The Official Transit Thread

[ahzdeen]

But this is the rub. We ahve the provincial govt spending billions on new bridges/highways and then saying they have no money for transit. So they aren't providing an alternative. they are providing more of the same. this 'solution' isn't just not the best, it's the same thing! that's no solution at all.

Because increases on transit don't make any sense right now. What, do you want to run more buses through urban neighborhoods? The provincial and federal governments have already put aside money for the evergreen line but Translink can't make the money to build it (ie, they can't collect enough revenues to even cover their own costs). Are the governments supposed to foot that bill to? Might as well make translink part of the government then (and then there will be screaming of indignation when transit decisions are made for political reasons more than they already are now). You make transit attractive and cost effective areas and translink will have no choice but to build it there. As it stand right now, you need the dense housing first (or at least plans for dense housing). Look at the expo line stations. If that's not proof that you can't just build stations and hope density happens, I don't know what is.

[inane]

Because increases on transit don't make any sense right now. What, do you want to run more buses through urban neighborhoods? The provincial and federal governments have already put aside money for the evergreen line but Translink can't make the money to build it (ie, they can't collect enough revenues to even cover their own costs). Are the governments supposed to foot that bill to? Might as well make translink part of the government then (and then there will be screaming of indignation when transit decisions are made for political reasons more than they already are now). You make transit attractive and cost effective areas and translink will have no choice but to build it there. As it stand right now, you need the dense housing first (or at least plans for dense housing). Look at the expo line stations. If that's not proof that you can't just build stations and hope density happens, I don't know what is.

Look at the millenium line, it's got density all over it.

can transit decisions be any more political than they are now? come on....

[ahzdeen]

Look at the millenium line, it's got density all over it.

can transit decisions be any more political than they are now? come on....

Really? Let's start from VCC. Anything? Nope.

Commercial/Broadway is getting denser, but all the residential is still single-detatched housing.

Renfrew? Nothing. There's a McD's, and a couple restaurants there.

Rupert? There's a Superstore and a Ustoreit. Now there's good use of land by a skytrain station. Oh right, the BC liquor storage warehouse is there too.

Gilmore has a huge industrial park beside it. They have, maybe 2(?), apartment buildings around it.

Brentwood's pretty dense if you go down towards Beta or up towards Halifax.

Holdem has 2 apartments, and I think 1 more apartment building is planned, but that' display centre has been there for years already.

Sperling/Burnaby Lake? Nothing there except the dairyland (I think it's diaryland anyway).

Lake city way? Hahaha. That station was only built there because of city hall.

Production doesn't have anything around it except for industrial parks.

Lougheed is getting denser with the new apartment complexes going up behind the mall, but then again, Lougheed was pretty dense to begin with.

So out of all the stations we have maybe 2 dense areas, 1 partial dense area, and the rest are surrounded by industrial parks. Yes, building stations and then waiting for density is working great!

Edited April 9, 2010 by ahzdeen

[inane]

that could be true, i know when i look at the skyline between new west and vancouver there's tons of towers. expo line perhaps? either way, there has been density along skytrain lines. some of those stations were built for things other than residential as well (vcc/sfu/etc)

regardless, the point remains the same. arguing that the decision to build more highways, to solve/help with the issues highways have in part created is mind boggling.

[ronthecivil]

that could be true, i know when i look at the skyline between new west and vancouver there's tons of towers. expo line perhaps? either way, there has been density along skytrain lines. some of those stations were built for things other than residential as well (vcc/sfu/etc)

regardless, the point remains the same. arguing that the decision to build more highways, to solve/help with the issues highways have in part created is mind boggling.

So how should we deal with the largest emerging problem, that being the tremdous existing and rapidly growing trip generation south of fraser, which is predoinantly by single driver vehicle, and is very poorly set up to incorporate transit/walking/biking into any plan?

[ahzdeen]

that could be true, i know when i look at the skyline between new west and vancouver there's tons of towers. expo line perhaps? either way, there has been density along skytrain lines. some of those stations were built for things other than residential as well (vcc/sfu/etc)

Oh, I missed a couple.

Braid - on one side, you have a very busy Brunette ave. On 2 sides, you have a truck dispatch area (I'm assuming, it's fenced off and I just see trucks going in and out of there). And on the other side, a ustoreit! (I'm sensing a pattern here)

Sapperton - All that's there is a brewery and the hospital. Oh, and more single detached housing.

expo line? shall we look at those?

Columbia - in a small complex with a mac's. I hear it's better now, but still no residential housing around.

New Westminster - this area is starting to get dense now. A few apartments have gone up and I think there's new plans for a new dense commercial area around it? There's a lot of apartments in New Westminster but not a lot of them are by the station (now how does that make sense?)

22nd street - I just drove by here the other day because they changed the road to the Alex Fraser and I turned into the wrong lane. This place is just surrounded by single-detached housing. It's also stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Edmonds - this is also starting to get a bit more dense thanks to the middlegate (big boom the past few years). There are a few apartments around the area but they're so spread out, they might as well be single-detached houses.

