Goal:thecup

People seem to think we already have toughness and skill in Kassian so we don't need players like Ritchie. Kassian is only the start. We need players like Ritchie; plural, playerszzz, like Kassian, Richie, Benn, lots of them, and big D too ala Pronger and Chara. We do not want Kassian to have to carry the whole team. In fact, Sestito is necessary right now because we want Kass to play, not sit in the box or get suspended. (And Tommy has enough skill to hold that 4th line enforcer job very well, imo and contrary to what many others say.) We want a team where almost every guy can take the heat and stay in the kitchen. The team should only have to carry one or two little demons max (In the future (yes, I can imagine a future), Shinkaruk and Subban maybe). If anything, we have enough small guys and need to make sure we have enough big talent in the pipeline. If we do not trade our little prospects like Schroeder, there will be no more room for smurfs. We have to rid the system of under-performing little guys so that we can resume taking chances on little guys.

Try flicking that switch in the top left corner of your post box and then go back and quote someone. (Wouldn't the young Gino look nice on today's roster?)

www.mynhldraft.com is pretty good as well as TSN.

I am not short-sighted nor only looking at size. Ritchie has tremendous skill as well as great size and toughness; that is, in fact, the point. Why take a flyer on some little guy when Ritchie is the complete package? As the minister said, if one of the top 5 drop to us, we should take them, but if not, Ritchie is a fine pick. This 2014 draft is not full of top-end little guys that we should risk our #6 overall on. Once Bennett and Reinhart are gone, the choices for smaller highly-skilled offensive forwards is too risky for that high of a pick. This 2012 draft does however, have some very nice big, fast, tough, and talented forwards right in our wheelhouse. As to your point about the league changing the rules or the way they call them, we are much less likely to be caught by any refereeing change if we are already big and talented. We have always had to beat the refs as well as the other team and I find this unlikely to change. Much as I would like to get the borderline calls to go our way for a change, I do not want to rely on it. Take matters into our own hands and rip the Cup out of Buttman's hands!

Wrong thread but you did mention it, so... I am starting to think we should not sign Stasny. Of course he would fit very nicely on our team but I think the UFA bidding is going to be extreme. I don't think he will sign for your 5 years at $6 million. Look at the money Weber ($14m), Suter ($12m), and Parise ($12m) are getting. Stasny is going to get at least $7m maybe $9m. I think we might be better off saving the cap space so that we can take on big contracts in trades. I realize that we do not have to sacrifice player assets to get him like we would in a trade, but other teams are going to go nuts this year and we might be more able to get what we need if we don't have to exchange similar cap-hits with a trading partner to get a deal done. Plus, a big UFA signing will throw the salary structure on the team right out of whack. You think Kes is dissatisfied now, wait until Stasny is making twice as much as he is! (I know, you think we will trade Kesler and maybe we will, it was just an example of how one big contract might affect the team.)

Well, yeah, if we had more picks, we could take more players. First off, these players have NTCs and we cannot assume that they will waive them. We cannot assume that we are going to get all these draft picks for these players either. If we have more picks, this is a different discussion. If we only have the #6 pick in the first round 2014, we cannot waste it hoping some player is good enough to negate their small stature. We need big help now and in the future. You said yourself that these smaller players would need 2 years or more before being ready for the big club. Ritchie may be able to crack the lineup (albeit in a limited role) as early as this year because of his size/maturity and ability to mix it up. Even if we do not acquire extra and higher picks, our 2nd round pick is 36th and we can still get a good prospect at that level (big defenseman would be my choice).

