The Official Transit Thread

[ronthecivil]

it's supposed to be cut and cover under 10th ave with station entrances on broadway..

If it's cut and cover (which makes sense engineering wise) then fine. But it doesn't make political sense.

If the residents don't want cut and cover they can stick to the buses.

In the mean time feel free to extend the expo line down fraser highway. Elevated is fine. Go ahead and do it in stages as money opens up (even to 152nd would make a big difference.)

[Buggernut]

Come on, man. You know that debate is more complicated than you're painting it out to be.

What more to it is there? That people want a scenic ride on their daily commute?

[Weber's Playoff Beard]

Oh no! One of the four express lines to UBC only runs part of the day!

That's four more Bline type buses than the whole south of fraser. Even the heavily populated areas of Surrey/Langley where our only alternatives are a horrifically slow and rarely occuring set of milk run buses that could get me to work in an hour and a half on a good day or the driving (in ten foot increments for the last few kilometers) over the Port Mann or Alex Fraser, with the former soon to be a lot nicer to drive on but an extra 6 bucks a day (aka 180 a week) on top of the massive gas taxes we pay to subsidise the rest of the region.

There's no need for sarcasm.

I was responding to you who suggested that the express bus run all day. I didn't suggest that, you did.

Obviously we're never going to agree on how Translink should spend their money, but we can agree that Translink has lots of projects and improvements they could be doing if they had the funding. And I rather not start the "how we should fund Translink" debate again.

[silverpig]

Oh no! One of the four express lines to UBC only runs part of the day! That's four more Bline type buses than the whole south of fraser. Even the heavily populated areas of Surrey/Langley where our only alternatives are a horrifically slow and rarely occuring set of milk run buses that could get me to work in an hour and a half on a good day or the driving (in ten foot increments for the last few kilometers) over the Port Mann or Alex Fraser, with the former soon to be a lot nicer to drive on but an extra 6 bucks a day (aka 180 a week) on top of the massive gas taxes we pay to subsidise the rest of the region.

There isn't the same density south of the Fraser. When Surrey densifies more (and in areas other than Surrey Central), it may make sense to extend skytrain. Building more skytrain stations would just give commuters more stations to drive to.

Edited February 7, 2012 by silverpig

[Opmac]

There isn't the same density south of the Fraser. When Surrey densifies more (and in areas other than Surrey Central), it may make sense to extend skytrain. Building more skytrain stations would just give commuters more stations to drive to.

Surrey Central densified because of the SkyTrain. There is little reason/incentive to densify if there's no SkyTrain.

Most (if not) all the areas around the SkyTrain stations densified after it was built.

[Opmac]

There isn't the same density south of the Fraser. When Surrey densifies more (and in areas other than Surrey Central), it may make sense to extend skytrain. Building more skytrain stations would just give commuters more stations to drive to.

Surrey Central densified because of the SkyTrain. There is little reason/incentive to densify if there's no SkyTrain.

Most (if not) all the areas around the SkyTrain stations densified after it was built.

[Columbo]

Oh no! One of the four express lines to UBC only runs part of the day!

That's four more Bline type buses than the whole south of fraser. Even the heavily populated areas of Surrey/Langley where our only alternatives are a horrifically slow and rarely occuring set of milk run buses that could get me to work in an hour and a half on a good day or the driving (in ten foot increments for the last few kilometers) over the Port Mann or Alex Fraser, with the former soon to be a lot nicer to drive on but an extra 6 bucks a day (aka 180 a week) on top of the massive gas taxes we pay to subsidise the rest of the region.

Don't be silly, you don't pay gas taxes based on the region you live in, you pay based on how much you drive. And it follows that if you drive more, you contribute more to the wear and tear of the roads, and you put more pollution in our collective air. You're not subsidizing anyone.

[ronthecivil]

There's no need for sarcasm.

I was responding to you who suggested that the express bus run all day. I didn't suggest that, you did.

Obviously we're never going to agree on how Translink should spend their money, but we can agree that Translink has lots of projects and improvements they could be doing if they had the funding. And I rather not start the "how we should fund Translink" debate again.

The 99 runs all day. During peak hours when the 99 is crowded there are alternatives. It's a hell of a lot better than when I went to UBC (I had to pay full price to get on the 9 or what is now the 17).

You might not want to debate how it should be funded which is fine. I would just as soon the whole south of fraser voted to remove itself from the GVRD and translink!

[ronthecivil]

There isn't the same density south of the Fraser. When Surrey densifies more (and in areas other than Surrey Central), it may make sense to extend skytrain. Building more skytrain stations would just give commuters more stations to drive to.

