uber_pwnzor Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 and then you give them prizes named for the inventor of dynamite, Alfred Nobel... genius Yeah... At least we've got free education... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offensive Threat Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why didn't we purchase these instead of the F-35's? Oh right we are obligated to buy from the Americans. We enjoy the ever present security of the worlds biggest and best military next door to us so we can spend peanuts in comparison on our military. A minor token of purchasing their planes and keeping them happy in that role should be considered important to every Canadian so yes, we are obligated to buy from them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 We enjoy the ever present security of the worlds biggest and best military next door to us so we can spend peanuts in comparison on our military. A minor token of purchasing their planes and keeping them happy in that role should be considered important to every Canadian so yes, we are obligated to buy from them.. This is true in a sense but completely wrong. Due to NORAD and the NAFTA agreement, plus UN conventions we are obligated to source to the US first. Not obligated but sourced. The main issue is that some of the largest procurements in canadian history have been pushed forward without thought by the Conservative governments and subsequently cancelled or amended by later Liberal governments ending in a he said she said match of who wasted how much money where. See the Sikorsky purchase by Mulroney which had to be cancelled by Chretien and then re-written and then ignored and revamped and re-written again costing us tax payers billions. The F-35 was not sourced at all it was basically handed over to the F-35 project without thought by the Conservative government. We had and have many options available. The Super Hornet being one of them, which we'd be able to almost double the order amount with for the same cost. Benefit being we already run the hornet interceptor so minimal training and maintenance training issues We could have had the Hornet, the Gripen or any numerous other models or again even embarked on our own building program but didn't. our government botched this horribly and then lied to us about it. Shame our best and bravest suffer for political points and friends in high places with lobbyists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 comments from the internet: "Good job NSA you cost this country a billion dollar plus program with your idiotic spying on everyone idea. I'm surprised you didn't see this coming" "Brazil has a history of chosing cost over quality...ie Mirage from France..We use them for target practice for our missle systems. Zero stealth abilities, huge radar reflections, poor support from a 35 hour per week workforce at a 80 hour cost..." "I guess the Brazilians didn't want an aircraft that leaked fuel all the time (F/A-18). The Gripen is mean donkey" "Sweden is known for its safe cars and brazil probably wants safety first" "Another sad case of quantity over quality. The Gripen is the worst fighter jet on the market today yet Brazil chose to buy something less than the best. I wish them luck should they ever have to go against any US or Russian jet in the future, this thing will be blown to bits right out of the sky." "Obama happy." "the JAS-39 Gripen is more comparable to the F-16 than the F-15E... it is a multi role fighter and has very good electronics and can carry a lot of stand off weapons and can operate from short runways.. wing loading and maneuverability are compatible... the real reason Brazil bought the aircraft is COST... while some people with comment on technology transfer and the ability of the Brazilian Air Force to service this aircraft (they are way off base) no pun intended... it boils down to $$ and the deal!" "The key is technology transfer and right to build or finish assembly in Brazil. The Brazzies are the #3 commercial aircraft builder. One day they may become #3 in fighters with enough bought IP. A cheap price to pay for a stepping stone to another market. I mean: who does the Brazilian Air Force fly security against?" "Brazil is smart not to trust Us built weapons. It sees that the american people don't want spying on them either. They see an overwhelming majority of citizens in outrage and the government dragging it's feet on the issue.They watch the promises Obama made on TV being broken. They saw the military take out kadaffi because he would only accept gold for his oil and not worthless