TOMapleLaughs
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Posts posted by TOMapleLaughs
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Is Bob your only valid source for rankings or something? Not sure why. The other ones like CSS and ISS are no less worthy.McKenzie has him at #8.
I don't think any of Virtanen, Ehlers, Ritchie, or Nylander are wild cards at 6, they are very much in the same class & have shown to be interchangeable in many rankings.
Yeah no one is saying he's as good as Drouin, Drouin is one of the better offensive prospects to come along in some time, though Ehlers is bigger than Drouin I will say that.
We will have to agree to disagree on Ehlers I don't see many of the same things you see. I think the "cheating" thing is just partially because he just gets around so quickly, yeah he's an offensive player so there are times where he's going to push for the offense (and he is a winger) but he does have a two-way game thats not a concern of mine. And I don't have the doubts about his game translating because of how dynamic he is.
I don't think Virtanen's skating is as good as Ehlers. He's a great skater, really fast, its not a knock on Virtanen, I just think Ehlers is one of the best skaters to come along in awhile as far as speed.
Virtanen isn't the tallest guy but he's got a great build, and his speed is impressive for being as stocky as he is. I kinda of am opposite to you on the boards/wrap around thing, with his power I wish he wouldn't play the perimeter game so much. Whenever he enters the zone he's looking to shoot off the rush & if thats not there he goes outside & around the perimeter kind of like Raymond used to. (not comparing them as players, just thats a similarity in their game). If he was better at that, and better at making plays he would be my #1 choice probably. If those things can be corrected he could be a really great player. But you can't really teach hockey sense.
I think he will score goals in the NHL, like 20-30 goals seasons regularly, but I don't think he will have high point totals.
Eh Tarasenko isn't the greatest comparable, he probably compares more to Virtanen than Ehlers, Or a cross between both.
I see what your saying, no one carries a team in playoffs aside from goalies, you get performences here or there where a guy steps up & goes on a stretch of play. But its a team effort to get the goals & the wins as we see with teams like Boston & Anaheim. Though those teams have a variety of players both the PWF's like Ritchie & the high offensive players like Ehlers, along with alot of other things of course.
I'd agree that the top-5 seems to be set, and that's why we're bickering about the rest of the #6 potentials out of boredom. I think Ehlers and Nylander have potential to fall to a more reasonable ranking because of size concerns though.
A lot of those meaningless HF comments you posted mocked Drouin for some reason. But yeah, nobody should be saying that Ehlers is as talented. B ut Ehlers is bigger than Drouin? How? Drouin weighs up to 25lbs more at the moment. He also looks a lot more balanced on his skates. Not as easily knocked over.
If Ehlers has a two-way game I haven't seen it. What I have seen is that he is almost never involved in scrums on the boards, constantly waits for the puck to squirt free and floats around in open ice. Sometimes he pressures the puck carrier in open play, but that's about it. What exactly have you seen to discredit what I've seen?
I think he'll translate his one-dimensional game more effectively on a team that is already stacked with solid two-way players. Re: Gaborik in LA, Kane in Chicago. Both are more skilled and balanced though. Ehlers is not a guy who'll you'll want to depend on to carry a line, let lone team. There are risks in his development and things missing in his all-around game, so his 13th ranking is pretty fair I think.
Virtanen's skating is very good. It's his balance that sets him above Ehlers, rather than his top flight speed, which is still breakaway-level. Speed without balance isn't all that great.
You're confusing his play on the boards as being perimeter when he's actually battling for the puck. He can win those battles where Ehlers cannot. He's also initiating contact where Ehlers will not. Different type of player entirely, and imho more NHL transferable. This is the 'right way to play' that has become an overused phrase in hockey media. Not ducking away from physical play.
Yes, Virtanen is a shooter more than a playmaker, no doubt, but his playmaking isn't all that flawed. He knows what to do in traffic, he's able to do more in traffic and he's more able to create turnovers, which is more useful than button-hooking at the first sign of pressure, leading to a telegraphed turnover pass attempt. There's more to Ehlers' game that reminds me of Raymond than Virtanen's certainly. ie. Ehlers falls down a lot and is a physical no-factor.