Royal Oak - if you've been to the area, you know. It's all flat. It's like the suburbs at the edge of burnaby. Lots of car mechanics and sales lots here though.

Metrotown - Yay! Density!

Patterson - Central park on one side, but at least there's a bit of density on the other. I personally like this area, but the skytrain station is sketchy as hell (it's really poorly lit).

Joyce - recently gotten a few apartment buildings with first floor business. Too bad it's only a couple buildings.

29th Ave - They basically built this in the middle of a park. Were they thinking of building density on the park? Surrounded by single-detached housing.

Nanaimo - More of the same. Single-detached housing abounds.

Broadway - talked about it already with commercial. Not enough residential density.

Main - Getting better now, but then again, you're getting awfully close to downtown before the density starts.

Stadium-Waterfront - It's downtown, there better be density there.

Surrey's got it right. Lots of residential and commercial density around their skytrain stations. Scott road would be better if they had a parking structure rather than a big sprawled out parking lot, but at least they have a park 'n ride. What a concept, people take their cars from transit inaccessible areas to areas where they can access public transit.

The funny thing about a lot of the density in Burnaby/New West, it's nowhere near skytrain. Look at the townhouse complexes on Royal Oak. That's about 1.5km away from the nearest skytrain. You say there's tons of towers in Burnaby/Vancouver. This just proves to me that you have no idea what's really going on in this city.

regardless, the point remains the same. arguing that the decision to build more highways, to solve/help with the issues highways have in part created is mind boggling.

Again, you're getting cause and effect confused. Highways are a symptom of poor planning, not the cause of it.

[inane]

you guys are too funny. you harp on one point while ignoring the main argument.

but you know what makes me smile as I read this thread and others like it? I work for a municipal government and am in the business of helping to make the decisions that influence all these things we talk about, you guys aren't. Ain't that great?

have a great weekend!

[ronthecivil]

you guys are too funny. you harp on one point while ignoring the main argument.

but you know what makes me smile as I read this thread and others like it? I work for a municipal government and am in the business of helping to make the decisions that influence all these things we talk about, you guys aren't. Ain't that great?

have a great weekend!

I wish I did have a good weekend. Too bad I will be busy designing more highways lol!

By the way, if anyone is boring enough to listen to this, any idiot can influence the decision makers. Trust me, I know this first hand.

[ahzdeen]

you guys are too funny. you harp on one point while ignoring the main argument.

but you know what makes me smile as I read this thread and others like it? I work for a municipal government and am in the business of helping to make the decisions that influence all these things we talk about, you guys aren't. Ain't that great?

have a great weekend!

great, then how come everything is still crappy?

[Common sense]

Surprised no one jumped on this one...

Bus crashes into Newton Wave Pool

(SURREY) NEWS1130 - A dramatic afternoon at the Newton Wave Pool in Surrey after a TransLink bus crashed into the building..

Angela was selling Girl Guide cookies outside the pool and says it appears the driver lost control after leaving the Newton Bus Loop. "She kept accelerating so I'm not sure, you know, if the driver passed out or if there was a mechanical issue with the bus. Literally around the corner, kept going, and straight into the building."

She says it didn't look like there was anybody on board other than the driver.

9 year old Shea was in the pool when the crash happened. "We heard this big noise and we didn't know what it was, but then we looked and it was this big bus!"

Her mom Sandy says two boys had to dive out of the way when the front of the bus came through the wall, sending dust and debris flying into the pool. "They were very close, but had they been a little closer to the actual point of contact with the bus they could have been hurt. But they jumped! I'm sure they were scared out of their wits."

The veteran driver suffered a broken leg but nobody else was injured.

Engineers spent much of Sunday afternoon assessing damage to building. There is now an investigation into exactly what happened.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/44131--bus-crashes-into-newton-wave-pool

Edited April 12, 2010 by blue.dragon258

[Columbo]

New Westminster - this area is starting to get dense now. A few apartments have gone up and I think there's new plans for a new dense commercial area around it? There's a lot of apartments in New Westminster but not a lot of them are by the station (now how does that make sense?)

The density around New West station is exploding, there's been at least 4 or 5 new apartment buildings constructed within walking distance in the past few years, and now they're building that huge one that's actually connected to the station. And yes, as you mentioned, there are plans for a large commercial area directly attached to it. They're finally getting it right.

[PowerIce]

Does anybody know the Abby transit quite well? Specifically the #1 on weekday mornings?

Nvm, I think I know what to do.

Edited April 14, 2010 by PowerIce

[Buggernut]

Say, whatever happened to the government's ambitious plan to expand Translink's service area to include Abbotsford and Squamish? It's been years already since they announced it, and I haven't heard anything about it since. Did they scrap it?

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

Say, whatever happened to the government's ambitious plan to expand Translink's service area to include Abbotsford and Squamish? It's been years already since they announced it, and I haven't heard anything about it since. Did they scrap it?