dollars.How can they trust us? How can anyone trust our government which seems to be in rebellion against the constitution and the people? They are wise to distance themselves from the corruption and dirty tricks they would be vulnerable to if they deal with the snakes in washington." "My guess is that regardless of technical aspects of the fighter jets from all three countries, there was no way in hell Brazil would select the American fighter jet after President Obama spied on Brazil's current president." "The Gripen carries the same weapons as the F-18, is more maneuverable with lighter wing loading, tends to have the element of surprise with higher cruise due to delta wing and smaller size, and is 40% cheaper to buy and operate. The only advantage the F-18 has is slightly greater thrust to weight ratio, which is pretty well a wash with the wing loading. As a practical war fighting machine where budgets really matter, the Gripen is an intelligent choice, plus they get technology transfer. That's why Brazil's Air Force prefers it, and when we offended them with our rude spying, that gave their Air Force all the excuse it needed to turn Boeing down." "Looks like NSA just cost us $5 billion. Gotta hate it when you P off a once likely customer by spying on them!" comments from Brazil (Translated): "Surely it was a good purchase! The Rafale sales did not take off, and the Americans would certainly back to us as they always have. Seems a technical decision, more in line with the interests of users, the military. Well done the Brazilian government!" "I was very pleased with the outcome of this negotiation. For us the most important is not the defense provided by these fighters but the prospects we can manufacture in our own country hunts in the medium term future, leveraging Embraer, the Brazilian industry and our exports. Brazil does not think the war but think of how much we can gain from it." "I found a wise decision of our president, a single-engine airplane with a manufacturing cost and maintenance cheaper than its competitors and at a great performance. CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR PRESIDENT, now we must make a deal with Russia to develop the T-50." "Would not be better chose the Russian fighters? like MIG-35 and SU-35?" "fx 2 is finished, open the way for the Russians in 5g!" "Great! Nice shot against the USA. Just missing our people believe more in our abilities!" "at least it isn´t a crappy F-18 when USA have the F-18 Super Hornet and F-35. we´re tired of buying junkyard from other countries!" "right. now put them around the country, make 200 of them by Embraer and buy 100 SU-35 to finish this thing!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gripen_NG#Gripen_NG General characteristicsCrew: 1 (2 for JAS 39D)Payload: 5,300 kg (11,700 lb)Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in); two-seater: 14.8 m (48 ft 5 in)Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)Wing area: 30.0 m² (323 ft²)Empty weight: 6,800 kg[229] (12,600 lb)Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)Max. takeoff weight: 14,000 kg (31,000 lb)Powerplant: 1 × Volvo Aero RM12 afterburning turbofanDry thrust: 54 kN (12,100 lbf)Thrust with afterburner: 80.5 kN (18,100 lbf)[*]Wheel track: 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in) PerformanceMaximum speed: Mach 2 (2,204 km/h, 1,372 mph) at high altitudeCombat radius: 800 km (500 mi, 432 nmi)Ferry range: 3,200 km(2,000 mi)with drop tanksService ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft)Wing loading: 283 kg/m² (58 lb/ft²)Thrust/weight: 0.97 ArmamentGuns: 1× 27 mm Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon with 120 rounds (only available on single-seat A/C model)Hardpoints: 8 (three on each wing and two under fuselage) and provisions to carry combinations of:Rockets: 4× rocket pods 13.5 cm rocketsMissiles:6× Rb.74 (AIM-9) or Rb 98 (IRIS-T)4× Rb.99 (AIM-120) or MICA4× Meteor (under development)4× Rb.752× KEPD.3502× Rbs.15F anti-ship missile[*]Bombs: 4× GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb2× Bk.90 cluster bomb8× Mark 82 bombs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 comments from the internet: "Good job NSA you cost this country a billion dollar plus program with your idiotic spying on everyone idea. I'm surprised you didn't see this coming" "Brazil has a history of chosing cost over quality...ie Mirage from France..We use them for target practice for our missle systems. Zero stealth abilities, huge radar reflections, poor support from a 35 hour per week workforce at a 80 hour cost..." "I guess