If Virtanen is a potential regular 20-30 goal scorer and is a physical force who's willing to battle and play defensively without floating around, then you can see why he's ranked 6th overall in this draft. These players are generally more useful than non-physical, non-elite playmaking wingers in today's NHL.
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I concur that Ehlers was noticable in that game. Largely because he was always cheating to the open areas of the ice. This is how he has to play to be effective. Does this style translate to the NHL? Doubtful, unless the team is so stacked that they can afford to have a guy float around all the time. In traffic you also noticed how easy he was to brush off the puck. This isn't subjective, this is what actually happened. He needs to build strength.I didn't think you would re-watch, gotta definitely give you tons of credit there TOML.
I was just really interested to hear your thoughts, cause what I saw & the other reports I have seen from others didn't match what you were saying. Even in regards to Drouin.
I'll post some of them here for you:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=83662111&postcount=778
This was in response to the above post:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=83662175&postcount=779
Seems to be a disconnect between your report, and these reports (Which I agree with from watching it myself). Do you agree with these assessments.
I know where you stand, and its fine if you like other guys instead of him, I don't don't see what certain rankings have to do with anything or why people need to cut down Ehlers. But we all have different opinions on who we like over another player. So that perfectly fine.
Perhaps you aren't watching with an objective eye. (Just a theory in why what you have been saying doesn't match up the majority of reports on Ehlers, not intended to be an attack) but that's your prerogative.
I know you like Virtanen, he's a good player for sure, could be a big time goal scorer. Capable of 25-30+ goal seasons, and he's got a nice physical edge. Certainly a valuable player to have.
Watching the entire series you can easily tell that Ehlers is a notch below Drouin in terms of skill. I'm not sure how anyone can doubt this, but if you want to focus on a few shifts, of course you can come up with a case for Ehlers being somehow better. Probably better to watch more than a few shifts to make a judgement though.
I think Ehlers has some good potential due to his speed, but it should be interesting to see whether his speed-only game translates. We've seen plenty of quick but small prospects like Filatov and Brule being crushed on hits right away, so I think a team that drafts Ehlers should be far more patient with him than Columbus was with theirs. Ehlers' NHL future may depend entirely on the team who selects him. I think it should be a team out east. Perhaps Tallon is willing to roll the dice on the speed? He waived Grabner though.
Thing I noticed about Virtanen is that he's able to use his comparable speed in heavy traffic, at times bulling his way through defenders up the boards and scoring on tight wrap-arounds instead of swinging wide. He's a far more balanced skater than Ehlers. Something to consider if you're drooling over the speed aspect of available prospects.
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He's not much of a wildcard at 6th if he's ranked 6th.Traitor..... Just kidding. I like Ehlers too but Id be happier with Ritchie. Virtanen might still be a wild card to get picked 6th though , I wouldnt rule out the Canucks taking him.
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I think i'm pretty certain on where you stand, Kass.You didn't answer my question.
I would like to hear your thoughts on how Ehlers played in game 1 since you claim to have "extensively watched".
Rankings are opinion, I have Virtanen at 11 myself & Perlini in the 20s, some have them alot higher. I don't really put rankings from one source head & shoulders above the others, especially sources like ISS & CSS. Although Bob McKenzie's rankings I will admit I put more stock into than others.
I guess the disconnect here is I don't see the "size issue" because he's game is so superiorly developed in other areas that, combined with his character (basically we know he is going to work his hardest to bulk up) its not really much of a concern for me.
There are definitely other prospects to consider, but there's no need to chop Ehlers down to build them up. Virtanen looks like he could be a very good goal scorer, Ritchie having a complete offensive game with PWF attributes, Fleury with two-way, top pairing potential with an offensive flare, exc.
