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Convincing John

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    [Report] Jim Benning to return for next season

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

    Stop using Toffoli as yours

    Toffoli isn’t comparing a different organizations failures to our organizations methods of team building to prove that signing a $30M bottom 6 is essential or you’ll be Buffalo. 
     

    Toffoli actually played on this team

    last year

    And we gave futures up for him 

    last year

    and he signed with another team for a year longer than the Roussel contract. 
     

    Toffoli probably Benning’s most embarrassing moment as a GM and this happened LAST season. Lol

    • Upvote 1

    [Report] Jim Benning to return for next season

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

    In case you havent noticed, having the whole team built by Benning has led to bottom of the league finishes while being a cap maxed team.

     

    Its a results based business. The results have not been there. If I was Aquilini I would demote Benning to amateur scouting and get someone in who understands the damage being done to the brand. Seattle is coming in at the worst time for the Canucks. They may pull a lot of fans from this market if this $&!# show continues.

     

    People may say "good riddance then!" but thats not how the Aquilinis should be looking at it. 

    A lot of people are just flat out done with hockey. I mean, I want Jim to do good. I want him to learn from his mistakes but he never does. With or against JB, you need a marketable GM. Outside of CDC which is this weird Pro Benning ecosystem, most fans are very ready for a change. If the majority, it’s very close. When you have that many people displeased with your product you’re going to get hit in the wallet. I wholeheartedly believe that he isn’t capable of fine tuning the roster into a cup contender. He just doesn’t have the ability to make that chemistry. Look at how many bombs he has had in that department. There is no indication that shows a break in that trend. 

    • Cheers 2

    [Report] Jim Benning to return for next season

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, BPA said:

    Well I think a winning environment is something to strive for.

     

    Otherwise look at BUF and CBJ.  Those teams are a train wreck.  You could also probably include EDM if they weren't so lucky getting McDavid and Draisaitl.

    Stop using bad managers to support your narrative. 

    • RoughGame 1

    [Report] Jim Benning to return for next season

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

    Why not when the cap was literally going up every single year. 
     

     

    60D10EB0-269B-4F35-8978-0AAF039DD026.jpeg 

     

    If we didn’t have Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Holtby, LE and ole long Neck we be at the very least where we are today as far as organizational prospect depth. We would be on par at the very least but most likely even deeper. AND we would have infinite cap space last year and this year. Imagine having this core with $20M in cap space. We missed a once in a lifetime bargain period because of how irresponsible Jim’s cap management was. Winning environment..... lol I don’t want to hear another word about a winning environment. This isn’t a winning environment guys. There is absolutely no proof that this outrages use of salary cap on the players mentioned above had any tangible influence on player development. Has anyone here ever played hockey? Think back to your development. Did you learn from a guy you were trying to displace from the roster or the coach telling you and showing you what you did wrong. Will a couple bargain bin vets help your young guys adjust to the league? Absolutely, do you need to spend like $30M on that? I don’t think so. 
     

    when I hear excuses like poor Jim, Luongo, poor Jim Flat cap. I just shake my head. How bout poor young emerging core that’s surrounded by hot garbage clogging roster spots for emerging prospects. 

    • Cheers 1

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

    Like BP said - one more season.  And I think this offseason gives a ton more opportunity than last.  I think it’s Bo, Miller, Pearson, Schmidt, Myers and LTIR Ferland signed past next year.
     

    If JB is canned the new GM will have a bunch of decent young / prime players and a lot of opportunity.  The only guy who might be hard to retain is Miller - he’s hard to read.  Bo is the only key UFA but I doubt he’s hard to bring back. 
     

    I’m not going to cry about not maximizing the cap this season - especially with how it’s gone.

    Yes we sure did MAXimize the cap didn’t we 

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

    Considering Horvat was the only decent young piece we’re actually not sitting that bad after 7 years.  The top 6 looks decent and with Hughes/Rathbone/Juolevi there’s at least some hope on D. Then a gem in Demko between the pipes - a lot of good pieces in place. 
     

    My biggest qualm is that I’d have preferred to build from the net out (Demko was a great start) but I guess “BPA” dictated moves like Boeser, Petey, Podkolzin... and the time we went with the D man in Juolevi didn’t work out vs Tkachuk.  

