The North Dakota Standing Rock Movement

[-DLC-]

Quote

Imagine that your children, brothers, sisters and virtually everyone you know... is dependent on the airline industry for work. They are stewardesses, pilots, mechanics, aircraft manufacturers... etc.

Imagine that your children, brothers, sisters and virtually everyone you know...is dependent on.....

 

clean air and water.

 

The rest doesn't matter after that.  "Occasional" crashes are monumental in their impact. 

"For work" isn't as important as "for life".

[clam linguine]

On 9/20/2016 at 11:27 PM, debluvscanucks said:

Imagine that your children, brothers, sisters and virtually everyone you know...is dependent on.....

 

clean air and water.

 

The rest doesn't matter after that.  "Occasional" crashes are monumental in their impact. 

"For work" isn't as important as "for life".

Pipelines have not destroyed any Canadian water bodies.  If there is a concern about air quality... quit heating, cooling and travelling. That will work...and that is worthy of respect.

[Warhippy]

20 minutes ago, clam linguine said:

Pipelines have not destroyed any Canadian water bodies.  If there is a concern about air quality, quit heating. cooling and travelling.  That will work, and that I respect.

Well.

 

I trust you will of course post factual links showing no bodies of water have been affected by pipeline spills.

 

While looking please read this lovely bit about a nice Canadian company named Enbridge and their issues in Kalamazoo and you know, how it's never destroyed a body of water, at least in Canada

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/enbridge-s-kalamazoo-cleanup-dredges-up-3-year-old-oil-spill-1.1327268

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/enbridge-oil-spill-five-years-later-michigan-residents-struggle-move-2022591

 

Oh, sorry wait silly me.  It HAS happened.

 

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/08/02/news/saskatchewan-government-unlikely-clean-all-husky-oil-spill

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/2854116/transcanada-says-saskatchewan-oil-pipeline-spill-is-shaking-public-confidence/

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/07/23/husky-oil-spill_n_11142170.html

 

Pesky facts....always getting in the way of baseless opinion

[clam linguine]

On 9/21/2016 at 0:03 AM, Warhippy said:

Well.

 

I trust you will of course post factual links showing no bodies of water have been affected by pipeline spills.

 

While looking please read this lovely bit about a nice Canadian company named Enbridge and their issues in Kalamazoo and you know, how it's never destroyed a body of water, at least in Canada

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/enbridge-s-kalamazoo-cleanup-dredges-up-3-year-old-oil-spill-1.1327268

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/enbridge-oil-spill-five-years-later-michigan-residents-struggle-move-2022591

 

Oh, sorry wait silly me.  It HAS happened.

 

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/08/02/news/saskatchewan-government-unlikely-clean-all-husky-oil-spill

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/2854116/transcanada-says-saskatchewan-oil-pipeline-spill-is-shaking-public-confidence/

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/07/23/husky-oil-spill_n_11142170.html

 

Pesky facts....always getting in the way of baseless opinion

This is what I said about the Husky spill a few posts back. 

 

This may have been the worst Canadian oil pipeline incident ever, but I expect it to be less damaging to the environment than one day of weed and feed in any one of our cities. You write that profits and stock prices are more important than water,  yet I see no evidence  of lasting damage to any water body even though we live on a veritable spiderweb of pipelines.

 

You find it necessary to change my words from destroyed to affected in order to go on your rant?

 

 

[chon derry]

On September 17, 2016 at 8:23 PM, clam linguine said:

  Maybe because there is foreign money available to protest safe, new pipelines because it can inhibit domestic production.  

so your saying that  virtually the whole of northern bc ,you know all the people that protested the enbridge line were somehow deriveing money , man i feel left out . kitamat residence took a plebiscite last year and it was rejected ,thats the terminus of this proposal , myself living in the north fairly close to the project , i never heard of any ridiculous claim of protesters being funded by foreign money other than you! never mind all the opposition to this proposal ,the federal gov, imposed a tanker traffic ban on the north coast ,i guess their being swayed as well.