Anyways back to my question, I would like to hear your informed opinion on how Ehlers performed in just game 1.
fyi I did watch the entire series and written the down common trends that I saw with him. But since you asked I even re-watched game 1 for you to see if I missed anything to counter my first watching. And my conclusions remain unchanged.
First off, he IS fast. He IS skilled. There is no doubt. But clearly not as skilled or with as much hockey IQ as Drouin.
In game one he scored a goal on a two on one in which he darted off the bench and capitalized on a glorious opportunity.
He looked good in flashes. You can see the skill and the speed. Sometimes trying too hard to do it all, like the time he lost the puck on a nothing play, turned it over and that led to a breakaway and penalty shot against. But overall he looks really good when there's nobody around him. In traffic though he's easily knocked over and he has to button-hook a lot under pressure. Not the most balanced player i've seen. He seems to lack that extra dangle that gets him through the traffic. The shiftiness. And he stays on the perimeter a lot and rarely does he battle for the puck. This is all noted from game 1. Maybe it's there at times though. Against weaker opponents?
His play without the puck leaves a lot to be desired. He coasts back into the d-zone like it's a Sunday skate often. He disregards the play and looks for open ice very often (but this will have to be the way he plays to be successful, so not a real knock). And he's a physical non-factor. No battle level or intensity to speak of. This may arrive with time, but if it's not there in a late playoff round...
Ehlers at this point looks very fast, pretty decently skilled and has tremendous potential to be an offensive Nhl player. He is worthy of a early-mid-first round pick in this years' entry draft like scouts think. He needs to work on his strength, size and defensive play to become a good pro.
I think i've been more than fair here. He's been ranked fairly. There's no need to come up with over-the-top expectations for the kid based on what I've seen. There are better, more skilled prospects who don't possess an entirely one-dimensional style or a size problem.
All just an opinion on what I've seen though. Has no bearing on anything and I wish him well. Just wanted to see if all this hype is worth it.
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I'll always love EOTM, but you're growing on me Ossi. Lol.On a scale from 1 to Game of Thrones, Virtanen is a Jon Snow while Ehlers is definitely a Joffrey. Nylander is probably a Sansa because he looks like a girl.
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Well, there is that. Lol.Why does it matter? Doesn't the NHL decide what picks go where anyways.
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I want McDavid/Eichel too.I don`t believe neither of those two (Ritchie & Virtanen) has the hockey sense and IQ as their game seems darn one dimensional (i don`t like using that term but Virtanens' an one trick pony.
what i meant was: many people think drafting with size is #1 priority.. i want a blend of both IQ + skill. that's the reason why Reinhart & Bennett are up there in the rankings. They're not "dynamic" like McDavid /Eichel in any way.
those comparisons are the worse case scenarios. welsh is known for his great skating with that size and shot. of course. i admit i messed up on the Welsh comparison. Lupul/Kreider ... heard attitude/consistency is an issue
Next year.
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All the 'trolls' have been saying is that there are other prospects to consider. Ehlers isn't even a consensus number one.There are a couple of guys on here who continue to spin and use hyperbole to argue with people who support Ehlers. They are not being objective in any way.
Its like us saying virtanen's numbers are not mind blowing in any way , nor is his low hockey IQ an asset come draft time.
Or Ritchie will lumber around like a big fat ox and has no other skill that can translate at the NHL level other than lumbering around the ice. His totals were not mind blowing either for a guy that size in his draft year.
We could start arguing and spinning the negative all day about other prospects but we dont need to. Ehlers is an excellent draft pick on his own accord.
We dont require everyone else to feel that way.
The trolls do require that they shove their biased opinions down our throat. That is a big difference.
Imagine if we were in a position to draft McDavid or Eichel next season? THAT may be worth a 1,000 post thread. But this thread = We're very bored.
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Just watched him play a lot. He definitely cheats up the ice often and is slow on the backcheck often. No he's not the first junior top-level prospect to do so, but it has been noted.turnover the puck? do you have his corsi and fenwick numbers?
backcheck? he's a plus 65
A PLUS 65
I am sorry but keep trying to bash a player and then pretend you're being objective.