This ^^^ is right on. This is the new NHL Playoff reality. Get used to it. Players and teams are getting bigger and bigger. And these bigger players can still skate and shoot and score and knock your block off. The playoffs, where you see the same team up to 7 games in a row, are a battle, unlike the regular season where you can get away with little things without having to face the same beast the next night. And the damage is cumulative; there is no time for recovery. Look at the Canucks at the end of the '94 and 2011 Cup runs; they were beat up and broken down. We need to do the beating up and breaking down and we need to stop being the victim. My position is not, as Plum suggested, a knee-jerk reaction to Boston beating us in 2011. I have wanted the big player over the Mason Raymond player for over 50 years of watching hockey. I like Mario over Wayne, Lindros over Gilmour, Jagr over StLouis for example. If Gretz didn't have Semenko and other large dudes protecting him, he would have had a much less successful and a much shorter career. Other posters on here have suggested that those of us who appreciate a big tough talented hockey player/team have had our day and now the Canucks are bigger and tougher and it has not worked post-2011. Well, for one thing, this position is indicative of a very short time-frame suggesting a young poster who has watched hockey for only 5 or 10 years and thinks the team got bigger and tougher after 2011. It has not yet. The new big tough talented Canucks are still in the pipeline and yet to be drafted or traded for. The roster this last season still had the Sedins, Burr, Hansen, Higgins, et cetera, as well as Richardson, Santo, Weber, Tanev etc. There has not been a replacement of the smaller/weaker players with a bigger/tougher roster yet. The plan has not failed; it has not been brought to fruition or even tried yet. We still have to put the players in the pipeline before they can even get on the team. That is why we cannot afford to waste the 2014 #6 overall pick hoping some little fellow is just so very under-rated that his performance will make all the reasons for drafting a big talented player irrelevant. I also believe that this is just a step in the evolution of hockey and that 5 years from now the teams are going to be even bigger. Look at how many players are now about six and a half feet tall and over 220 lbs; there used to only be one or two in the whole league. Old power forwards like Iginla and Brown are dwarfed by the new power forwards like Backes and Benn. Sure, when you put the 2013/14 Canucks up against the Sharks or the Ducks or the Kings they look small and get chased off the ice but just look into the future, the discrepancy is going to get bigger. If we do not make a multi-year commitment to skill-with-size, we are going to look like mice in an old growth forest. There is always room on a team for a super-talented little guy and there always has been. But that little guy has to be protected and that takes a tough team around him. And there is only room for one or two of this type of player on the team, not a half-dozen or more. I know, I am an old dinosaur, still like fighting, and still love a clean open-ice hit. I still believe in the beat 'em in the alley, beat 'em on the ice thing and Ogie Oglethorpe and the Hansen brothers are my favorite players in Slapshot. My favorite Canucks include Harold and Gino and Delorme and Fraser and Kurtenbach and Hunter and Rypien et cetera. We don't need "offensive" little guys, we need offensive big guys like Ritchie who will score and drop the mitts and win fights. There are no loser points for the battle that is the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

If that is what you got out of that, I doubt we are going to agree on much of anything. He is talking about picking 6th, after the top 3 at least have been taken. If Draisaitl or Dal Colle fall to us, we will take them, but if they are gone, Linden is looking at drafting a big strong winger like Ritchie. How you turn that around and assume he's going after one of the smurfs is beyond me. Your "elite talent" is there for Bennett, for example, but more risky on later picks, and we cannot afford the risk. Krikee! Linden is practically drooling over the prospect of a player like Ritchie and you cannot see it!

Thanks to DeNiro, I tracked it down to Global BC: http://globalnews.ca/video/1273886/canucks-pick-6th-at-nhl-2014-draft Near the beginning he talks about drafting #6 this year practically drooling over the big strong wingers available this year, and again, near the end he confirms they want to hold onto the pick and use it. He talks about BPA and about making moves to help the team, but on balance, he says they're gonna keep the pick and use it for a big strong winger.

Got it! Thanks, it was on global. http://globalnews.ca/video/1273886/canucks-pick-6th-at-nhl-2014-draft Linden says they will probably keep and use the #6 pick on a big, strong winger.

Hey DeNiro, do you know where you got that 'Linden said he wants big players' thing from? Absent Canuck asked me for my source when I was saying I heard Linden say something similar (going to draft a big fast winger). I spent an hour or so on Canucks.com, TSN, and Google but couldn't find it. One thing I did find though was in the "Exclusive Fan Q & A With Trevor Linden" video at about 20:20 where he talks about taking the BPA. That doesn't exactly help prove my point! Maybe BPA is more subjective and the best player available to the Canucks is a big fast winger.