[clam linguine]

7 minutes ago, chon derry said:

so your saying that  virtually the whole of northern bc ,you know all the people that protested the enbridge line were somehow deriveing money , man i feel left out . kitamat residence took a plebiscite last year and it was rejected ,thats the terminus of this proposal , myself living in the north fairly close to the project , i never heard of any ridiculous claim of protesters being funded by foreign money other than you! never mind all the opposition to this proposal ,the federal gov, imposed a tanker traffic ban on the north coast ,i guess their being swayed as well.

I am suggesting foreign money goes to the Sierra Club and other groups which are behind the protests and propaganda.  If they were worried about the environment they would be protesting to renew "dangerous" old pipelines instead of worrying about  new ones.

https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/194-sierra-club/

[chon derry]

1 hour ago, clam linguine said:

I am suggesting foreign money goes to the Sierra Club and other groups which are behind the protests and propaganda.  If they were worried about the environment they would be protesting to renew "dangerous" old pipelines instead of worrying about  new ones.

https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/194-sierra-club/

the enbridge line was/is still being protested by everyday people yes the sierra  club the suzuki foundation (david suzuki's daughter is married to a haida man) the WWF all have offices in prince rupert , as off right now theres 6 png proposals for prince rupert alone shell just postponed there kitamat proposal .all of these proposals are now up in the air because of global prices and a glut of NG ,theres virtually no opposition to any NG proposal.  there is one 'oil project going ahead by a company called" eagle spirit energy" partnering with none other than the aquilini group ,this facility will terminate here in prince rupert. any opposition by native bands up here are  being funded by joint affiliations with other bands , there may be some help from the groups you mention however it wouldn't be anything significant.  theres lots of pipeline proposals in this northern corridor and an equal amount of opposition, theres probably more plans on the books for gas/oil movement up here than there is in the whole province, short of the transmountain line which probably won't happen ,there by putting more pressure on this corridor.

[chon derry]

@clam linguine

[chon derry]

in the event the enbridge line doesn't go thru ,and its looking more likely it won't enbridge has purchased foreshore land north of prince rupert sold to them by the tsimpsian band, mr.colin helin from the tsmipsian band is the owner of eagle spirit energy and is involved with mr.aquilini . it gets pretty confusing since the eagle spirit energy group is private ,and probably won't face as much opposition, the enbridge oil facility isn't close since its only a contingency plan ,but that one will face opposition ,and its a joint effort with tsimpsian band, this same band has its hands on all of the png proposals, and last year it refused a 1.5 billion dollar payout for the lelu island lng proposal from petronas.

[clam linguine]

8 hours ago, chon derry said:

the enbridge line was/is still being protested by everyday people yes the sierra  club the suzuki foundation (david suzuki's daughter is married to a haida man) the WWF all have offices in prince rupert , as off right now theres 6 png proposals for prince rupert alone shell just postponed there kitamat proposal .all of these proposals are now up in the air because of global prices and a glut of NG ,theres virtually no opposition to any NG proposal.  there is one 'oil project going ahead by a company called" eagle spirit energy" partnering with none other than the aquilini group ,this facility will terminate here in prince rupert. any opposition by native bands up here are  being funded by joint affiliations with other bands , there may be some help from the groups you mention however it wouldn't be anything significant.  theres lots of pipeline proposals in this northern corridor and an equal amount of opposition, theres probably more plans on the books for gas/oil movement up here than there is in the whole province, short of the transmountain line which probably won't happen ,there by putting more pressure on this corridor.

I don't expect any projects will go forward in your region.  A few million dollars tossed at the Sierra club, Suzuki and the WWF and voila....hundreds of billions of investment diverted to unethical countries.  I am surprised those organizations still have offices up there.  

Historically Canadians have provided natural resources to the world.  That is what we are good at and that is what we should stick to if we intend to continue to lead our privileged lifestyle.  It's too bad that the perpetrators of the blackmail will not suffer like the future generations who will not be so privileged. Yes, we had the opportunity to secure wealth and prosperity for our children and missed out due to being duped into a fear of imaginary environmental issues by foreigners and misguided locals.
 

[chon derry]

41 minutes ago, clam linguine said:

I don't expect any projects will go forward in your region.  A few million dollars tossed at the Sierra club, Suzuki and the WWF and voila....hundreds of billions of investment diverted to unethical countries.  I am surprised those organizations still have offices up there.  