Granted it's not as dense but Surrey alone is closing in and within probably a decade will surpass the population of Vancouver.

In Vancouver there are three seperate lines. In Surrey there's a stub in the North West corner.

In Vancouver there are multiple Bline routes and frequent service on all major roads. In Surrey there are empty promises of better service (try taking a bus in Surrey once! It's not fun!).

Obvious due to lower density the service will never be as good. All I ask is the tax money that is generated south of the fraser to stay there.

[ronthecivil]

Don't be silly, you don't pay gas taxes based on the region you live in, you pay based on how much you drive. And it follows that if you drive more, you contribute more to the wear and tear of the roads, and you put more pollution in our collective air. You're not subsidizing anyone.

I primarily drive on Surrey, New West, and Burnaby roads. Those are actually paid for through property taxes in those cities. Translink tosses in a pittance to the major roads program once in a while but that amount is insignificant in any event.

I do drive on the highways a bit. That is paid for by provincial highway tax and a soon to be 3 bucks a go toll on the primary crossing.

Translink collects 12 cents a litre (and people buy way more gas and pay way more tax since the alternitives stink even worse than driving which is TERRIBLE!), substantial property tax as well as a hydro levy. This is the money that the ratepayers see fractions of the dollars on going to alternatives to driving.

There is a carbon tax for the pollution as well. Though unless you live in the eastern fraser valley you don't have to actually breath it. Heck, the air flows predomiantly to the east so if anything it's Surrey and Langley that are breathing your stink, not the other way around.

[goalie13]

Is this thread limited to Lower Mainland transit issues?

I live in Williams Lake now and I'm looking into taking transit to work. There are 4 bus routes in WL. The earliest #3 bus (which runs through my neighbourhood) gets me to work for 9:15 and the last run of the day leaves downtown at 4:45.

It's really not the level of service I am used to from other transit systems.

[ronthecivil]

Is this thread limited to Lower Mainland transit issues?

I live in Williams Lake now and I'm looking into taking transit to work. There are 4 bus routes in WL. The earliest #3 bus (which runs through my neighbourhood) gets me to work for 9:15 and the last run of the day leaves downtown at 4:45.

It's really not the level of service I am used to from other transit systems.

Dude, it's William's Lake. Just drive!

Why would you want to take the bus?

[goalie13]

Dude, it's William's Lake. Just drive! Why would you want to take the bus?

Unexpected expenses. My insurance runs out tomorrow and I won't have the cash to get my truck back on the road for three weeks. I didn't think it would be that big a deal until I checked the local bus schedule.

At the same time, I kind of found it amusing reading some of the complaints throughout the thread and then comparing them with my current predicament.

[ronthecivil]

Unexpected expenses. My insurance runs out tomorrow and I won't have the cash to get my truck back on the road for three weeks. I didn't think it would be that big a deal until I checked the local bus schedule.

At the same time, I kind of found it amusing reading some of the complaints throughout the thread and then comparing them with my current predicament.

The entitlement runs strong though the blood of your modern UBC studant!

[inane]

Ron--it's student.

[Opmac]

Something from CPTDB:

They're ordering 28 SkyTrain cars for the Evergreen Line. 28 cars works out to 7.5 trains consisting of two MARK IIs.

The train could look something like this:

Also with the opening of the Evergreen Line, the Millenium Line could cease to exist.

Trains from VCC-Clark will run as "Evergreen Line to Douglas College" and vice versa.

Trains from Waterfront will run as "Expo Line to Lougheed Town Centre" and "Expo Line to King George"

TransLink is considering adding a middle car to it's Mark II trains to match the length of the six-car Mark Is.

---

Do they not have enough trains? Couldn't they do...

VCC-Clark to Waterfront - Millennium Line to Waterfront

Waterfront to VCC-Clark - Millennium Line to VCC-Clark

VCC-Clark to Douglas College - Evergreen Line to Douglas College

Douglas College to VCC-Clark - Evergreen Line to VCC-Clark

Waterfront to King George - Expo Line to King George

King George to Waterfront - Expo Line to Waterfront

And for when the Millennium/Evergreen Line doubles between Lougheed Town Centre and VCC-Clark, announce trains as "Evergreen and Millennium Line train to VCC-Clark". Same goes for Expo and Millennium.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Opmac

[trek]

Do they not have enough trains? Couldn't they do...

VCC-Clark to Waterfront - Millennium Line to Waterfront

Waterfront to VCC-Clark - Millennium Line to VCC-Clark

VCC-Clark to Douglas College - Evergreen Line to Douglas College

Douglas College to VCC-Clark - Evergreen Line to VCC-Clark

Waterfront to King George - Expo Line to King George

King George to Waterfront - Expo Line to Waterfront

And for when the Millennium/Evergreen Line doubles between Lougheed Town Centre and VCC-Clark, announce trains as "Evergreen and Millennium Line train to VCC-Clark". Same goes for Expo and Millennium.