That's ridiculous... all the way out to Abbotsford? I guess you would have to buy individual tickets or something.

[Opmac]

That's ridiculous... all the way out to Abbotsford? I guess you would have to buy individual tickets or something.

Probably add a fourth fare zone.

---

$1.75 to ride the bus in Abbotsford.

You would think fares there would cost more out there.

Edited April 14, 2010 by 【Opmac】

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

Probably add a fourth fare zone.

---

$1.75 to ride the bus in Abbotsford.

You would think fares there would cost more out there.

Maybe it actually works. The bus fare was 2 bucks in Moncton. Moncton, for god's sakes, that little sh!thole! Cheaper than this stupid transit system!

[Common sense]

Probably add a fourth fare zone.

---

$1.75 to ride the bus in Abbotsford.

You would think fares there would cost more out there.

Maybe it actually works. The bus fare was 2 bucks in Moncton. Moncton, for god's sakes, that little sh!thole! Cheaper than this stupid transit system!

There's way less things to take care of (ie: roadway, bus maintenance, wages) than here in the GVRD.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

There's way less things to take care of (ie: roadway, bus maintenance, wages) than here in the GVRD.

Tell that to the plow machine guys who are up all night because of 1.30 m of snow on the ground. 1 m of snow on the ground is actually one meter, and 1 m of snowFALL probably adds up to around 30-50 cm. A big portion of municipal taxes end up going to snow removal. Without it, the Maritimes would be like the territories in the winter.

[inane]

http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2010/03/commuting.php

David Brooks, summarizing the current state of happiness research:

The daily activity most injurious to happiness is commuting. According to one study, being married produces a psychic gain equivalent to more than $100,000 a year.

In other words, the best way to make yourself happy is to have a short commute and get married. I'm afraid science can't tell us very much about marriage so let's talk about commuting. A few years ago, the Swiss economists Bruno Frey and Alois Stutzer announced the discovery of a new human foible, which they called "the commuters paradox". They found that, when people are choosing where to live, they consistently underestimate the pain of a long commute. This leads people to mistakenly believe that the big house in the exurbs will make them happier, even though it might force them to drive an additional hour to work.

Of course, as Brooks notes, that time in traffic is torture, and the big house isn't worth it. According to the calculations of Frey and Stutzer, a person with a one-hour commute has to earn 40 percent more money to be as satisfied with life as someone who walks to the office. Another study, led by Daniel Kahneman and the economist Alan Krueger, surveyed nine hundred working women in Texas and found that commuting was, by far, the least pleasurable part of their day.

Why is traffic so unpleasant? One reason is that it's a painful ritual we never get used to - the flow of traffic is inherently unpredictable. As a result, we don't habituate to the suffering of rush hour. (Ironically, if traffic was always bad, and not just usually bad, it would be easier to deal with. So the commutes that really kill us are those rare days when the highways are clear.) As the Harvard psychologist Daniel Gilbert notes, "Driving in traffic is a different kind of hell every day."

But if commuting is so awful, then why are our commutes getting so much longer? (More than 3.5 million Americans spend more than three hours each day traveling to and from work.) In my book, I cite the speculative hypothesis of Ap Dijksterhuis, a psychologist at Radboud University in the Netherlands, who argues that long-distance commuters are victims of a "weighting mistake," a classic decision-making error in which we lose sight of the important variables:

Consider two housing options: a three bedroom apartment that is located in the middle of a city, with a ten minute commute time, or a five bedroom McMansion on the urban outskirts, with a forty-five minute commute. "People will think about this trade-off for a long time," Dijksterhuis says. "And most them will eventually choose the large house. After all, a third bathroom or extra bedroom is very important for when grandma and grandpa come over for Christmas, whereas driving two hours each day is really not that bad." What's interesting, Dijksterhuis says, is that the more time people spend deliberating, the more important that extra space becomes. They'll imagine all sorts of scenarios (a big birthday party, Thanksgiving dinner, another child) that will turn the suburban house into an absolute necessity. The pain of a lengthy commute, meanwhile, will seem less and less significant, at least when compared to the allure of an extra bathroom. But, as Dijksterhuis points out, that reasoning process is exactly backwards: "The additional bathroom is a completely superfluous asset for at least 362 or 363 days each year, whereas a long commute does become a burden after a while."

The same thing happens when we go car shopping. We tend to become fixated on quantifiable variables like horsepower (they're so easy to compare), while discounting factors, such as the cost of maintenance or the comfort of the seats, that will play a much more significant role in our satisfaction with the car over time. I'm always surprised when people brag about variables like torque or the speed with which the car can rocket from 0-60 mph. Who cares? I'd much rather spend 30 minutes testing out the front seat.

Update: Matthew Yglesias argues that the misery of commuting should lead to congestion pricing. I agree.

[aGENT]

Glad I'm only about 25 minutes from my job...lol