Gawdzukes
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Posts posted by Gawdzukes
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11 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:
Voiced this in the other thread but another mess up by our medical team. There was absolutely no reason for him playing extra games last season, the medical staff had timed it so that he would be able to start the next season but of course now he's going to miss some pre-season and not be up to speed for game 1 (if he even makes that). Stupid timing on our behalf when we really didn't need to.
Our team is so incredibly dumb like that. It's as if these meatheads thought we were still competing for something in January so they timed it to the day for his recovery. That's what that article was saying when it said be ruthless for once. Although this is just common sense. Wasn't he hurt in the first game? Just mind numbingly stupid, Ah, to be a Canucks fan.
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Waited way too long. Could have been ready months ago.
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He's probably the firth or sixth best winger if healthy. He also has some size and strong defensive awareness. He's probably an important player for us. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see him on the second line.
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9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:
Miller actually plays better at centre. Just need to play with him a defensive winger like Mikheyev or even Podkolzin. Even Pearson would work. Definitely not Beauvillier though, or Garland, or Hoglander. I like Klimovich. One thing I'd like to do this year is watch some Abby games. My friend lives out that way and when I go to visit I always mention going to see an Abby game. I'll probably do it this year. want to watch Klimovich and Raty live as well as Silovs and McDonough...
Yeah Miller was pretty good to end the year ... I wouldn't say he was necessarily better ... yet. However my thoughts were more so we might have better luck finding a rugged center than a winger. It's sparse on both fronts.
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On 8/31/2023 at 3:47 AM, Elias Pettersson said:
Kuzmenko Pettersson Mikheyev
Podkolzin Miller Lekkerimaki
Frederic Raty Klimovich
Joshua Aman Karlsson
I think Boeser will be traded, especially if Lekkerimaki is the real deal and can play in the top 6. Also, we need more truculence in the lineup. I would trade Rathbone, Hoglander and McDonough to Boston for Trent Frederic and Ryan Mast...
Arvidsson, Duclair, Bertuzzi, or Domi, might be options if Podkolzin doesn't show a big improvement. Maybe a trade for an up and coming 25/26 year old player. That line-up needs some toughness though and two way play added to Lekk, Kuz, and Petey. Frederic and Klimovich seem like reaches at this point. It would be very exciting to see Klimovich put it together though. Or maybe even target a center like Scheifle, or Reinhart, and push Miller to the wing.
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2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:
Lawson Crouse is a dream. He hits, fights, scores goals, kills penalties, plays the power play. Even took some faceoffs last year. We could play him in the bumper spot on the power play. At 6’4” 220 pounds he could be our new Bertuzzi.
I’d easily give up our 2024 1st plus Höglander for Crouse. We could give Arizona Garland back to balance out the salaries.
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5 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:
Myers in a top role hurts us. Myers limited minutes on a bottom pairing is fine. Only problem is you don’t want to commit 6 million to a sheltered bottom pairing dman but it’s not like we could move him and add somebody different at this point. May as well keep him for the bottom pairing/pk1 role. If we’re out of it just him being a RHD you’d get a 2nd or 3rd round for him at the trade deadline.
pk1 ? He's brutal though and was part of the league worst pk. Wouldn't Cole Soucy be better?
Soucy was excellent on Seattle’s penalty kill last season. He was on the second pairing for their shorthanded unit and was one of the top-10 (7th) defencemen when it comes to on-ice expected goals against per 60 minutes of shorthanded play. Soucy will bring some size to the backend and has the potential to be the top penalty killer for the Canucks’ defence corps.
It was also Cole and Slavin who did the majority of the penalty killing for Carolina this year, which is good news for the Canucks, because the right side of the PK might be where they need Cole most in 2023/24.We also have Hughes and Hronek that can play some minutes there. I'd play him very sparingly there, pk2 30 seconds but I do agree in limited minutes his outlook is far better.-
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1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:
Buddy his record prior to injury vs top teams was trash. His record after returning was nowhere near trash.
HOW DO YOU STILL NOT COMPREHEND COLIN DELIA AND SPENCER MARTIN WERE ABSOLUTELY TRASH.
