HighOnHockey
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On 8/29/2021 at 10:10 AM, Isam said:
Yeah they did. The big thing mcgroarty is he will need a year to mature after the draft, but the talent is there.
How would you compare McGroarty vs McTavish vs. Strammel? All three look like hulking kids with some skill.
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1 hour ago, Stierlitz said:
DP Scouting Team’s Preliminary 2022 NHL Draft Rankings http://dlvr.it/S6t0kzTIER 11 | Shane Wright | C | Kingston (OHL) | 6-1 | 187 lbsTIER 22 | Šimon Nemec | RHD | Nitra (Slovakia) | 6-1 | 192 lbs3 | Matthew Savoie | C/W | Winnipeg (WHL) | 5-10 | 181 lbs4 | Ivan Miroshnichenko | W | Omskie (MHL) | 6-1 | 185 lbs5 | Brad Lambert | C/W | JYP (Liiga) | 6-0 | 179 lbsTIER 36 | Logan Cooley | C | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 5-10 | 179 lbs7 | Juraj Slafkovsky | W | TPS (Liiga) | 6-4 | 225 lbs8 | Rutger McGroarty | C | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 6-1 | 198 lbs9 | Danila Yurov | W | Magnitogrosk (KHL) | 6-1 | 172 lbs10 | Isaac Howard | W | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 5-10 | 174 lbs11 | Conor Geekie | C | Winnipeg (WHL) | 6-4 | 205 lbs12 | Joakim Kemell | W | JYP (Liiga) | 5-11 | 176 lbs13 | Tristan Luneau | RHD | Gatineau (QMJHL) | 6-2 | 174 lbs14 | Ryan Chesley | RHD | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 6-0 | 187 lbs15 | Seamus Casey | RHD | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 5-10 | 161 lbs16 | David Jiříček | RHD | Plzen (Czech) | 6-3 | 176 lbs17 | Elias Salomonsson | RHD | Skellefteå J20 (J20 Nationell) | 6-1 | 161 lbs18 | Frank Nazar | C/W | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 5-9 | 163 lbs19 | Denton Mateychuk | LHD | Moose Jaw (WHL) | 5-11 | 192 lbs20 | Jack Hughes | C | Northeastern (NCAA) | 6-0 | 165 lbsTIER 4Justin Côté | C | Drummondville (QMJHL) | 5-6 | 152 lbs
Keaton Dowhaniuk | LHD | Prince George (WHL) | 6-0 | 154 lbs
Pano Fimis | C | Niagra (OHL) | 5-11 | 157 lbs
Maddox Fleming | W | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 5-11 | 176 lbs
Cutter Gauthier | W | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 6-2 | 190 lbs
Mattias Hävelid | RHD | Linköping J20 (J20 Nationell) | 5-10 | 172 lbs
Ryan Healey | RHD | Sioux Falls (USHL) | 6-1 | 170 lbs
Lane Hutson | LHD | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 5-6 | 165 lbs
Devin Kaplan | W | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 6-2 | 192 lbs
Charlie Leddy | RHD | U.S. U18 (USNTDP) | 6-0 | 172 lbs
Mats Lindgren | LHD | Kamloops (WHL) | 5-11 | 165 lbs
Brandon Lisowsky | W | Saskatoon (WHL) | 5-8 | 176 lbs
Filip Mesar | C/W | Poprad (Slovakia) | 5-10 | 165 lbs
Noah Östlund | C | Djurgårdens J20 (J20 Nationell) | 5-10 | 163 lbs
Mathew Ward | C/W | Swift Current (WHL) | 5-7 | 154 lbs
Seems a bit early to be doing tiers yet, but I don't hate it at all. I do think Nazar will find his way up a lot of people's lists.
It's not just his offensive skill, he's a force all over the ice. I see a lot of Lucas Raymond in him with the way he is able to force turnovers and get right on the attack. Here's some tenacity on the PK, against Mats Lindgren:
Forces his own turnover and gone:
Here is Nazar against Ivan Miroshnichenko:
https://youtu.be/i96GC6fUS-4?t=657
And Nazar against Michkov:
https://youtu.be/i96GC6fUS-4?t=4714
I also think Yurov should be in the first tier. There are times I like him better than Miro. Miro has freakish raw natural gifts, but I think Yurov's understanding and processing of the game is up there with anyone in this draft class. Wright, Cooley and Hutson are the other guys at the top of that list for me.