You watched him hey? but you make up points without stats to back it up
Floater and yet he's a plus 65, thats not a plus 6 man its 65!
Not sure if plus minus is the best number to use to say otherwise.
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This is my review again, in case you missed it:He doesn't, what in his game is a weakness? High end passing, high end shooting, best skating ability in the draft, very high hockey IQ, gritty, goes to the dirty areas, he's tough, he has a two-way game.
Size is not a weakness in his game, its not his fault he's not 6'3 220, he just has to adapt his game to his size & he's done a remarkable job of doing so thus-far And the size is totally over blown as an issue anyways.
Plenty of bull in this post here aswell ^^
Anyways I've very interested to know,
If thats the case, then what did you think of Ehlers performance in game 1?
This, again was based on one series against top peer competition. If he looks better against weaker competition, so be it.Thanks. I've taken the time to watch the last series they were in to verify a few things.
First off, Drouin is noticably more talented than Ehlers. No question. He drives his teams' offense. When down by one late in the final games' final minute, it was Drouin directing the attack, managing to create several chances to score, while Ehlers managed no shots, one fall-down and a turnover. This critical time is a good indicator of play, esp. for a player with supposed star potential imho.
Second, Ehlers is a perimeter player. Even on the power play they had him on the point to avoid traffic. He needs open ice because he gets dumped easily in traffic. When he finds open ice he is successful.
Third, kinda said this already, but Ehlers is soft and one-dimensional. Easily brushed off on the boards and isn't a factor without the puck.
And lastly, he's a floater. Constantly waiting in open ice for the workers on the team to do their thing.
Overall, his style reminds me of Raymond, with a Filatov entitlement thrown in. But this was the last series in which they were eliminated. Maybe his star potential shows a bit more in less meaningful games against lighter competition.
Thanks again for allowing me to confirm my analysis.
Yes, his size is not his fault, but I believe NHL.com has him ranked at 13th irregardless of his size anyway. Not 6th. I think other prospects need to be considered, as they're all very skilled in their own right. And a lot don't have the size issue. For Ehlers to be worth the size risk and the risk of him playing a fairly one-dimensional style, I think his NHL ranking needed to be quite high.
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Going to agree with ForsbergTheGreat here in that you should look into more than just the numbers. If numbers were the end-all, he'd be drafted instead of Raymond.really? can you please inform the crowd here how may points Giroux put up in his rookie year in the q and subsequent years his size and weight at draft year
and then can you tell me the same for Ehlers?
Thanks
Oh here I'll help you
Giroux
2005-2006 69 GP, 39 goals, 64 assists, 103 pts
2006-2007 63 GP, 48 goals, 64 assists, 112 pts
5'11 172 CURRENTLY
Ehlers
2013-2014 63 GP, 49 goals, 55 assists, 104 pts
5'11 176 CURRENTLY (according to our friend above who called the Mooseheads)
Yes you are right, he is no where near as talented as Giroux
WOW
Same league, same size, same points
but ya no where near as talented
Please dont go into any career where logic matters.
and 31st time, OUR PROSPECT POOL HAS BIG GUYS FOR HIM TO PLAY WITH IF THAT'S YOUR ISSUE
again!!!this kid (whomever we draft) wont be ready for 3-4 years not step in now and solve our current issues
so therefore look at the size of our prospect pool and evaluate what its needs are not todays!!!!
geez
I actually don't care who people 'want' to be honest, just tired of seeing people troll with misinformation and hyperbole to support their views of who they want vs being objective.
its alright to say hey i've seen ritchie play and like him and would prefer the nucks draft him, that doesn't mean or logically follow that Ehlers is not an elite talent, it means you prefer the nucks build their team in a different manner than I, this is fine.
But so many here are arguing he's not talented, he's steve kariya, he's soft lol...really all they are doing is trolling
Ehlers is a first rounder in an NHL entry draft. Nobody is saying that he's not skilled. I'm just agreeing with the 13th ranking instead of taking him too early at 6th because, yes, there are other prospects to consider. It's okay to look at other guys and see their skill as well. All first rounders generally have it. And a lot of them don't have the size issue to consider.