Demko against top teams had a rough stretch in the first few weeks. After that his record IS A WINNING RECORD. Like god damn man.
one f**ing game below .500 and outscoring playoff teams. We had a handful of losses early while Demko was likely battling through something hence the f***ing injury.Good god man the PK was also one of the biggest crippling issues all season long. Tocchet came in, Demko got healthy and the systems changed, we had some call ups who played great and our PK got way better. We just added one of best PKers and built a better PK unit overall. We dont need Demko to play 70 games and stand on his head. We need special teams to do their god damn job and make life easier on whoever is in net.
Some of it was bad goaltending but a lot of it was horrible team defence as well. They were absolutely atrocious at times, a complete sh!t show and even Hasek would have struggled. It's too easy to just let the rest of the team off the hook, blame goaltending and a bad pk, snap your fingers and voila, say it's all fixed. The team in front of the goalie still needs to own some responsibility after that season and actually fix the team defence if we want them to improve and make the playoffs. I think that's why you're getting pushback here.
It's a fair position to take and I feel the players and the goalies both have lots to prove that they can be better at defending. I seriously wonder at the top 6, and bottom 6's ability to be tough on defence and be hard to play against. They even look weak on paper. After the last two years I think it's a very fair comment on @wai_lai416's part. Even with Vezina level goaltending we're not going to win many games giving away 40 shots a game and being dangerously out chanced two or three to 1.
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2 hours ago, Citizen Erased said:
Can he go down to Abby for a conditioning stint? It seems like that would be a good idea before he suits up for Vancouver.
He might as well just attend training camp with the rest of the Abby guys. I would assume he'll just as soon stay up with the Canucks and get into pre-season games to test himself if he's at all close. Which it sounds like it is. I don't think there is any benefit to that at this point in the season.
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15 minutes ago, Citizen Erased said:
Johansson might be NHL ready sooner rather than later.
Yeah good point. Apparently he slipped right in on Abbotsford in the playoff and got good reviews from the coaches there. Maybe he's a candidate to replace Myers sooner than later as well.
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1 hour ago, DeNiro said:
I don’t really see it as all in on winning a cup but rather all in on finally pushing the team to become a regular playoff team again. Then go from there.
The rebuilding or retooling or whatever you wanna call it stage is done. It’s time to put the pieces into place that gives this team a chance to push.
That means finding another two top 4 defenders. And finding some legit bottom 6 role players with some size and nastiness. I think the goal needs to be to find at least one of those top 4 defenders by the start of the season.
I couldn't agree more. It's nice we finally have a somewhat competent group but Cole is a stop gap, and Soucy is really a #5. Our goal should absolutely be to get another top 4 longer term Dman in there asap and definitely before the start of the next season. It's nice to have Willander, D-Petey, and even Mynio coming up but they are two or more years out most likely.
We do have a lot of cap coming off the books in the next few years so we should be able to target the players we need, and like you said earlier our 2024 and 2025 firsts should definitely be on the table. No more Benning moves of just acquiring random players who are decent contracts in isolation. We need to specifically find the right guys for the job. The good thing is we don't really need to find high profile point getters, just solid defensive Dmen who can move the puck.
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42 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:
@wai_lai416
Okay seeing how you failed the challenge of doing some research of your own on the 16 playoff teams… heres how it goesI’ll start with divisional teams and I’ll be doing 5v5 strictly because it shows truly the difference in who is better and by how much. Having a good PP vs the most dog shit PK doesnt tell much of the story when your goaltending is massively underperforming.
vs Pacific
vs VGK 1-2-0
GF 7
GA 10
vs EDM 1-2-0
GF 7
GA 5
vs LAK 2-2-0
GF 5
GA 6
vs SEA 2-2-0GF 8
GA 14
vs the Centrals playoff teams
vs COL 2-1-0
GF 6
GA 4
vs DAL 3-0-0
GF 9
GA 4
vs MIN 0-2-1
GF 3
GA 5
vs WPG 0-3-0
GF 5
GA 10
vs the Atlantic
vs BOS 0-2-0GF 1
GA 2
vs TOR 1-1-0GF 2
GA 2
vs TBL 0-2-0
GF 2
GA 7
vs FLA 0-2-0
GF 3
GA 7
vs the Metropolitan
vs CAR 1-1-0
GF 3
GA 5
vs NJD 0-1-1
GF 4
GA 6
vs NYR 0-2-0GF 6
GA 9
vs NYI 1-1-0
GF 5
GA 7
At 5v5 we held our own quite well in terms of scoring when you look at the QoC. Now factor in Delia and Martins atrocious GAA and sv%
We absolutely can compete.
where did we suck last year? In net and on the PK.