The only guys not listed here who I think absolutely need to be are Jonathan Lekkerimaki, Calle Odelius and Elmeri Laakso. Lekkerimaki reminds me a lot of Magnus Paajarvi. He will be a prospect to watch just becasue of his speed and quickness. He is a better finisher than Paajarvi, but it remains to be seen if he is a better all-around play-creator. Odellius is a brilliant transitional defenseman. Could be a like a Devon Toews or Mackenzie Weegar..Elmeri Laakso is an electric offensive defenseman in the mold of recent Finns Heiskanen and Heimosalmi. It is easy to write off Laakso because he played in the Finnish U18 league last year while most top prospects were already in U20 leagues, but his U20 club was absolutely stacked with 19-21 year old Ds. He'll be a sleeper to watch for.
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I watched another game of Sweden from Hlinkas, and I think you're right about Salomonsson; doesn't look like a top ten pick, at least not at this point, not in this draft. I just look at the stats from last year and albeit a small sample size, they are historic. Whenever I watch him there are flashes of brilliance, but I come away overall disappointed. I always want to give him the benefit of the doubt because of the August 31 birthday - he's practically a late birthday. But then I compare him to actual late birthdays from the 2003 class, and you had guys like Simon Forsmark, Ludwig Persson, Jack Devine, who were among the top five or so players for their U17 teams, but don't look like probable first round picks at this point, vs. Danila Yurov and Brad Lambert, who have always been the best players on their national programs (although I thought Svechkov and Yurov were close). Just being good as a younger player isn't enough to put you in the top ten, certainly not in a draft like this.
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Hell of a deal for Batherson. I was expecting they'd have to take a bridge.
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47 minutes ago, grumpyone said:
I don't understand why? Hughes hasn't won anything yet
Yes you do. Don't play dumb. Think about it from his and his agent's point of view. If you want to get him for what he's worth right now you need a bridge deal. If you want to sign him long term you have to pay for potential.
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48 minutes ago, grumpyone said:
then Hughes should be about 8yrs @ 6-6.5
Good luck with that.
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The NTDP U18 team has 18 games on the slate against college teams this year. Looks like roughly half are against ACHA and NCAA DIII teams, but there's also a handful of ego-check games against Wisconsin, Michigan, BU, Notre Dame and UND. Season set to start September 17 against USHL Muskegon.
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48 minutes ago, Isam said:
U18s are big step up, but i believe he can do it. He was a force at the youth olympics for the states in probably the best competition that i have ever seen assembled for that event.
Usually USA had Strammel-McGroarty on one line and then Howard-Nazar on another at YOG. I recall the only time USA had any sustained pressure against Russia in the gold medal game was late in the third period out of desperation they put McGroarty and Nazar together. I believe at one point they even pinned the Miro-Michkov line for a shift.
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10 minutes ago, Isam said:
Another name look at in this draft is ryan chesly.
I saw a list recently - it was from some sort of media scouting service I wasn't familiar with - but they had Chesley in their top 5. Looking at the stats it would make sense actually, as his numbers have been almost unheard of for the U17 program. I just wonder if all the kids from that program have their numbers and reputations a little inflated though. Usually they play a bunch of little 4 and 5 nation tournaments against top opponents like Russia, Sweden, Finland. This year there was no such things, so they got an unusually high proportion of games against NAHL, aside from the regular USHL schedule. McGroarty, Howard, Nazar, Casey, Hutson, Chesley, Cooley, Strammel, Kaplan. NAHL is easy pickings for those guys. If all these players are really as good as they seem, this should be as good or better than the 2018-'19 program. I don't think that is quite the case, although I do think it is one of the best groups they've had in years.
But back to Chesley in particular, from my limited viewings, I've seen him as a first round pick, but haven't seen anything that would indicate top 5 or 10, so I dunno. The one thing that rubbed me the wrong way about Chesley was in the YOG gold medal game, USA was being outplayed by Russia and was down in the third - I believe the score was 2-0 at that point, so the game was still within reach - and Chesley kicked a Russian players stick that was on the ice, resulting in a penalty. It was purely out of frustration, and the last thing you wanna do is give Miro-Michkov free powerplay opportunities. Not a huge deal for a 15 year old, but I'll take every data point available.
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On 8/22/2021 at 3:14 PM, Isam said:
Interesting that you dont have mcgroarty on there
Lol just came across my top 5 lists from March and October of 2020:
March 2020
1. Shane Wright
2. Ivan Miroshnichenko
3. Rutger McGroarty
4. Matthew Savoie
5. Brad LambertOctober 2020
1. Shane Wright
2. Ivan Miroschnichenko
3. Matthew Savoie
4. Brad Lambert
5. Rutger McGroartyBut at those times I was still going largely off of stats. McGroarty was a stocky kid from early on, and his performance with the U18 team this year was somewhat underwhelming, leaving me with suspicions that his size was a disproportionate factor in his dominance at younger levels. Watching him play, I see flashes of something like Jamie Benn, but also long stretches where I barely notice him. Excited to see how this season goes, as if he can bring that A game more consistently, he's likely a top five pick; if not, he could easily fall out of the top 10.