 

Historically Canadians have provided natural resources to the world.  That is what we are good at and that is what we should stick to if we intend to continue to lead our privileged lifestyle.  It's too bad that the perpetrators of the blackmail will not suffer like the future generations who will not be so privileged. Yes, we had the opportunity to secure wealth and prosperity for our children and missed out due to being duped into a fear of imaginary environmental issues by foreigners and misguided locals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

everybody expected either the enbridge line would go thru or the xl line ,one or the other but not both ,recently enbridge has popped its head up again, with down turn in alta's oil production  some line either the east west line or the xl line will happen , when the enbridge deal went down you could almost hear a collective roar of approval thru the north ,but some line what ever direction? will happen , it has to ,  if only to help spur the economy in alta. a line going somewhere is more justified now than it ever was. as for  project "not "happening in the region  petronas has already front loaded a tax payment of 80 million to the municipality of port edward  12 km south of prince rupert ,highway, rail and port access. if petronas doesn't happen it will be a postponement ,not a cancellation . the city of prince rupert has been received 18 million from another company wanting to hold property,first right refusal if you will. shell 's proposal in kitamat is a postponement as well . the container port here in rupert has been in operation now for 6 years and already going thru an expansion with a third expansion already being prepped. the reason for the ports success is 3 fold cheaper  land than the lower mainland, more available land as well , 2 days closer to asian markets than the lower mainland ,and far less congested logistics when dealing with container rail traffic, example 2 ships simultaneously leave the orient side by side one calls into prince rupert and the other one continues on to vancouver for the next 2 days ,the ship is offload in p.r.and containers on the rail system before the  other ship has even arrived in van, never mind adding the wait at anchorage to get into the port of van. they've already done the feasibility studies about the northern corridor against the port of van,seattle portland and los angeles ,  the prince rupert port wins hands down! i tell you all of the container port activity ,because it relates STRONGLY in any discussion about the movement of oil,thru the north. ALL large oil comanys are very aware of this geographical advantage,ad to that p.r. and kitamat are UNCLOGGED of vessel traffic. so i do beleave YOU have done some research regarding "PIPELINES" but to use your quote "i don't expect any projects to go forward in your region, tells me you haven't researched quite hard enough!

[chon derry]

 the enbridgeline that was proposed starting way back in 02 is what brought attention to the northern route, from an oil movement prospective the port of prince rupert has had a port facility since the turn of the century .if it weren't for charles hayes(owner of the grand trunk railroad co.) drowning on the titanic p.r. would have realized success way back then. anyway back to the topic have a look at enbridge's route ,its virtually a strait line out of bruderhiem alta this wasn't lost on all the residence along the way .were they just trying to tell everybody it was a coincidence? so everybody was supposed to believe that they were avoiding all environmentally sensitive areas? endbidges track record speaks for itself. the north would be a little more open for business with a more up front ,more trust worthy ,beleivable corporation ,imposing "their good ideas"

[clam linguine]

8 hours ago, chon derry said:

everybody expected either the enbridge line would go thru or the xl line ,one or the other but not both ,recently enbridge has popped its head up again, with down turn in alta's oil production  some line either the east west line or the xl line will happen , when the enbridge deal went down you could almost hear a collective roar of approval thru the north ,but some line what ever direction? will happen , it has to ,  if only to help spur the economy in alta. a line going somewhere is more justified now than it ever was. as for  project "not "happening in the region  petronas has already front loaded a tax payment of 80 million to the municipality of port edward  12 km south of prince rupert ,highway, rail and port access. if petronas doesn't happen it will be a postponement ,not a cancellation . the city of prince rupert has been received 18 million from another company wanting to hold property,first right refusal if you will. shell 's proposal in kitamat is a postponement as well . the container port here in rupert has been in operation now for 6 years and already going thru an expansion with a third expansion already being prepped. the reason for the ports success is 3 fold cheaper  land than the lower mainland, more available land as well , 2 days closer to asian markets than the lower mainland ,and far less congested logistics when dealing with container rail traffic, example 2 ships simultaneously leave the orient side by side one calls into prince rupert and the other one continues on to vancouver for the next 2 days ,the ship is offload in p.r.and containers on the rail system before the  other ship has even arrived in van, never mind adding the wait at anchorage to get into the port of van. they've already done the feasibility studies about the northern corridor against the port of van,seattle portland and los angeles ,  the prince rupert port wins hands down! i tell you all of the container port activity ,because it relates STRONGLY in any discussion about the movement of oil,thru the north. ALL large oil comanys are very aware of this geographical advantage,ad to that p.r. and kitamat are UNCLOGGED of vessel traffic. so i do beleave YOU have done some research regarding "PIPELINES" but to use your quote "i don't expect any projects to go forward in your region, tells me you haven't researched quite hard enough!