What did we do about it? Addressed the PK and have a healthy Demko ready to redeem himself.
5v5 we can score just as good as anyone.
One of only 2 teams to have 4 70+ point scorers last year. Make the saves we should make and kill a few more penalties and we are most certainly a playoff team. We had a -55GSAA. Way too many garbage goals to overcome.6-8
5-6-1
1-7
2-5-1
=13-26-2
28 points against playoff teams leaving us needing about 67 points in the remaining 41 games to make the playoffs, or a 31-5-5 record. That's a tall order ... we obviously should and need to be better against the playoff teams.
19 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:I literally quoted games after tocchet took over and I said it too.. who gives a f about the games when Bruce was coaching? Is tocchet going to employ Bruce coaching style? Not sure what’s so hard to understand yet you keep listing games prior. I might as well list games from previous season or records from previous coaches while I’m at it.
and it seems to me previous season have so much bearing on next season then you might as well point back to the bubble and say that’s the real Canucks and we are going to play like that next season the core is literally the same minus Horvat and throw in hronek. I forgot what happened the following season after the bubble because there was so many positives and optimism coming out of the bubble.
our defensive changed so much over the off season whatever happened last season is literally irrelevant. The game is played on the ice not on paper. We don’t even know if the defence will mesh or not with players playing above their role they played their entire career
only thing that’s relevant is the coaching style. I’m not a fan of it because it doesn’t seem to work against the good teams.
With regards to the coaching style I have to disagree. I am a big fan and we looked like a different team under Tocchet by the end, an actual hockey team. I do agree that getting outshot and out chanced as badly as we did is not sustainable and will not win us enough games. However I would personally put the blame on the personnel and not the coaching. We will see if 4 new faces on D can gel and change our fortunes. I think we'll be happily surprised but still challenging for a playoff spot, which will be a huge win for this group.
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5 minutes ago, 250Integra said:
I hope and pray that Demko stays healthy or else we're relying on Spencer Martin or Rookie Arthurs Silovs
Yup, make sure we have plenty of booze ready if that's the case.
I'm really hoping and I actually do think Silovs will be the backup. He's the far better goalie imo. Martin doesn't belong in the NHL.
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18 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:
Thats all 16 playoff teams and only 19 games played? Weird.
See bolded in my first quote
1) they are 1 goal losses and several of them are against top teams/playoff teams. Not only that, but NYR LAKx2 VGK BOS and Krakens =/= top 16 teams and all games played vs playoff teams.
2) I asked for top 16 teams, you returned with a few games where Tocchet took over. Idk how hard that is to comprehend, but its safe to say challenge failed.
3) the facts are in bold at the top incase you forgot or just ignored?
Not trying to get in the middle of your debate but I do find it quite interesting. They actually only played 5 playoff teams after Demko returned playing Dallas and LA a whopping 6 times (low scoring games)! I'm not quite as good as procuring the stats like you guys but my brute force method tells me we played 10 games against playoff teams since Demko returned Feb 27th, and he played in 8.
It looks like Demko went 5-3 in 8 games, winning two in OT/SO, while giving up 3,1,4,2,2,1,2,4 in reverse order of schedule (only 1 empty net goal that I noticed not included). Pretty decent but not enough to really provide concrete evidence of anything. 2.3 GAA in those games is a fairly good result though.
One positive there is he definitely looked like his old self down the stretch. I really worry about his health and ability to handle anymore than 55-60 games though. Our backup situation is worrisome unless Silovs comes in guns a blazing. He's in Van and practicing today already so that's great news.
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1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:
Sooo I said all 16 playoff teams… you listed a few divisional opponents.
You do realize we had 37 games decided by 1 goal right?13 of those were regulation losses. Thats just the games decided by 1 goal with Spencer Martin, Collin Delia and Demko’s horrible start that resulted in that many 1 goal games. 13 points we missed out on which would have put us in a playoff spot. Then you go look at the games where an empty netter was added, which I believe was 13 games where an empty netter sealed out fate? Then you look at points missed in OT. We had plenty of opportunities to gain atleast a point. Despite what our record showed, it was a lot closer than you and so many others are willing to believe and if we had just league average goaltending and not the absolute worst goaltending, we would absolutely have made playoffs.