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Rather than massaging the numbers to whatever argument you want to make, I thought it made a lot of sense to watch the guy actually play. And thanks to Smash's link, I was able to watch Ehlers extensively throughout the Mooseheads' last series. This viewing all but confirmed my thoughts on him.I also forgot to add another fun fact about Ehlers and Drouin.
The guys who want Ritchie also spun the non disprovable hyperbole about Ehlers playing with Drouin. Its difficult to disprove because how do you know the exact powerplay time or when you are behind late in a game you load up or what not. How much time is that together ?
Its not a lot . The team was so stacked they didnt need to 'load up' as they won quite a bit. The amount of time they would need to do this is negligible. The power play numbers i would attribute both of them to helping each other. So its reasonable to assume Ehlers had help from Drouin and vice versa.
To solve this, the Ehlers supporters just gave the doubters their way and looked for how Ehlers did without Drouin at all. Ehlers played 17 games this year without Drouin.
He got 25 points in 17 games without him. Its not a full season but a fair chuck. Large enough to form an opinion.
That translates into 93 points in 64 games. I have looked to see if Voracek had anyone else to play with and he had the same garden variety team as Ehlers did without Drouin. Not even a second round pick to play with.
So at the same age and same team mates Ehlers outscored Voracek 93 to 86.
As for his size, I went to NHL.com and even though the draft ranking are from March and therefore out of date, the bizarre thing is it has Ehlers at the 176 like I was informed, but only 5ft 10 ???? Nobody else has that . Not the scouts or anyone.
So I went to the moosehead site where they would know a lot more than anyone else and it lists him as 5ft 11 but only 162 pounds which I attest to measuring him at age 17 right after he got off the plane from Denmark.
So I went to the unusual extent to actually contact the Mooseheads directly . I talked to a guy in Halifax about this and he stated Ehlers is now 5ft 11.5 and 176 pounds. How he knew this to that kind of exact measure I have no idea.
He is a notch below Drouin in terms of skill, without a doubt. This is fine. This was expected. Drouin was a top-3 pick the year prior. Ehlers is ranked 13th in a softer draft now.
But the question is Ehlers skilled enough to be considered top-6 in this draft regardless of what scouts think? I saw flashes of skill and speed definitely, but more often I saw him being nullified on the boards, floating up ice too often, and turning over the puck too much. He's nicest-looking on the powerplay, where he has more room, and that will be the norm for him immediately. That's fine again. But I think the 13th overall ranking is fair.
I think we have to consider that there are indeed better players available at 6th overall for us. Certainly ones without the weight risk. Certainly ones who backcheck a bit harder, don't turn over the puck as often, or even hit guys the odd time. Ehlers' skill isn't quite at the level where we can simply overlook all those factors.
I think we should just trust the scouts.
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He's plainly not at Sakic's or Giroux's talent-level either, from what I've seen. But if we're talking about the career progression of Giroux, it should be noted that he plays in perhaps the friendliest environment for him to have success. Philly plays that wide-open style. They have big guys for him to play with. etc.crosby also played at shattuck st mary's growing up (a hockey factory) and this was ehlers first year in a new country and smaller rinks and he was simply a year older
and i was not comparing him to the level of talent of croby, the point AGAIN is that his talent is elite and the only reason he is lower in the rankings is because of the size bias of nhl scouts.
again please review my points on sakic and giroux and try to comprehend them
thanks
I mean Ehlers will never be Giroux, but he should perhaps go to a team in the east that will play an appropiate style for him to succeed in. Like Grabner and post-injury Raymond.
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Oh, I mean Absent constantly telling us that he did blah blah blah at age 17, when he's actually 18. Not a big deal, but I wish the whole story would be posted now and then by the guys.He was a mid '96.
What do you mean?
He's average in that regard.