hehe...good for you. I expect you are correct, Petronas will be built eventually.

[clam linguine]

13 hours ago, chon derry said:

 the enbridgeline that was proposed starting way back in 02 is what brought attention to the northern route, from an oil movement prospective the port of prince rupert has had a port facility since the turn of the century .if it weren't for charles hayes(owner of the grand trunk railroad co.) drowning on the titanic p.r. would have realized success way back then. anyway back to the topic have a look at enbridge's route ,its virtually a strait line out of bruderhiem alta this wasn't lost on all the residence along the way .were they just trying to tell everybody it was a coincidence? so everybody was supposed to believe that they were avoiding all environmentally sensitive areas? endbidges track record speaks for itself. the north would be a little more open for business with a more up front ,more trust worthy ,beleivable corporation ,imposing "their good ideas"

Enbridge is a great Canadian company that suffered from the discussed disinformation.  The pipeline is too straight for you? omg.  Too bad your locals were so easily sucked in.  The country's financial future would be greatly more secure... free from the whims of our Southern neighbor.  Here is a quote about Enbridge keeping it's promises, from the article provided by @Warhippy  Thanks buddy!

 

Enbridge lived up to its promise

For Dr. Jim Dobbins, a retired family doctor and vice-president of a local conservation society in Marshall, that assessment of the company might be a little harsh. He admits he was sickened and angry as he watched the oil course under the bridge that spans the Kalamazoo just west of town. But when then Enbridge CEO Pat Daniel addressed a community meeting in Marshall soon after the spill, he decided to give the company a chance.

"[Daniel] said, 'We've made a mess and we're going to clean it up,'" recounted Dobbins. He admits to being pleasantly surprised.

• 

 

3 of 8

 

 

"I'm not angry at the company," said Dobbins, although he is rankled by the spill.

"But generally, it appears as though they have done what they said they would do. And that is clean up the river.

 

[chon derry]

1 hour ago, clam linguine said:

Enbridge is a great Canadian company that suffered from the discussed disinformation.  The pipeline is too straight for you? omg.  Too bad your locals were so easily sucked in.  The country's financial future would be greatly more secure... free from the whims of our Southern neighbor.  Here is a quote about Enbridge keeping it's promises, from the article provided by @Warhippy  Thanks buddy!

 

Enbridge lived up to its promise

For Dr. Jim Dobbins, a retired family doctor and vice-president of a local conservation society in Marshall, that assessment of the company might be a little harsh. He admits he was sickened and angry as he watched the oil course under the bridge that spans the Kalamazoo just west of town. But when then Enbridge CEO Pat Daniel addressed a community meeting in Marshall soon after the spill, he decided to give the company a chance.

"[Daniel] said, 'We've made a mess and we're going to clean it up,'" recounted Dobbins. He admits to being pleasantly surprised.

• 

 

3 of 

"I'm not angry at the company," said Dobbins, although he is rankled by the spill.

"But generally, it appears as though they have done what they said they would do. And that is clean up the river.