You and sooooooo many others would rather view and speak negatively because negativity is so easy to feed into and keep the bitching and complaining going on endlessly. Positivity doesnt get that same attention because it takes effort to focus on positivity. To me there is plenty of positivity looking back at last season that gives me confidence that this is going to be a good year.
I like reality and being correct above either brimming positivity or self deflating negativity myself.
Reality was we ended up 12 points out of a playoff spot whether they were 1 goal losses or 5 goal losses they were losses. Every other team could make up these silly scenarios where they make the playoffs too. We've tinkered around the edges and addressed our league worst defence, but we haven't brought in any high impact players (besides Hronek).
As you say there are definitely some positive spin angles but they don't really mean anything concerning this year. Winning a bunch of no account games versus bottom feeders in garbage time doesn't really prove anything at all and has no bearing on this season.
We have 6 new faces looking at full time roles and a lot of competition in Seattle, Winnipeg, St. Louis, and Calgary for the wildcards. It could be a good year, or it could be a bad year. Our last two years and the starts we've had should have everyone guessing at what kind of team we'll have this year. I really hope we get off to an average start at least and we are in a position to compete for a wildcard. I think that's a pretty realistic and even dare I say positive outlook.
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29 minutes ago, aGENT said:
Yup, which is why as much as I love Garland as a player...he's got to go. Too much cap for a 3rd line player who's small and doesn't PK. I'm hopeful Podkolzin can grow in to that 40+ point, two way, hard to play against 3rd liner with some size.
As you guys discussed, Joshua can cover that factor on the 4th line.
2 hours ago, aGENT said:Some more size, grit and defensive ability on the wings would be nice...
11 minutes ago, aGENT said:Well exactly. None of those things happen to be true though, being the problem
Exactly. While Garland is far better than Myers imo it's like you have been saying all along. Square peg round hole. He simply just doesn't fit in and at $5 mil that's a pretty steep swiss army knife contract for a team with negative cap space.
I completely agree with your size/grit on the wings comment. It's just blatantly obvious as to where that should come from when you look at the roster.
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32 minutes ago, EdgarM said:
What's really funny is that neither of us know what he is thinking although you are acting like you know exactly what he is thinking.
If you respect Horvat in what he did to accomplish what he did last year, then good for you.
I hope he is very happy in NY.
I guess you like stats in place of team wins, thats your perogotive I guess, to each their own.
Horvat is a lot closer to 5 million then 8 million and I can tell you that for free.
No I don't know what Petterson's thinking exactly but what I said is just common sense. Why wouldn't you respect someone like Bo when they up their game and have a career year? It just shows you're being petty and irrational on the subject. That's like criticizing Pasternak for his great season. Like it makes no sense man. But if you have to be mad at Bo go ahead if it makes you feel better, it's your perogative. I guess Petterson doesn't care about winning either, or Miller, Kuzmenko, or Hughes for that matter. Bo also helped the Isles get into the playoffs and certainly seemed to care more about wins then points.
Personally I don't care about Horvat. He's no longer a Canuck but he's actually making $8.5 million and that will just cost you your sanity.
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2 hours ago, Viper007 said:
Shows how fans just look at "what have you done for me lately" way of looking at things. Martin the previous season was undefeated in regulation. But I guess he was brutal that year too according to you. Martin was decent until he was thrust into the starting job last season. He was overplayed and his play suffered. I think he will be fine as a regular backup. We just can't count on him if Demko goes down with an injury.
Well yeah, he's got 38 games total in the NHL so I think that recent play should definitely be taken into account. His play in the second half was absolutely brutal though (.871). Worst I've seen in a while. I think he was rated as the worst backup in the NHL. If he can provide decent play like the start of the year and his 21-22 finish (3-0-3) then great. Not a lot of evidence though. The problem I see is that Demko doesn't appear to able to play 65-70 games without getting hurt. So if he plays 57-62 that leaves about 20+ starts for the backup.