Well I went to the first link you put there and it listed him as 5'11" 172! [And I have already looked at all that stuff so please, save your condescension.] We like different things: I like a big team that pounds the snot out of the opposition and wins championships; you like a team of smurfs making the playoffs but lying in a pile crumpled and bleeding and losing when they get beaten in those playoffs. Your straw man about European players does not wash with me. I am Swedish by descent and my favorite Europeans are Scandanavians like Ohlund, Salming, Sundin, and Selanne - all talented with good size (for their time). I also like players like Chara and Jagr - are you starting to get it? Big and talented, regardless of nationality. The only nationality that I would not draft is Russian because of the risk represented by the KHL - you just cannot waste a high draft pick on such uncertainty imo. I am surprised at your high opinion of Plum's ridiculous post and even more surprised that you would let that post do your typing for you. It is full of errors: "Kapenin is not small" 5'11" 172 is small. Ritchie cannot stand up to the competition of big men. Need I go on? Anyway, I often like your posts, and enjoy your willingness to contribute; thanks. But on this one, can't we just agree to disagree and then I am going to call it a night. Cheers.

I think you may have missed my point Smash. I do not think the Canucks should waste the #6 pick on a player like Kapanen (6'180) hoping his talent will overcome his small stature in the modern (6'4" power forward) NHL. I have not seen Kapanen rated higher than 15th, therefore he is riskier than 6 foot players like Bennett who are consistently rated in the top 3 or top 5. If the smaller player is not a sure thing, we cannot afford to take the risk that he will end up not good enough to overcome his small stature (Mason Raymond, Cody Hodgson, Jordan Schroeder). Since Bennett and Reinhart are the only likely smaller players to be sure picks and they are likely to be gone by the number 6 pick, we have to take the safer pick and that pick is safer because it also has modern power forward size. No to any small players except Bennett and Reinhart; no to Kapanen, especially at number 6. If you really have to pick some small player, wait until the pick equals the risk, like later rounds this year or perhaps #16 overall next year. I think Ritchie might be "man enough" to crack the lineup this year in a limited role for a short time with the Sedins for example and more time spent on the 3rd/4th this year. I cannot see Kapanen in the lineup for quite some time and perhaps, like Anton Rodin, he never does play in the NHL. Can't take that risk. These modern day big players are not the Stojanovs or Polaseks of past drafts, they skate very well and have a very high degree of skill.

Time marches on and the power forward like Dustin Brown 5 years ago(6' 207) is more likely to be like Backes today (6'3" 221). The Canucks cannot afford to risk the possibility that this year's draft pick is wasted hoping some small player is so good that his size deficiency becomes irrelevant. This is purported to be a weak draft and, other than the top 3 or top 5, the prospects are rated pell-mell all over the place as if all the pundits threw darts at the board. You don't give up talent for size when you draft a player like Ritchie over a player like Ehlers; you give up talent-you-hope-will-be-exceptional-enough for size. When the small player's talent is undeniable, and therefore no longer as big a risk, the "smaller players" are rated in the top three i.e. Bennett and Reinhart. (Even they are 6 foot and 6 foot one, respectively.) If one or two of the top five slip, take them, otherwise pick a talented power forward like Ritchie.

Sorry Absent, I don't have the time to look it up right now but am pretty sure it was in a video that was up on Canucks.com. Best I can do for now.

I am not blaming Torts for everything. He did some things well and helped "stiffen" the lineup. The problem is that the things he did not do well, like insulting the players publicly and not bothering to learn the players, teams, and systems around the Canucks, are unforgiveable. They are tantamount to dereliction of duty and I do not believe he can change. I believe he might like to, to save his job, but I do not believe he is capable, nor deserving of an opportunity to change. So, what I am saying is, wait until we can interview the candidates and hire a new GM, then fire Torts, then improve the roster and the players in the system.

Thanks for proving my points: 1) resorting to derisive generalizations again 2) repeating your posts like a broken record 3) proving you do not know how management works - the players' exit interviews will decide the coach's fate - Linden will use their input along with many other factors 4) proving you do not understand what others are saying - nowhere did I suggest the players despise Torts - I said Torts does not treat the players with respect 5) proving, once again, that you do not know how management works - you do not "show 3-4 veterans the door before you fire another coach" - you fire the coach as soon as his contract allows and your newly-hired GM and the rest of management agree his time is up - and the trade deadline has passed - and those "3-4 veterans" probably have no-trade-clauses. If you cannot come up with valid points yourself, and cannot even blindly repeat someone else's valid points, at least stop repeating this "cannot fire another coach" nonsense and resorting to calling others names. Torts had a terrible year and is blaming everyone else for it while trying to hide behind vacuous statements such as, "taking full responsibility" himself. His mismanagement and megalomania was clearly displayed, it produced these negative results and has now come back to (hopefully) crush any hope he may have to coach our team again.