    I’d throw, handcuffed to the cap for the next 2 years as a Qualm 

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

    Building through the draft with limited picks. If you’re rebuilding plan is to rebuild through the draft, which is the only logical way of doing it, then you trade players to add picks and you don’t trade picks and prospects for a guy like say, Toffoli, and then show your terrible asset management and not resign him. That’s not a rebuilding move. Good try though

    Toffoli claimes he never even made an offer, hahahaha. Then Jimbo said he ran out of time. Seriously Jim, shoot him a text while you’re taking a crap or something. You can do 2 things at once. 

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    16 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

    What?

    You don't wanna pay for guys who are good in the room, but bad on the ice?

    Pay for guys to sit on the bench or in other leagues?

    Bring a "winning" attitude, while at the bottom of league standings every year?

     

    Haha, hey Bo Horvat I’m going to show you how to be a leader with my 5 points on the forth line. This is how you become a pro bro. Scoring only technically wins you games. The real win is trying really hard with no results. 

    • Haha 1

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    50 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

    How long did Colorado’s rebuild take exactly...??? And how did they do their rebuild?? 


    Through

     

    the

     

    draft

     

    How are we rebuilding?

     

    Through


    the

     

    draft

     

    case and point Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander, Juolevi, Podkolzin, Rathbone, Woo, Jurmo, Lind, Lockwood, Virtanen (he still has time, unfortunately it might be elsewhere) plus another top 10 this year.

     

    Look at the recent contracts that were handed out by Benning post Sedin era, compared to the contracts that were given out in the tail end of the Sedin era and look at the state of the organization in the final years of the Sedins and the years after the Sedins

     

    We were an aged core, we had no prospects, nothing within to organization to develop. Horvat was the only thing we had and if you go through Nonis and Gillis’ drafting, we got Edler out of that. No one else really materialized. Hodgson sorta kinda maybe did, but he retired very very early. 
     

    In the last years of the Sedins, Benning tried to hailmary a cup for them. He tried to buy a cup with whatever he could get his hands on to help. Even though it was grim and bleak for the Canucks. 
     

    After the Sedins retired, it was a rebuild. We want to remain in a competitive atmosphere EVEN if its a losing season. We dont want a losing culture. So Benning signed a bunch of stop gap players to hold down the fort while we build through the draft and develop players, before throwing them to the wolves. We had a rough 2018-19 season.  But we began to turn it around in 2019-20, we won 2 rounds and were no match for a cup contending team. We still required a bit more time and a couple more bodies. Benning UNLIKE OTHER YEARS, chose NOT to re-sign older players to 4+ year contracts, which would slow us down and derail the rebuild. 
     

    Look at every single cup winning team in the last 10-12 years, they all won and built teams through strong drafting. The further you look, the further back the drafting began. You dont just draft today and win tomorrow.

     

     


     

    Pittsburghs drafting/rebuild began in 2000 with Orpik, then Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Staal and won their first cup in 2008-09 and won 2 more in a 17 year span while drafting Murray, Guentzel (8 years for the first cup)

     

     

    Chicago’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2002 with Keith, Byfuglien, Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Crawford, Brouwer, Bolland, Hjarmlsson they won in 09-10 (7 years) they also won 2 more.


    Boston’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2003 with Bergeron, then Krejci, Lucic, Marchand and won 7 years later. They have continued to draft well from their cup winning season and are contenders nearly every year. 


    LA Kings drafting/rebuild began in 2003 with Brown, then Kopitar, Quick, Lewis, Doughty Martinez, Nolan,Clifford, Toffoli and Pearson, it took 9 years to win a cup and they won another

     

    Washingtons drafting/rebuilding began in 2004 with Ovechkin, then Backstrom, Carlson, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov and Vrana it took 13 years from the time Ovi was drafted to win their first cup. But they have always been contenders

     

    St Louis drafting/rebuilding began in 08 with Pietrangelo then Tarasenko, Schwartz, Binnington, Parayko, Edmondson, Dunn, Fabbri. They won a cup in 2018-19 (11 years)

     

    Tampa Bay’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2008 with Stamkos, then Hedman, Kucherov, Vasilevski, Cirelli and Point... thats 11 years to win a cup


     

     

     

    1. You make a lot of assumptions in your prospect pool to load up your Narrative. Lind and Podz? You really going to write them down on your core column? Settle down buds. 
     

    2. Benning didn’t choose anything. He had no choice. Well, I guess he choose Virtanen over Toffoli who in a recent interview said he wasn’t even offered a contract. 
     