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17 hours ago, Stierlitz said:
16-year old Matvey Michkov made his KHL debut for SKA St.Petersburg vs KHL Sochi club in the Nikolai Puchkov tournament and scored goal on partial breakaway. Today he played his second game for SKA against Severstal.
Well, pre-season debut. Season starts September 1st. Pretty sure he'll be on the roster.
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2 minutes ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:
Jesus you have said What If more times then that Disney+ series, yes there are a lot of What If’s like is Eichel going to be the same player and that is why the Sabres will have to settle from something close to this with maybe a 1st rounder thrown in but you need to be salary cap compliant when doing these trades so I don’t get where you are coming from when saying I can’t just make trades to make the cap work but what do you think happens in most NHL trades?
I'm happy to entertain these ideas of yours if you are actually reading my replies. If not I'm not gonna waste my time.
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2 minutes ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:
He is part of a program of getting inner city African Americans to play hockey in Los Angeles neighborhoods like Compton and Watts and there is a lot of hope of kid from inner city LA to make the NHL in the future. Plus they just are high on him too much as now 2C if Eichel is on the team but was expected to take over for Kopitar in 3 or 4 years as 1C.
LA has a lot of prospects and obviously it would start with Turcotte and Madden and Lias Andersson and draft picks and probably Iafallo and some other player or players to come close on money in money in trades with tight on cap space for the Kings when adding $10,000,000 cap hitBut again this is video game style thinking. You don't trade a player like Eichel for just prospects, picks and add in players to make the cap work. Imagine if none of those prospects or picks turns out the way they're supposed to and it comes off as one of the worst trades in NHL history. You need to get at least one really legitimate established piece.
I mean, ok, I guess the Erik Karlsson trade was something along those lines, but very different situations between Karlsson on the last year of his contract and Eichel with 5 years remaining.
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3 minutes ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:
LA is not trading Byfield, he is too big a part of their plans and marketing to trade
Interesting. My initial thought was "no way I do that if I'm Buffalo." I guess I just don't value potential the way a lot of folks do. Show me results.
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1 hour ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:
Holtz, Eichel, Raymond will blowup the league and having Seider and Ty Smith the Canucks retooled their player assets to content longer with lots of cap room now like $10Million worth
Might. They are still prospects. I'm a big fan of both but Holtz didn't have such a great year.
Nothing about any of this makes sense. The team would be taking a huge step back in the short term in exchange for a lot of potential that may or may not live up to expectations. Way too much risk. But the most important thing is you had fun.
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20 minutes ago, King Heffy said:
He is still responsible for what he says. If he is unable to conduct himself like an adult then he needs to be institutionalized until he can.
Not really interested in that, but if you think these comments deserve to have him institutionalized, that's your prerogative. My point was about stuff like that article someone above posted, "Prust is bad at Twitter," featuring lines like "[a]s a single man on the verge of a nervous breakdown, I don’t expect Prust to be able to mentally comprehend..."
How are you gonna pretend to acknowledge mental illness and then insult him for it in the same sentence. And how much you wanna bet these same people are tweeting "Bell lets talk" every year.
Rypien, Boogard and Belak wasn't all that long ago, and the debate about fighting in hockey and CTE rages on. Personally I'm all for fighting in hockey, and I'm all for making fun of actual idiots like Sean Avery for instance, but I also think empathy is important when called for, and that it is important to try to differentiate between idiocy and mental instability. and just from reading a couple tweets from this guy, it seems to me like he is in a really dark place.
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5 minutes ago, 4petesake said:
His actual tweet.
Everyone calling this guy an idiot and making jokes about one too many punch to the head ought to read this carefully and try to put yourself in his shoes. This is a seriously disturbed person. He is not well.
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16 minutes ago, Isam said:
Salomonsson. I got him ranked in my 12 to 13 range. I would also drop nazar out of that list and add in geekie.
I mean yeah sure, to each his own. Those all seem like reasonable opinions. Haven't got to see Geekie play yet myself but the numbers seem telling. I've seen a few games of McGroarty and he looks spectacular at times, but seems really inconsistent to me. Like I said, I'm sure Nazar won't actually go that high, but I like him - he's the most fun prospect in the class to watch and the upside seems tremendous. If I was trying to make a prediction of how the draft will actually play out it would look a little different. but I guess the best way to describe the thought process behind my list would be "who would I be most excited for one of my favorite teams to draft?"
