is struggling and they simply can't afford to spend to the cap. The cap is being dropped for the American teams like this. They also aren't in a position to effectively use buyouts. We are and that'll narrow the gap considerably.

Nothing is more idiotic than blaming our GM for spending money we have while commending other teams that have their hands tied by finances. They're not more responsible, they're poor. There's a difference.

[CroSen]

Looks like everyone's forgetting that Detroit is a ghost town.  They can't sell out by offering 2 tickets, hot dogs and drinks for 50 bucks.  Their cap situation is better than ours because their club is struggling and they simply can't afford to spend to the cap.  The cap is being dropped for the American teams like this.  They also aren't in a position to effectively use buyouts.  We are and that'll narrow the gap considerably.

Nothing is more idiotic than blaming our GM for spending money we have while commending other teams that have their hands tied by finances.  They're not more responsible, they're poor.  There's a difference.

[elvis15]

I got auto corrected on my tablet. You read it correctly. It was supposed to say the sedins

[SamJamIam]

And yet they put out a team that is more competetive than ours....

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Burrows is overpaid if Franzen is making less than 4 million.

[Bodee]

You're not looking at the whole picture if you just compare their current AAVs (cap hits).

Franzen is on an eleven year "cap circumvention" contract. His deal started in 2009-10 and runs through 2019-20. He probably will retire before the deal expires and likely won't play out the last couple of seasons (when the cap hit drops sharply).

In terms of actual salary, Franzen is getting paid an average of $4.625 million during the period of Burrows new contract (from 2013-14 through 2016-17, when Burr makes an average of $4.5 million).

To really get a sense of things, you should compare these two players starting from the beginning of Franzen's current long-term deal (starting in 2009-10). From 2009-10 to the expiry of his new deal in 2016-17, Burrows will have been paid an average of $3.25 million per season (over the sum of his two 4-year deals). Over that same period, Franzen will have been paid an average of $4.9375 million per season. Even if Franzen plays out his full contract (through 2019-20), Burrows would need to sign a three-year deal (from 2017-18 through 2019-20) at more than $5.833 million/season before he'd have been paid more money than Franzen. I suppose it's possible that a 36-year-old Alex Burrows gets paid around $6 million a season but it's more likely that he ends up making less money (ie: less than the $4.5 million AAV he'll get from 2013-2017) on his next contract (as he'll probably be in decline by that point, if he doesn't chosen to retire or been forced to due to injuries--it'll probably time for Burr to start his broadcasting career once he's pushing 40).

Also, due to the terms of the new CBA (cap benefit recapture rule), when we get past 2016-17, if Franzen isn't playing anymore, Detroit will be paying out penalties for the cap savings they enjoyed over the duration of that deal (or they'll just have a $3,954,545 cap hit on the books for a player who might not be worth half that amount by that time).

When all is said and done, and however things shake out, it's almost a certainty that Franzen will have been paid a higher average salary (and cost his team more cap space) than Burrows.