Hopefully you're right and my fears are misplaced. I'll be happier then heck if he can even play .500 and win 10 games but I'm awfully worried after watching his 29 games last year. It should be expected that your backup should be able to come in play semi-decent hockey if your goalie goes down with injury. Not just completely melt down like Martin did last year. I'd be way more comfortable with an upgrade there. Maybe Silovs comes in lights out and steals the job. If it's Martin I'll be nervously hoping for the best.
From the article
Acquire a better backup, or recall Arturs Silovs frequentlyWe’re not here to be cruel or callous, but Spencer Martin was the worst backup in the NHL last year, and it wasn’t even close. -
1 hour ago, RWJC said:
They offered the captain Horvat less than what they are paying Boeser. Even if previous mgmt set that precedent, you don’t take that much of a haircut under the team salary structure when you are out producing the majority of the roster.
it was insulting but it was intentional imho so as to make the first steps in facilitating change, which was the right move anyway. Team had become stale.
Yup, I was a big proponent of trade Miller keep Horvat but I've got to admit it admit it worked out fairly well. Miller is the more talented player, albeit older. As you say the team was definitely stale and no team can afford three 8 million dollar centers. We also got a decent return for Bo as well.
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1 hour ago, EdgarM said:
You know the " I am going to concentrate on the season " you know, before the season has started? This management team seem to want to pay their players "fair market value" , I am thinking Petey didn't think it was "fair market value" enough.
The only reason for the pause(contract talks) is so he can pad his stats to make his worth a little more. You know, kinda like his pal Horvat did?
If he decides to sign contracts like Miller or Hughes did, then I will admit I was wrong. If he holds out for more? Well, that remains to be seen and we will see what his real intentions are.
Yeah smart move on his part. He'll make more money waiting for the cap to finally increase and see if the team isn't a complete joke and out of the playoff race by December again. I would do the exact same thing if I was in his position. Very smart move.
I have to totally respect what Horvat accomplished last year. It's obvious he put a tonne of time into working on his release and his shooting. It's also obvious he spent a tonne of time working on tips and net front play, as well as coming into camp in incredible shape. He won 958 face-offs as well for a 57% win ratio.
It seems really odd to criticize a player for hard work and a career best performance. Really really weird take actually. I sure hope Petterson doesn't come in better than last year and score 50. That would be tragic lol. What an ahole
Edit: In addition I don't know if you were following along and forgot because it doesn't suit your narrative but apparently the offer made to Horvat was ridiculously low at $5.125 for 8 years. That is no where near "fair market value", as you claim.
https://clutchpoints.com/bo-horvat-insulting-contract-offer-vancouver-canucks-trade
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1 hour ago, EdgarM said:
I have concerns as well. He recently was getting help with faceoffs and still needs to show he is a playoff performer. I would hate for him to sign a long term deal and is not able to carry the team in the playoffs.
His attitude is eeriy similar to Horvat. Coincidence?
And what attitude is that?
Tired of playing for a crap team.
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2 minutes ago, Pears said:
I’ve been saying since June that Brett Pesce fits that bill perfectly. Bring him in, sign him to a 5 year extension and by the time that’s up, guys like Willander, D-Petey etc., should be developed enough to come and contribute full time. Just makes too much sense imo.
I'd be 100% on board with that. I think he might want to stay in the East and the US though. I totally agree though. The plan should be to have Willander come in on the third line and work him in slowly.
1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:This team is no where close to be going "all in".
We kind of are though. We have negative cap space, and have exhausted almost all of our assets besides Willander, Lekkerimaki, and our first. Unfortunately we've been all in for years and it keeps us from icing a better team. The article is dead right about that.
"Now, this is the Vancouver Canucks we’re talking about, an organization that never needs much convincing to make a push toward postseason revenue."
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This article seems more like a rough sketch of a school kid's essay but it throws out a bunch of talking points.
-If we plan to play Demko 60+ my biggest fear is he gets injured again. If we go with Martin all year I think we're sunk anyway. He's brutal.
-Our biggest factor will be trying to build a cohesive defensive unit, especially the top 6
-Once again we have a lot of new faces, can the team gel right off the bat or will we be out by December again
-Captaincy is unimportant imo
-I agree the team needs to be merciless for once, too much country club going back decades
-I've felt our 2024 first has been gone for awhile, hopefully it's spent wisely and not on a rental, a partner for Hughes would be wise
-I think we need to upgrade our top 6 somehow for our team to get to the next level, we're far to wishy washy with Boeser, Kuzmenko, and Garland.