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Crosby did it at age 16 though. Perhaps if Ehlers was 16, or even 17, he'd be more worthy of the hype.and im sorry but anyone trying to claim a kid in the Q in his rookie year, and only kid since crosby to score as many points as a rookie does not have elite skill has never played hockey
that is not luck, that is not being a beneficiary of other players (Drouin, who he doesn't play with regularly other than PP), its very easy to dismiss players as people here do so they can support their own views. As one poster mentioned be objective and look at what the kid could bring vs trying to suggest he doesn't have talent when all indications are clearly he does.
The fact that Ehlers has elite skill cannot be argued, he has already proven it at the junior level, his point totals. People can argue that all they want but its a fact.
A 13th ranking is fair for what he's done. There are other prospects to consider.
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I'm basing my post on watching the entire final series the Mooseheads were in and focusing on Ehlers. If he played better in less important games or against weaker competition, then so be it. I feel that it is important to see what he'll do against his top peer group in the Q. Because if he's worthy of a top-6 pick as an offense-only force, he'll need to show it at that level.interesting comments since many of the scouting reports i have read have said he is more than willing to play in traffic and in fact initiate contact to gain possession.
he is not a 'perimeter player'
many on cdc are scared this kid is MayRay part two, and ya I get it, post traumatic stress disorder does things to people.
he's not MayRay part 2
the other issue people keep harping on is size and this is now the 30th time i have said it
1. The CURRENT issue on our team is lack of offensive talent that can skate and has size
2. This years draft will not address a CURRENT issue, it will address FUTURE issues, since this years first rounder will likely take 3-4 years to make it to the NHL, unless somehow we get Ekblad
3. Therefore, a logical conclusion is you look at our prospect pool and see what is lacking.
4. In our prospect pool, size is not lacking, players who can battle through and have the size to protect pucks win board battles etc (Kassian, Horvat, Jensen, Matthias, Guance, Archibald, Grenier, Lane, Cassells is gritty enough as is Fox).
5. What is clearly lacking in that group is not size it is elite talent. You may argue and fair enough its your view, that Ehlers doesn't have elite talent, I beg to differ given what I have seen of him play, his scouting reports and his point totals), he certainly has much higher point totals than any of the said prospects above have achieved, even after adjusting for league differentials - and by a wide margin, this not something you can simply dismiss.
6. He is the same size as Markus Naslund, Yzerman, Sakic, Giroux, on and on. If the kid played a permiter game and was scared to go to the net, sure I'd buy the arguments, but he's not. That in combination with the size in our prospect pool therefore becomes a non issue.
7. 2 way players with size are very easily found in the second and third rounds, projects so to speak, and many second / third rounders have turned out well. Jamie Benn was taken in the second round.
8. One seldom gets a chance at elite skill unless you're Edmonton or Florida, don't waste that pick on something we have as much of a chance of developing in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
9. Players like Ehlers are not going to be found late in the first / second/ third very often, players with size who can put up 20 goals and maybe break through like Benn are.
The first thing I noticed was that Jonathan Drouin, not Ehlers, was the offensive force on the Mooseheads. At least in that series. Ehlers' skill was not at that level.
Ehlers showed a lot of perimeter play and floating when I watched him extensively. He cheated up the ice a lot and on the power play he was used on the point. Typically he's on the right boards, but I suppose against better competition in this series it wasn't working.
Honestly I see a lot of Raymond's style in Ehlers' game. Ehlers may be more skilled, but both need wide-open ice to succeed. And we all know that won't be there in playoff games.
1. Jake Virtanen has tremendous offensive talent, a-rated skating and size.
2. You draft for the future? You don't say...
3. We lack right-shooting forwards and left-shooting defensemen in our prospect pool. Ehlers shoots left. Virtanen right. Fleury is an option on defense, but only if we trade down.
4. Size is not lacking, but size with speed and skill is. Virtanen's speed and offensive skill beats out our best offensive prospects', esp. with Shinkaruk down with a major hip injury.
5. Ehlers is a notch down from Drouin, so if he's not on par with Drouin, who's a notch down from MacKinnon, then how is Ehlers' skill elite?
