(Proposal) New Jersy Devils

[NMHockey]

24 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

How does the team look now, to you?

Who replaces Miller, Pearson, Edler, Tanev Markstrom, Demko, Are Brisebois, Woo or Myers top four defense men? Will Palmu be a good 4th line grinder? Jasek?

In 5 years even Horvat is approaching 30. In the 94 run there were only 4 players between 30 and 33 and the team had 14 players 25 and under.

 

Video games are much more sofisticated now but still don't take into account slumps, injury accumulations or other teams improving.

In 5 years other teams will be younger and divisional rivals have super stars that will be around then, sort of like Crosby and Malkin are hanging in there.

 

Have you looked at how many players under 24 are on this team?

 

Each 1rst round pick playing represents one year. If Horvat or Boeser, who can be replaced on a rebuilding team over a 3 year period or savy trade like the Miller deal then improving the franchise is not such a bad thing, besides Horvat might want a change of scenery, in 6 years he has had only one sniff at the playoffs and that was a quick exit. Boeser's injuries migh curtail his improvement or even his effectiveness now, it certainly didn't look like he should have had a rib injury, now a twisted and torqued back, ya. But Boeser might be a better trade chip to Minnesota.

 

Now with Pearson, Toffoli, Miller, Beagle Pettersson, Hughes and Virtanen as the team's vets and mentors, a you group might grow together at the same time ala Edmonotn of old and Colorado, Winnipeg, Columbus, New Jersey and Tampa currently

Video games? Actually I'm talking out of fact and out of what Benning and people are saying about our prospects. And by the way they're playing and developing as we speak. Also from my experience playing competitive Junior the last few years and having connections. Who replaces J.T Miller, T.Pearson, Edler, C.Tanev, Markstrom, and Demko? The prospects I spoke of and possibly other ones. Besides what makes you think players like Miller, Pearson, Demko need to be replaced in 5 years? They're all well under 30. Horvat will be 30 in 5 years so what? Players similar to him in Toews, Bergeron, Kopitar, Wheeler, Getzlaf, E.Staal, etc. are all past 30 and still playing at a high or Elite level. Someone like Pettersson will be like Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux, Backstrom, Thornton, Zetterberg, etc. and still be dominant past 30. Your point on players past 30 doesnt add up nor does your idea of the future of this team. I think you should do more research on our prospects and on drafted players from rounds 2-7. There's almost just as many 1st round pick busts as other round picks. Trading Horvat for 1 or two of New Jerseys firsts throws our process off and sets us back. Boeser is the only I agree should be looked at for a trade because of his health so far. There is a great team now with a mix of players under 25-26 and over. And at least half of them will still be just as effective past 30. Regardless. Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lind, Gadjovich, Jasek, Juolevi, Rathbone, Woo, DiPietro, Silovs, etc are all on the way to compliment the young core of Pettersson, Horvat, Gaudette, Boeser, Virtanen, Hughes, Demko, Motte, MacEwen. Not to mention Miller, Toffoli, Pearson, Leivo, Myers, Markstrom are all only 26-31 and could be a part of everything going forward.

[skolozsy2]

15 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

So quote me one  trade that returned 2 1st round picks (with one that’s top 6 with a shot at top 3). No team in the cap era is giving away two high 1st round picks. Horvst is a great 2C. But he isn’t a star player. 

I agree with this.  Horvat is a really good player, but not a superstar.  If New Jersey was really going to dangle their next two 1st round picks as trade bait, they are going after something WAAAAAAY more valuable than Bo Horvat.  That's just reality folks.

[Lazurus]

Just now, ZH96 said:

Video games? Actually I'm talking out of fact and out of what Benning and people are saying about our prospects. And by the way they're playing and developing as we speak. Also from my experience playing competitive Junior the last few years and having connections. Who replaces J.T Miller, T.Pearson, Edler, C.Tanev, Markstrom, and Demko? The prospects I spoke of and possibly other ones. Besides what makes you think players like Miller, Pearson, Demko need to be replaced in 5 years? They're all well under 30. Horvat will be 30 in 5 years so what? Players similar to him in Toews, Bergeron, Kopitar, Wheeler, Getzlaf, E.Staal, etc. are all past 30 and still playing at a high or Elite level. Someone like Pettersson will be like Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux, Backstrom, Thornton, Zetterberg, etc. and still be dominant past 30. Your point on players past 30 doesnt add up nor does your idea of the future of this team. I think you should do more research on our prospects and on drafted players from rounds 2-7. There's almost just as many 1st round pick busts as other round picks. Trading Horvat for 1 or two of New Jerseys firsts throws our process off and sets us back. Boeser is the only I agree should be looked at for a trade because of his health so far. There is a great team now with a mix of players under 25-26 and over. And at least half of them will still be just as effective past 30. Regardless. Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lind, Gadjovich, Jasek, Juolevi, Rathbone, Woo, DiPietro, Silovs, etc are all on the way to compliment the young core of Pettersson, Horvat, Gaudette, Boeser, Virtanen, Hughes, Demko, Motte, MacEwen. Not to mention Miller, Toffoli, Pearson, Leivo, Myers, Markstrom are all only 26-31 and could be a part of everything going forward.