He "vould" have? Dreaming of Draisaitl perhaps? Draisaitl-Gaunce-Kassian? Can't wait for prospects camp. [Just kidding around - not poking the bear.]

Resorting to derisive generalizations ("delusional fan boys") that do not accurately portray those of us that want Torts fired, and trite expressions ("broken record") that sound more like a description of your own repetitive and ingenuous posts than anything else, is confirmation that what you "been saying" is not worth reading. The decision at present is whether to keep or fire Torts not AV. Torts proved himself unable to treat the players with respect, especially in public on the bench during the games, and Linden will do well to remember the last time (Keenan and Messier) the team was treated like that. [Linden can hardly forget it. Keenan told Trev to, "Shut the %$&%^ up", took the "C" off his jersey and gave it to Messier (who also took #11 which was a retired number), and traded Linden away. (Even though this was a good trade for the team, it was not what our captain wanted I am sure). Torts also admitted he did not know anything about the other teams and did not care to spend the time to learn; well Anaheim sure did the teaching for him whether he liked it or not. There are only 30 head coaching positions in the NHL; there is no way that flying off the handle all the time in public and abstinence from proper research keeps him in serious contention or ahead of the hundreds of candidates for the job.

Well, if Burkie takes Ritchie, Dal Colle or Draisaitl are each great picks for us. And if the top 5 go to the top 5 teams, we get Ritchie! As Provost was saying, a player like Ritchie is big and tough enough, and a good enough skater, shooter, et cetera, that we could bring him onto the big club this year. For example, Ritchie with the Sedins part time would be ok, a lot like Jensen this year. Other times he could spend learning on the fourth line (such as Sestito, Matthias, and Ritchie) which will get more ice time than last year once Torts is gone. Linden said that they were going to keep and use the pick to get a big, strong, scoring winger and that lets out all the Nylander, Ehlers, types that are too small to fit that description. He said that no matter what happens in the picks before us, we were going to get this type of player. I like Draisaitl a lot but really want a Nealy, Lucic, type player who can bowl you over, score, and then come back and punch your lights out! So if Burke takes Ritchie, fine; but if he doesn't, I sure hope we do. Remember when Nealy started scoring 50 goals a year and he was "too good to fight and spend time in the box"? Too bad it wasn't for us at that point.

I would take Bennett, thank you very much!

I want Richie at #6 but I fear Burke will take him and we will not have a chance. Really, if Burke does this, and another team chooses outside the big five, it is only good news for us. Ok, here's the dream #6 pick: Reinhart. How? Like this: Some team picks Nylander because they think he is as good as some here on CDC say he is. Some team picks Ehlers for the same reason. Burke takes Richie for his toughness with skill. NYI take a goalie like Ville Husso or Thatcher Demko because Snow used to be a goalie and NYI management are a bunch of fruit-cakes. Ekblad goes to the other top five team. We get to pick from Reinhart, Bennett, Draisaitl, Dal Colle.

But then we wouldn't have Kassian. (And we would have slow and short Hodgson clogging up development for all our other young centres.)

+1 Too funny; made my day. Like Elmer Fudd, "Where's that Waskawee Wabbit" or "Where's dat #$^&^#$ Hartley? I gotta get dat guy."

I am hoping that Torts is still hanging around only because of: 1)contract details, or 2)the off-chance that the new GM might be offered the opportunity to make his own decision to keep or fire Tortorella. For example, there may be a buyout opportunity at say, July 1st and the organization is waiting for that. And Linden might not be able to talk to his #1 candidate for the GM job until say, July 1st without suffering tampering penalties so he can't yet get a read on that. There is no way (imo) that Torts has earned another chance nor another place in the organization. There is no way (imo) that Torts will be allowed to continue to disrespect the players, swearing and ranting, and generally going off his nut. His lack of preparation and research into other teams and players speaks of megalomania and is downright negligent in these times of almost unlimited information availability. There are some things within Tortorella's whole schtick that are beneficial to the team like "stiffness", accountability, and team toughness. They are just not enough to outweigh his absolutely horrible public performances, disrespecting individual players especially in public, and his total abstinence of proper research and preparation.