the Brazilians didn't want an aircraft that leaked fuel all the time (F/A-18). The Gripen is mean donkey" "Sweden is known for its safe cars and brazil probably wants safety first" "Another sad case of quantity over quality. The Gripen is the worst fighter jet on the market today yet Brazil chose to buy something less than the best. I wish them luck should they ever have to go against any US or Russian jet in the future, this thing will be blown to bits right out of the sky." "Obama happy." "the JAS-39 Gripen is more comparable to the F-16 than the F-15E... it is a multi role fighter and has very good electronics and can carry a lot of stand off weapons and can operate from short runways.. wing loading and maneuverability are compatible... the real reason Brazil bought the aircraft is COST... while some people with comment on technology transfer and the ability of the Brazilian Air Force to service this aircraft (they are way off base) no pun intended... it boils down to $$ and the deal!" "The key is technology transfer and right to build or finish assembly in Brazil. The Brazzies are the #3 commercial aircraft builder. One day they may become #3 in fighters with enough bought IP. A cheap price to pay for a stepping stone to another market. I mean: who does the Brazilian Air Force fly security against?" "Brazil is smart not to trust Us built weapons. It sees that the american people don't want spying on them either. They see an overwhelming majority of citizens in outrage and the government dragging it's feet on the issue.They watch the promises Obama made on TV being broken. They saw the military take out kadaffi because he would only accept gold for his oil and not worthless dollars.How can they trust us? How can anyone trust our government which seems to be in rebellion against the constitution and the people? They are wise to distance themselves from the corruption and dirty tricks they would be vulnerable to if they deal with the snakes in washington." "My guess is that regardless of technical aspects of the fighter jets from all three countries, there was no way in hell Brazil would select the American fighter jet after President Obama spied on Brazil's current president." "The Gripen carries the same weapons as the F-18, is more maneuverable with lighter wing loading, tends to have the element of surprise with higher cruise due to delta wing and smaller size, and is 40% cheaper to buy and operate. The only advantage the F-18 has is slightly greater thrust to weight ratio, which is pretty well a wash with the wing loading. As a practical war fighting machine where budgets really matter, the Gripen is an intelligent choice, plus they get technology transfer. That's why Brazil's Air Force prefers it, and when we offended them with our rude spying, that gave their Air Force all the excuse it needed to turn Boeing down." "Looks like NSA just cost us $5 billion. Gotta hate it when you P off a once likely customer by spying on them!" comments from Brazil (Translated): "Surely it was a good purchase! The Rafale sales did not take off, and the Americans would certainly back to us as they always have. Seems a technical decision, more in line with the interests of users, the military. Well done the Brazilian government!" "I was very pleased with the outcome of this negotiation. For us the most important is not the defense provided by these fighters but the prospects we can manufacture in our own country hunts in the medium term future, leveraging Embraer, the Brazilian industry and our exports. Brazil does not think the war but think of how much we can gain from it." "I found a wise decision of our president, a single-engine airplane with a manufacturing cost and maintenance cheaper than its competitors and at a great performance. CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR PRESIDENT, now we must make a deal with Russia to develop the T-50." "Would not be better chose the Russian fighters? like MIG-35 and SU-35?" "fx 2 is finished, open the way for the Russians in 5g!" "Great! Nice shot against the USA. Just missing our people believe more in our abilities!" "at least it isn´t a crappy F-18 when USA have the F-18 Super Hornet and F-35. we´re tired of buying junkyard from other countries!" "right. now put them around the country, make 200 of them by Embraer and buy 100 SU-35 to finish this thing!" http://en.wikipedia....en_NG#Gripen_NG General characteristicsCrew: 1 (2 for JAS 39D)Payload: 5,300 kg (11,700 lb)Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in); two-seater: 14.8 m (48 ft 5 in)Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)Wing