Okay I see.

They still say Juolevi is star material if you listen to Benning, sometimes the people with an investment can exagerate a bit, Woo has taken a big step backwards, you have seen Brisebois and Chatfiled play already so why is Benn playing? You would think they would call up Lind or some other AHL guy to see what they have for the playoffs.

 

under and over? pretty much covers the entire planet let alone the team. Name all the 33 year old grinders, 3rd and 4th liners in the league, the issue is if you can then there are not many of them or they are point producers that play a perimeter game or super stars.

 

The prospects are still close, close is okay in horseshoes but not something bet the farm on. The team's prospect ranking has plummeted now that Hughes and Pettersson are not on the list, Montreal and many team not rebuilding have surpassed the team. In one year LA has.

 

If prospects are your staple then why after having the best draft position ever this team has so few playing on the team? Like is posted NJD in after their 2nd year of a rebuild have 12 players under 24 and are only 10 points behind the Canucks. They have an upside for 10 years and most of the Canucks team are gone in 5.

 

Moot point IMO somehow getting more 1rst round lottery picks works for ALL the teams in the league, the cost will be high unless the team is forced to shed salary so they can sign their own players. Only once has a team forced to shed salary received a lottery pick for a player they had to move

 

Where are the other draft picks from the first 3 years?

[Lazurus]

13 minutes ago, skolozsy2 said:

I agree with this.  Horvat is a really good player, but not a superstar.  If New Jersey was really going to dangle their next two 1st round picks as trade bait, they are going after something WAAAAAAY more valuable than Bo Horvat.  That's just reality folks.

It is the fit and the timing. They will have huge contracts coming up and Horvat's is not onerous. He gives them 5 years of experience and leadership and is still within 3 years of the majority of that team's age.

They have loads of prospects and can now move picks for established vets. Horvat is a FO machine. In NJ the picks would be forgotten about in 2 years if not sooner and the team has money issues I think, isn't the NHL running them? or they were just recently purchased?

 

Horvat for a lottery 1rst and one of their prospects isn't a bad deal either, because the Canucks do have replacements for the next 3 years.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Lazurus

[qwijibo]

28 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

Canucks for Gudbranson? a rookie McCann and a 1rst.

Foote and Canucks first to NJD?

Columbus and Ottawa 2 1rsts for Duchene

Sharks and Ottawa in the Karlsson deal

 

There are a few where the prospect was a 1rst round selection

 

Besides as unlikely as it was Gretzky got traded.

Way to ignore everything I said.  I said babe me a trade where a team gave up two high 1st round picks. I specifically said not a trade that included a guy that was drafted in the first round at some point.  The one example you listed was for a legit superstar player.  And both of those 1sts had conditions on them, and they weren’t in the same draft. 
 

Also, the whole “Gretzky was traded” arguement is the battle cry of a person who has no pertinent argument to make.  Gretzky was sold more than he was traded. There was actual money included in the deal.  In addition. It was at a time where the salary cap didn’t exist.  It’s an entirely different enviroment  now. The Gretzky trade has no applicable baring in today’s NHL 

[NMHockey]

6 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

Okay I see.

They still say Juolevi is star material if you listen to Benning, sometimes the people with an investment can exagerate a bit, Woo has taken a big step backwards, you have seen Brisebois and Chatfiled play already so why is Benn playing? You would think they would call up Lind or some other AHL guy to see what they have for the playoffs.

 

under and over? pretty much covers the entire planet let alone the team. Name all the 33 year old grinders, 3rd and 4th liners in the league, the issue is if you can then there are not many of them or they are point producers that play a perimeter game or super stars.

 

The prospects are still close, close is okay in horseshoes but not something bet the farm on. The team's prospect ranking has plummeted now that Hughes and Pettersson are not on the list, Montreal and many team not rebuilding have surpassed the team. In one year LA has.

 

If prospects are your staple then why after having the best draft position ever this team has so few playing on the team? Like is posted NJD in after their 2nd year of a rebuild have 12 players under 24 and are only 10 points behind the Canucks. They have an upside for 10 years and most of the Canucks team are gone in 5.