6. He was 162lbs 3wks ago according to NHL.com. It's possible he puts on weight, but I don't think that will change the type of player he'll be.
7. Jamie Benn was taken in the 5th round, and no, that kind of luck is not typical. All successful NHLers these days are capable of some sortof defensive play. Wasn't going to mention this until now, but Ehlers showed me nothing in terms of defensive play when I watched him extensively. In fact he turned over the puck too much for my liking. Esp. at a key moment at the end of the series down a goal. Fell down. Turned over puck. Attempted pass in traffic, turned it over again. It happens, but truly elite guys make something special happen in these moments instead. Drouin didn't get it done either, but at least he generated 3-4 decent scoring chances.
8. I think it's important to weigh in all factors. Skill alone, esp. if it's not elite, isn't enough to make it in the NHL.
9. Digging deep into euro leagues for golden nugget skill guys is exactly how we landed Pavel Bure, who was picked in the 6th round. This isn't typical, but it's not impossible. Why take a big gamble at 6th overall? Ehlers is ranked 13th and that's fair, imho.
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The fully story never seems to arrive in these posts.None of this advances the narrative they want to put forward so it will be utterly ignored.
Also, Ehlers played on a separate line than Drouin but that is also systematically ignored in the attempts to troll.
Another telling stat about Ehlers coming from europe. There is another guy who came from Europe who played one year in the QMJHL for his draft year.
Jacob Voracek came from the Czech Republic but he was only able to put up 86 points. Ehlers put up 104. Voracek was drafted 6th overall I do believe.
NHL.com now has Ehlers listed as 176 pounds . Some sites say 5ft 11 , some say 6ft and one says 5ft 11 1/2
So 5ft 11 1/2 and 176 as an 18 year old simply is not small. Its big enough.
Ehlers does a lot on the power play. He plays with Drouin on the power play. They also load up often and have played together lots in the playoffs. This is often ignored.
Voracek was 17 when he logged 86pts. He also didn't have the luxury of playing 2nd fiddle to a top-drafted star like Drouin.
NHL.com had him at 162 lbs 3wks ago. It also has him as 5'-10" now, meaning he either shrunk or there's little accuracy and much secrecy involved with the actual numbers leading up to the draft. But if you look using your eyeballs, you'll notice that he's small and he plays small too. Great in open ice, but not quite shifty enough against tight checking for deep in the zone unless he's on the power play. At least that's what I've noticed in that final series the Mooseheads were in, where I watched him extensively.
Oh, NHL.com also ranks him 13th. Not even close to 6th.
I'd be surprised if the Canucks took Ehlers that early. Same with Nylander. It will go against what Linden's been talking about thus far, for starters. Ritchie may be a 'big' option but there's concerns with injuries and intensity.
NHL.com has Jake Virtanen ranked 6th, up from 9th. 6'-0" 199lbs. Perhaps the scouts know something here? Perhaps we should trust the scouts?
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Plenty of "Bull" in this post, Horvat.Same goes for those guys that want size.. we have plenty of size. Especially when our team ain't suited for a LA Kings team.
Size & IQ is another thing. which Ritchie/Virtanen doesn't have.
I rather go with IQ and an improving player than seeing this one guy playing the same game for the next 10 years if he even makes it to the NHL Worse comes to worse, Virtanen = Jeremy Welsh & Nick Ritchie = Tom Wilson
So I'm all for Ehlers/Draistrl/MDC/Kapanen if any of them are available
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"Individual potential is like a glass of water. The size of your glass determines your capacity or the upper limits of what you can achieve in a particular area."
The growth potential of undersized players is always a concern. Most would peak at 180-185lbs, up to 10 years later. So you have to ask yourself if the players' other qualities make this lack of NHL size to be worth a draft selection.
In Ehlers' case, where he is below 170lbs and has a frame that doesn't advertise decent growth potential, you have to hope that his skill is elite for him being worth a 6th overall selection.
But is it?