    3. You sound like a QAnon supporter the day after Biden was inaugurated. Your little “insulation” theory sounded pretty promising at first but it has absolutely no merit whatsoever. They sucked for the vast majority of this “winning culture” I would actually argue that it’s held back prospects in their development. Healthy competition doesn’t happen when you gotta pay a 4th line plug or sit him. Those bottom 6 spots should be there for player development not for overpaid vets to go out to pasture. How many guys do you need to insulate a team? Like what’s the ratio? What %of your cap should be reserved for players who get paid to produce nothing but a great locker room presence. The answer is $0. If you can’t produce then why are you playing in the NHL? Let’s spend money on players that score, how bout that? 

     

     

     

    • Vintage 1

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    7 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

    Or you know, he could rebuild in a losing atmosphere.

    Ok, What are we rebuilding in then? Lol

     

    The excuses are tiresome the comparisons are tiresome. I don’t care how you rebuild, I really don’t.  Just know what you’re actually doing. The difference between Buffalo and Colorado is management. The method was the same. Jim tried to rebuild on the fly without a core. That hasn’t been done since the Brian Burke leafs. 

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    22 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

    He has definitely been cheaping out on the front office. But he has been a cap max spender for a long time now. 

     

    I think Benning's plan was terrible but I feel Aquilini was right on board with it.

    Of course he was on board with it. Listen, my point is you don’t become one of the richest dudes in Canada by wasting money. He is a business man first. If Jim is his portfolio manager, he isn’t getting return on investment. His good stocks aren’t outperforming his bad ones and for that simple reason, he will cash in and look to give someone else that money to manage. 
     

    It’s not a hidden agenda. Jim said, I want to rebuild while spending to the cap and staying competitive. Linden said full rebuild. FA thought he could take a shortcut with Jim’s plan so he went with that and here we are. Handcuffed to the cap, at the bottom of the league and no EP’s or QH’s in the stable waiting to bail them out. We have a core that’s ready to build around but we can’t cause we spent that money before we had the core. This is honestly the worst run canucks team in +20 years. 

    • Thanks 1

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    23 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

    There is a lot more behind the scenes on the business side that plays into that though.

     

    The Aquilini's would not want a true, long painful rebuild as it impacts the bottom line in lost playoff revenue and declining ticket sales. Vancouver fans may have been calling for one for several years but there is a real bottom line risk they would have bailed until the team was a contender again.

     

    Aquilini has not been shy about spending to the cap because he sees it as an investment to be recouped if they make the playoffs. Given the cap spent and the lack of playoff rounds (with paying fans that is) as a result, you have to wonder how he feels about the decisions of this regime though.

    Nope, sorry. He is too cheap to resign Ian Clark or hire a high dollar coach with NHL experience. Jim’s proposal was a magic show that fooled ownership. This was the disconnect with Linden. Now FA is looking at his ticket revenue $0 and the money he is spending (the Max) and sobbing. We lost Bracket, we are losing Clark and now someone is going to pay for FA losing all this money. I bet he starts with the one who was in charge of spending it. 

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

    Looking at his entire tenure, it has been an accidental rebuild at best. He has only been in a position to draft high most years because - if you look at almost every move he has made objectively - it shows a clear quick re-tool approach. That approach spectacularly failing every year is the only reason they have been able to rebuild the core.

     

    So his drafting has been good (other than EP none of the players in the top 2 rounds were anything but largely BPA consendus players at where they were picked, and the Virtanen and Juolevi picks were clear losses) but it would have produced a lot more had they actually rebuilt purposefully rather than failing at retooling.

    GMJB would’ve been a great bargain bin, full rebuild, cap floor GM. He did not build to his strengths. 
     

    Anyone who says Aquilini MADE JB spend to the cap seriously needs intense, professional, psychiatric intervention. The Aquilini‘s don’t even give their immigrant workers water, do you seriously believe they’d reject a proposal of a cap floor rebuild? After the Sedin’s? 
     

    HahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahaha
     

    that’s funny. 

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1

    Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

    in Canucks Talk

    Posted

    On 5/12/2021 at 7:58 PM, Alflives said:

    Isn’t this called rebuilding?  Look at the young players we have now, and who are coming along.  We actually look pretty good for the future.  Yes, it’s hard to watch our team do poorly, but the reward is we end up with a really good young team, with several good young prospects pushing from below.  It’s how a top team becomes a top team, and then sustains being a top team.  Draft a very good young core, and then have more young guys coming up.  

    You’re back? 

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