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16 minutes ago, Isam said:
Interesting that you dont have mcgroarty on there
Absolutely it is. Shows what a hell of a class it is. Felt pretty uneasy leaving him and Seamus Casey off. Who would you leave out for McGroarty?
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17 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:
Sanheim was a -22 last year. He's worse than Quinn. Massive overpayment really...
Lol, yes. +/- is the only stat that matters.
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2 hours ago, hammertime said:
Just my snap judgement opinion from a few viewings. I think Lambert may be over hyped. No doubt he is incredibly offensively gifted but his play without the puck gives me fits. Hopefully its just immaturity but seems to spend too much time hot doggin IMO.
I've seen a lot of Lambert. U17s, U20s, U18s - he's not perfect, but I think he's in a tier with guys like Stutzle, Barzal, Eklund. Not the biggest on carrying and challenging defenders to the inside but they control the outside so beautifully and can break down coverages. This is why any line Barzal is on dominates the league in corsi and generating chances every year. It's what guys like Jean-Luc Foudy and Samu Tuomaala try to do but I'm not sure they have the same level of hockey IQ or creativity.
As with those guys I don't see him as a monster offensive star, but probably a safe bet to be a regular 70-90 point guy.
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Alright, well we hadn’t done any official statement since taking over the team. Now would be the time. Had a lot of work to do, and this trade last night was the centerpiece in building the team we want going forward. We don’t expect to be making many more moves anytime in the near to mid-term future.
Firstly, immeasurable, incalculable props to my director of pro scouting, Josh, who will soon be officially moving into the AGM position. Just a hockey savant. He’s my secret weapon.
Major props also to the previous manager(s?) of this organization, who left us in an under-ratedly strong position. We were a little concerned at first about the dearth of quantity in the cupboard, but there were some low-key high-quality pieces in Durzi, Walsh, Chmelevski, and then Mitchell, Walker and Thompson already on the roster.
But the most glaring feature was a small core of very high end players aged 23-25 – Barkov, DeBrincat, Vrana, Blackwood. We decided the best strategy would be to expedite the rebuild process and surround that core with quality players on reasonable contracts to try to set up as long a window of contention as possible while the core is in their primes and still on manageable contracts. We think we've taken major steps toward that with the additions of Severson, Fabbro, Backstrom, Foligno, and especially with this latest trade, adding three really good players on exceptional contracts. We've also went a long way in addressing the depth of the prospect cupboard, adding 11 prospects at and around the draft.
Props also to Down By The River for thoughtful, systematic negotiations over the past couple weeks, and for being willing to listen even when it seemed like we were worlds apart. Josh was the one with the initial vision behind this trade; he identified the framework for a perfect fit that wasn’t readily apparent, even if it needed a lot of fleshing out. Bjorkstrand and Toews were both very high on our list of potential trade targets and we are ecstatic about adding both. Losing Tyson Foerster was painful, but the earlier addition of Roby Jarventie made us more comfortable moving him.
Now to the fun part - our lineup going into this season, and likely the vast majority of our lineup for the next couple years:
Bjorkstrand – Barkov – DeBrincat
Vrana – Backstrom – Brown
Gusev (fingers crossed) – Foligno – Thompson
Gagner – Lazar – Vesey
Leivo
Toews – Severson
Edmundson – Walker
Kukan – Fabbro
Benn – Mitchell
Blackwood
Smith
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Franchise altering and defining trade just completed for the Sharks.
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Alright, I've been watching video from Hlinkas and some older clips, and I'm gonna try a list. Going mostly off what I've seen myself:
1. Shane Wright
2. Ivan Miroshnichenko
3. Brad Lambert
4. Frank Nazar
5. Danila Yurov
6. Matthew Savoie
7. Tristan Luneau
8. Simon Nemec
9. Juraj Slafkovsky
10. Elias Salomonsson
A few notes: at 5'9, it seems unlikely Nazar actually goes this high, but right now he's the most electrifying offensive talent in the draft, so we'll see where it goes. A year ago, I thought Yurov was a really smart, sturdy, pro-style player without much upside, but late in the season he started flashing some high end stick skills. Kid is getting slept on hard so far.
Of the three D I listed, I think Salomonsson has the most offensive upside, but he's an August 31 birthday and is a lot more raw than those other two. Nemec is the safest, most complete, pro-style defenseman, but I'm not sure what the upside is right now. Luneau falls somewhere in between - he's a transition machine, but not the wizard in the offensive zone that Salomonsson can be.
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Vasily Podkolzin | #92 | RW
in Prospects / Farm Team
Posted
I like the Brady Tkachuk comparison, but I suspect less nastiness and better scoring touch. I keep thinking of Glen Murray for some reason.