From downtown Waterfront to Broadway should always be Expo line as is the skytrain heritage. Millennium Line starts at Clark drive and goes East into suburbia. This line should remain Millennium line (the way it is today) until it loops back to Columbia station. Let the gimped Evergreen line name be reserved for short run from Lougheed Station on the Millennium line to Douglas.

All imo. (I'm a jaded opponent of the evergreen line).

Edited February 15, 2012 by trek

[silverpig]

Granted it's not as dense but Surrey alone is closing in and within probably a decade will surpass the population of Vancouver.

In Vancouver there are three seperate lines. In Surrey there's a stub in the North West corner.

In Vancouver there are multiple Bline routes and frequent service on all major roads. In Surrey there are empty promises of better service (try taking a bus in Surrey once! It's not fun!).

Obvious due to lower density the service will never be as good. All I ask is the tax money that is generated south of the fraser to stay there.

I lived in North Surrey for ~13 years and in Kerrisdale in Vancouver for 8 years. I took the bus quite a bit in North Surrey, and almost exclusively in Kerrisdale.

Kerrisdale is full of low-rise apartments, with several taller condo towers clustered together, and houses farther out. The main intersection at W. Boulevard and 41st sees a trolley bus line (16), 2 express buses (43 and 480), and a regular bus (41). 41st and W. Boulevard are both 4-lane roads, and have a sidewalk and then storefronts about 8 feet from the road.

Scott Rd and 88th/Nordel on the other hand is WIDE. It's surrounded by strip malls and is entirely unwalkable. When I visit my parents, I have to get in my car to go to the grocery store. If you put 2 express bus lines down Scott Road, no one would use that stop because no one lives there. And that entire strip mall is pretty new.

All over Surrey, they are building strip malls and wider roads. Even Surrey Centre isn't dense yet. Try walking from the mall east to the Toys R Us and the Future Shop (or whatever it has changed to). You are going on a 10 minute walk to get from a business on one side of the street to a business on the other side of the street. In Kerrisdale, you can get from the Sleep Country to the BMO in 10 seconds.

And it's not going to change anytime soon. Surrey will continue to build out before it builds up much more. Most people want a house with a garage and a yard and a car or two and aren't willing to buy a condo instead. Until there's demand from the people there for denser living, they'll continue to build out and build wider roads.

[Buggernut]

Dude, it's William's Lake. Just drive!

Why would you want to take the bus?

Use it or lose it.

He could probably walk from one end of town to the other anyways.

[ronthecivil]

I lived in North Surrey for ~13 years and in Kerrisdale in Vancouver for 8 years. I took the bus quite a bit in North Surrey, and almost exclusively in Kerrisdale.

Kerrisdale is full of low-rise apartments, with several taller condo towers clustered together, and houses farther out. The main intersection at W. Boulevard and 41st sees a trolley bus line (16), 2 express buses (43 and 480), and a regular bus (41). 41st and W. Boulevard are both 4-lane roads, and have a sidewalk and then storefronts about 8 feet from the road.

Scott Rd and 88th/Nordel on the other hand is WIDE. It's surrounded by strip malls and is entirely unwalkable. When I visit my parents, I have to get in my car to go to the grocery store. If you put 2 express bus lines down Scott Road, no one would use that stop because no one lives there. And that entire strip mall is pretty new.

All over Surrey, they are building strip malls and wider roads. Even Surrey Centre isn't dense yet. Try walking from the mall east to the Toys R Us and the Future Shop (or whatever it has changed to). You are going on a 10 minute walk to get from a business on one side of the street to a business on the other side of the street. In Kerrisdale, you can get from the Sleep Country to the BMO in 10 seconds.

And it's not going to change anytime soon. Surrey will continue to build out before it builds up much more. Most people want a house with a garage and a yard and a car or two and aren't willing to buy a condo instead. Until there's demand from the people there for denser living, they'll continue to build out and build wider roads.

I still don't care. If your going to give us less service based on less density then charge less for our property and gas taxes then?

If that's not going to happen then give us value for our tax dollars. Instead of saying why NOT to provide transit how about thinking about what might work. May I suggest Bline buses down King George and Fraser highway so that there's a hint of regionalism in the system?

If not I have no idea why south of fraser people would stay in the translink fold as it's a one way flow of tax dollars north. (With tolls and craziness as the only alternatives, coming soon!)