 

Moot point IMO somehow getting more 1rst round lottery picks works for ALL the teams in the league, the cost will be high unless the team is forced to shed salary so they can sign their own players. Only once has a team forced to shed salary received a lottery pick for a player they had to move

 

Where are the other draft picks from the first 3 years?

They haven't called up a guy like Lind because he's playing well on Utica and isn't ready. He's won't be 22 until October. Just because a prospect hasn't played yet (especially at 19 to 23 years old) doesn't mean they won't hit their potential. Defensemen especially ones with upside like Juolevi, Woo, Brisebois, Rathbone take longer to develop and just need some more time. That's why Jordie Benn and Oscar Fantenberg are here in the meantime. If you listened you'd see that the Canucks already piled up the 1st round picks that you speak of every team needing. Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Hughes are all here and all are respectively 50 to 82+ point players with leadership, size, grit, smarts as well as their skill. But in terms of lottery picks I don't really get what you mean. How'd all those high 1st rounders and 1st overalls work for Edmonton before McDavid and Draisaitl were gifted to them by Bettman? Lottery/Top 12 picks is not the way to go. One or two is good and the rest is smart drafting, developing, trading, and signing. Bruins were picking lower than 20th when they got Pastrnak. Lightning got Kucherov and Point in rounds 2 and 3. Flames got Gaudreau in round 4 and Andersson in round 2.

[qwijibo]

19 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

It is the fit and the timing. They will have huge contracts coming up and Horvat's is not onerous. He gives them 5 years of experience and leadership and is still within 3 years of the majority of that team's age.

They have loads of prospects and can now move picks for established vets. Horvat is a FO machine. In NJ the picks would be forgotten about in 2 years if not sooner and the team has money issues I think, isn't the NHL running them? or they were just recently purchased?

 

Horvat for a lottery 1rst and one of their prospects isn't a bad deal either, because the Canucks do have replacements for the next 3 years.

As it stands right now their pick holds a 23% chance of being in the top 3. There’s an opportunity to get a player that will end up being far better than Horvat. I’m sorry. But Horvat isn’t worth a top pick to a rebuilding team 

[Lazurus]

28 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

As it stands right now their pick holds a 23% chance of being in the top 3. There’s an opportunity to get a player that will end up being far better than Horvat. I’m sorry. But Horvat isn’t worth a top pick to a rebuilding team 

Was Miller worth a first, third and a prospect? One lottery pick and one around the late 20's, maybe throw in retention or another prospect. With the number of older vets signed the team will have those guys for another 3 years so their is time.

[qwijibo]

1 minute ago, Lazurus said:

Was Miller worth a first, third and a prospect? One lottery pick and one around the late 20's, maybe throw in retention or another prospect. With the number of older vets signed the team will have those guys for another 3 years so their is time.

Just stop. NJ is not trading two high 1st’s for Horvat.  They’re in full on rebuild. He’s a great 2C. But they have Hirscher and Hughes. C is not a big concern. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Just stop. NJ is not trading two high 1st’s for Horvat.  They’re in full on rebuild. He’s a great 2C. But they have Hirscher and Hughes. C is not a big concern. 

Sort of agree with you.  Jersey had better trade one of their two softy Smurfette centres for a big bodied boy, or they are doomed to suck for a decade.  Bo is not going anywhere.  

[Lazurus]

36 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Way to ignore everything I said.  I said babe me a trade where a team gave up two high 1st round picks. I specifically said not a trade that included a guy that was drafted in the first round at some point.  The one example you listed was for a legit superstar player.  And both of those 1sts had conditions on them, and they weren’t in the same draft. 
 

Also, the whole “Gretzky was traded” arguement is the battle cry of a person who has no pertinent argument to make.  Gretzky was sold more than he was traded. There was actual money included in the deal.  In addition. It was at a time where the salary cap didn’t exist.  It’s an entirely different enviroment  now. The Gretzky trade has no applicable baring in today’s NHL 

I did  the sharks and Ottawa or are you asking for one single instance where one player was a straight up trade for 1rst round picks in the last 24 years? Apart from the Sharks - Ottawa deal it is hard but it isn't impossible and if anything it does show how much you value 1rst round picks and all the reason to get more somehow.

Going on this way, the way the team is being run right now, will keep them in the middle of the road for a long time, it has happened before with the Canucks and many other teams, TO were and right now Montreal are stuck in the middle.

The Gretzky referral is simply any deal can be made, even to get two first round picks in one draft, Sedins, a most unlikely outcome but it did happen it just took a lot ingenuity and intelligence to pull off, maybe too much now.

The Kessel trade had two 1rst's too.