 

a spill in some of the remote terrain ,or river crossings wouldn't be as easy to clean ,the risk is to big and the benefit to bc isn't there i.e. job creation versus existing jobs lost in the event of a spill,the enbridge line won't happen , the eagle spirit resource/aquilini plan will happen with some opposition but that plan is rail movement to prince ruperts ridley island (book it),  industrial area  that already has the latest grain elevator , a coal loading facility , a propane facility and the lelu island proposal when the federal approval goes thru any day know, however ultimitly that will be up to  petronas timeline. the large section in the middle of the island is know cleared off and ready for the eagle spirit proposal the small island beyond that is lelu island /petronas site

[chon derry]

this is a better pic of both ridley island, and lelu island

[Violator]

according to google maps it looks like a pretty straight shot to the open ocean after that.

[Lance Vance]

I no one posting in this thread drives a car.

[clam linguine]

23 hours ago, chon derry said:

a spill in some of the remote terrain ,or river crossings wouldn't be as easy to clean ,the risk is to big and the benefit to bc isn't there i.e. job creation versus existing jobs lost in the event of a spill,the enbridge line won't happen , the eagle spirit resource/aquilini plan will happen with some opposition but that plan is rail movement to prince ruperts ridley island (book it),  industrial area  that already has the latest grain elevator , a coal loading facility , a propane facility and the lelu island proposal when the federal approval goes thru any day know, however ultimitly that will be up to  petronas timeline. the large section in the middle of the island is know cleared off and ready for the eagle spirit proposal the small island beyond that is lelu island /petronas site

 

This is why a cry myself to sleep every night....lol.  We won the lottery, yet everyone wants more, so we all get nothing.  All Canadians would have gotten plenty, starting with thousands of potential welfare and unemployment candidates getting off the dole.  Tens of thousands of permanent high paying jobs would have been created exploding federal income tax coffers. Oil and Gas royalties would increase.  The Oil sand aspect is a huge employer for fabricators all over North America.  When I'm in the States every second week I golf with someone who has worked, or knows someone who has worked, for Ft Mac.  Money for our national social programs would continue to flow.  The pain is going to start soon unless producers get  some encouragement. Otherwise,  look for an influx of ex pat British Columbians fighting for spaces to craft balloon animals.

 

I think what you really mean is Christy Clark wouldn't be getting enough to spend on her pet projects.  Maybe if Alberta stops making transfer payments it will become clearer how much everyone has been winning.

 

The pipeline was no more likely to leak than your plane to paradise this winter is to crash. All kinds of new unnecessary safety standards were implemented but, of course, it could never be enough to quiet the din of the tambourines.

 

Are you saying this Eagle spirit project doesn't involve a pipeline at all?

 

 

[chon derry]

7 minutes ago, clam linguine said:

This is why a cry myself to sleep every night....lol.  We won the lottery, yet everyone wants more, so we all get nothing.  All Canadians would have gotten plenty, starting with thousands of potential welfare and unemployment candidates getting off the dole.  Tens of thousands of permanent high paying jobs would have been created exploding federal income tax coffers. Oil and Gas royalties would increase.  The Oil sand aspect is a huge employer for fabricators all over North America.  When I'm in the States every second week I golf with someone who has worked, or knows someone who has worked, for Ft Mac.  Money for our national social programs would continue to flow.  The pain is going to start soon unless producers get  some encouragement. Look for an influx of ex pat British Columbians crafting balloon animals in Stanley Park.

 

I think what you really mean is Christy Clark wouldn't be getting enough to spend on her pet projects.  Maybe if Alberta stops making transfer payments it will become clearer how much everyone has been winning.

 

The pipeline was no more likely to leak than your plane to paradise this winter is to crash. All kinds of new unnecessary safety standards were implemented but, of course, it could never be enough to quiet the din of the tambourines.

 

 

 

 

tell u the truth I'm on the fence with all of this oil/gas i'm not against it and i'm not  sold on it yet ,some of the communities up here are and have been without since who knows when , for these small towns yes they need help ,but its a lot for some ,the enbridge proposal left a lot of people here a little leary ,skeptical ,because of how evasive they were and seemingly unwilling to listen to any concerns. all of it eventually will happen ,regardless of what anyone says. with my own job, as a highways foreman ,dealing with government oversee''er's  ,i,ve always noticed the more resistance an issue gets ,the more it gets fast tracked ,this was true with harper, jt slowed things down ,but even he's starting to realize it does have to move forward, it just has to be done with the utmost care up here with all thats a stake.