-Hoglander or Podkolzin making strides would be a godsend
-Rick Tocchet, Foote, Gonchar, and the Sedin's could be a difference maker. What a great development for our club
-I would ditch Beauvillier or Garland for an upgrade if possible, not sure Beauvillier makes a difference one way or another
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2 hours ago, ilduce39 said:
I might have to change my hot take this year to people actually appreciating Garland. He’s easily our 3rd best winger (debatably 2nd based on how you see Brock.) After him its ACL injury Mikheyev, “never scored 40 points in a season” Beauvillier and some even longer shots like Pods and Hogs who haven’t shown consistency yet. We’re deep on the wings in some ways, but after Kuz and Brock it’s Garland and that’s it for surefire top 6 production.
On top of his 5v5 production, his underlying *defensive* stats last season were also fantastic and that matches the eye test from what I saw. He plays with an edge and draws a million penalties.
Considering our best bets to soak up heavy minutes will be Petey’s line head to head and Bleuger’s 4th line, Garland should be in an excellent position with Miller or Suter to add depth scoring 5v5 while putting in reliable two way play. I honestly doubt we try and trade him since the OEL buyout opened up space and other contracts age out.
I agree it's unfortunate that Garland is our 2nd/3rd/4th best winger. After how horrible we've been the last 5 or 6 years I personally find it odd that anyone would be defending any of these guys not named Kuzmenko though. That's like defending Myers because he was our third best defender. Big whoop. It's more of an indictment on how poor of a roster Benning complied than how good Garland is. It just simply hasn't been working period, and it's not Petterson, or Miller who aren't doing the job.
At least Beauvillier is expiring this year, Mikeyhev has size, speed, and strong PK ability. Boeser while I've not been impressed lately is a home grown talent with a year shorter contract. People are correct he gets a lot of PP points, but at the very least is a strong option there that pays some dividends.
If they can rejig the lines and Garland can find year long chemistry and production in the top 6 great, but I just don't understand the need from some folks to force him into a line-up at all costs when they clearly couldn't compete with the upper half of the league. For me it's about the Canucks first and foremost, not Garland. Maybe he can be a solution here but so far he hasn't been, and he has the worst contract out of our top 4 wingers.
I'm really hoping and I actually do think Silovs will be the backup. He's the far better goalie imo. Martin doesn't belong in the NHL.
I hope he is very happy in NY.
[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks
in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Posted · Edited by Gawdzukes
Anthony is really a positive thinker dream big guy which is fine but I assume you're more like me and like to know better exactly what you're dealing with. The thing he's missing is every goaltender, or probably 90%+ that aren't named Hasek or Tretiak are partially a product of the team in front of them when measuring results. Like you mentioned above. So yes our goaltending and PK let us down at face value but it's completely unrealistic to think the team in front of them had nothing to do with it. Especially when it's spread across 3 goalies and an entire season. Don't the players play on the PK and on the ice in front of the goalie during the games?
You don't need to be a stat specialist or even a hockey enthusiast to watch last years Canucks and see how brutal the team was as a whole. Numerous times the puck was given away in our own end with little pressure, how many times did Myers just gift the other team a goal. How brutal were OEL, Stillman, and Bear? It was cosmically pathetic. They definitely weren't playing for each other as Bear alluded to when he first got here. They didn't even a have a plan to work on to get better. In addition, it wasn't even limited to defence. The forwards were a mess, didn't back check as a unit, gave up on plays routinely, don't cover their marks, don't get stuck in, and don't make high percentage plays, leading to continual odd man rushes the other way. Any one that watched could see there were far more serious problems then simply bad goaltending and a poor PK plan.
Once again we face a season where the prior season was a complete mess with nothing to really build on. Tocchet looked like he turned the ship a bit but there is a huge learning curve and a boatload of work to be done to get this team playing winning hockey, and we don't have half a year to figure it out. Hopefully the players and coaches are committed as they appear. We're going to need 100% buy in, 100% effort, and a little luck if we hope to do some damage.