From what I've watched extensively, it is not. He is at least a notch below Drouin in terms of skill and I'd like him to be above Drouin in terms of skill to make the size risk worth it. To be fair, i'd consider other sources than just my own eyes to value skill, and on that end I don't think there have been any reports that he's just as skilled or more skilled than his star teammate, nor any other comparables from the past like Kane, MacKinnon, etc. That, not his size, is what has him well outside top-5 rankings.
I can only conclude from what I've seen and can project using all info at hand is that Ehlers simply will need wide-open space to be an effective scorer. Since he hasn't shown any other significant attributes, like defense, or being able to sustain checking, at least from what i've seen from him, it means that he'll be a boom or bust one-dimensional scorer with good, but not elite peak ability. This will make him a floater and perimeter-type, esp. in playoff games where it's a lot harder to get to the net unless you have size. Basically, he's not a go-to guy. He'll need great linemates who can provide him the space he needs.
imho He needs to go to a team that will embrace that style and be patient with him while he gets as strong as he can possibly get. Since the Canucks already have their own similar project in Shinkaruk, I see redundancy here. I think Ehlers should go to the east, myself. Jeff Skinner has had some immediate success there.
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Are you high on methamphetamines? Is that your problem?
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I don't get how you see Ehlers not having any real major issues in his game when there are a few that i've seen after watching him extensively. But if you're labelling Virtanen a one-trick pony at the same time, I can see a reason.Still I just disagree that this is an issue & is bound to happen with anyone like Skinner or Ehlers. Who knows Skinner may never suffer another major injury again and continue on to have a great career. Just seems your reaching for something on this one by speculating on future possibilities not a current flaw. But you entitled too its your opinion. I will say though again, these type of things could happen to anyone, not just Ehlers. This isn't solely an Ehlers problem (not even a problem or concern with anyone as I have been saying) these hypothetical could apply to anyone. One dirty Matt Cooke elbow & Ritchie's careers is over. I'm just saying. (knock on wood)
I'm glad you've changed the point a bit from injuries to other things. Yakupov had a pretty good season last year, he's a dynamic offensive player who can score & put up points in a veriaty of ways, not simply a guy who scores by going through everyone. And I think alot of the problems surrounding him (and the Oilers) had to do with coaching, (in his case stemmed from coaching, or the coach could have done a better job with him) which is why the team & he himself took a step back from last season under Kreuger.
Anyways to relay this to the prospects. You talk about going through players, and adjusting. These are the exact reasons that I have concerns with Virtanen, his game is scoring off the rush & doing it himself, the same things you listed as concerns. Ehlers on the other hand isn't simply a player who goes around everyone, he just can because of his superior skating ability & hands. One of the things with him is his smarts & how he positions himself without the puck to create scoring opportunities, along with his playmaking/passing ability, very Dynamic, not a one trick pony offensively like Virtanen kind of its.
I have more concerns with Virtanen's game translating than Ehlers. Which is another reason why I like Ehlers more than the other high skill guy Nylander. I have questions about him, but Ehlers on the other hand I don't see any real major issues in his game that will struggle to translate to the NHL.
It's Drouin that I would get excited about on the Mooseheads. He drives the offense. Ehlers not so much. At least in that final series. Maybe Ehlers looked better in less important games?
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Almost at 1,000 now. Keep it up.
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Saving Mr. Banks 7/10
If you're in for a tearjerker based on true life story related to a beloved children's classic, like Finding Neverland, then this is for you.
Saving Mr. Banks is about the author of Mary Poppins, who Walt Disney tried to buy the movie rights from for 20yrs.
Acting is quite good. Both leads very, very good. Support also good. Story is fairly decent, revealing, but a bit easy to predict.
Just don't forget the box of tissues. I didn't need them though, except for that dust got into my eye.
Pesky dust.
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Over 900 posts about a junior prospect who isn't affiliated with the Canucks in Canucks Talk.
Going for a record?
Nikolaj Ehlers
in Canucks Talk
Posted
Tanev is a guy we should keep.