area: 30.0 m² (323 ft²)Empty weight: 6,800 kg[229] (12,600 lb)Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)Max. takeoff weight: 14,000 kg (31,000 lb)Powerplant: 1 × Volvo Aero RM12 afterburning turbofanDry thrust: 54 kN (12,100 lbf)Thrust with afterburner: 80.5 kN (18,100 lbf)[*]Wheel track: 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in) PerformanceMaximum speed: Mach 2 (2,204 km/h, 1,372 mph) at high altitudeCombat radius: 800 km (500 mi, 432 nmi)Ferry range: 3,200 km(2,000 mi)with drop tanksService ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft)Wing loading: 283 kg/m² (58 lb/ft²)Thrust/weight: 0.97 ArmamentGuns: 1× 27 mm Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon with 120 rounds (only available on single-seat A/C model)Hardpoints: 8 (three on each wing and two under fuselage) and provisions to carry combinations of:Rockets: 4× rocket pods 13.5 cm rocketsMissiles:6× Rb.74 (AIM-9) or Rb 98 (IRIS-T)4× Rb.99 (AIM-120) or MICA4× Meteor (under development)4× Rb.752× KEPD.3502× Rbs.15F anti-ship missile[*]Bombs: 4× GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb2× Bk.90 cluster bomb8× Mark 82 bombs Brazil is making a serious stand in the world. I wish our government had the same balls as the Brazilian president does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 21, 2013 Author Share Posted December 21, 2013 Brazil is making a serious stand in the world. I wish our government had the same balls as the Brazilian president does. I gonna tell you a little secret ok? it wasn´t our "president" who decided that. it was our military who said "WE NEED A NEW FIGHTER NOW BECAUSE THE CURRENT ONES WILL STOP FLYING ON DECEMBER 31TH" basically our "president" just made the formal decision. last time the military were really angry here we had 25 years of military dictatorship... and guess who started the military dictarorship? the air force command... so. The Brazilian President should no piss-off the Brazilian Air Force or... and think about this. Brazil will developt together with SAAB the Gripen NG. sooner we/they will have the "Sea Gripen" able to operate to/from air carriers (yes, we have one). since Embraer will make then in the future we gonna have the "Gripen BR" (BR=BRasil) and the "Sea Gripen BR". Canada must do the same. if we can do that why Canada can´t? Come on! you Canadians have the Bombardier! re-enginer the Arrow and make a high speed interceptor... this NATO and NAFTA "agreement" is crushing the Canadian military. what about the Canadian government decide thinking about Canadians first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Strangelove Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Many moons ago I got the chance to get an up close look at the Jas 39. Absolutely beautiful bird Brazil picked well also interesting to hear that they are planning to develop a carrier friendly version. I would love to see the Avro Arrow revived especially if they were able to keep the beautiful lines that the original had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 ARROW Mk.1 General characteristicsCrew: 2Length: 77 ft 9 in (23.71 m)Wingspan: 50 ft 0 in (15.24 m)Height: 21 ft 2 in (6.25 m)Wing area: 1,225 ft² (113.8 m²)Airfoil: NACA 0003.5 mod root, NACA 0003.8 tipEmpty weight: 49,040 lb (22,245 kg)Loaded weight: 56,920 lb (25,820 kg)Max. takeoff weight: 68,605 lb (31,120 kg)Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney J75-P-3 turbojetsDry thrust: 12,500 lbf (55.6 kN) eachThrust with afterburner: 23,500 lbf (104.53 kN) each PerformanceMaximum speed: Mach 1.98 (1,307 mph, 2,104 km/h) at 50,000 ft (15,000 m) max. recorded speed; Mach 2+ potential[114]Cruise speed: Mach 0.91 (607 mph, 977 km/h) at 36,000 ft (11,000 m)Combat radius: 360 NM (410 mi, 660 km)Service ceiling: 53,000 ft (16,150 m)Wing loading: 46.5 lb/ft² (226.9 kg/m²)Thrust/weight: 0.825 at loaded weight ArmamentRockets: 1–4× AIR-2 Genie unguided nuclear rockets[citation needed]orMissiles: Up to 8× AIM-4 Falcon, Canadair Velvet Glove (cancelled 1956) or 3 AIM-7 Sparrow II 2D active guidance missiles (cancelled) AvionicsHughes MX-1179 fire control system F-35 General characteristicsCrew: 1Length: 51.4 ft (15.67 m)Wingspan: 35 ft[N 5] (10.7 m)Height: 14.2 ft[N 6] (4.33 m)Wing area: 460 ft²[250] (42.7 m²)Empty weight: 29,300 lb (13,300 kg)Loaded weight: 49,540 lb[234][N 7][494] (22,470 kg)Max. takeoff weight: 70,000 lb[N 8] (31,800 kg)Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney F135 afterburning turbofanDry thrust: 28,000 lbf[495][N 9] (125 kN)Thrust with afterburner: 43,000 lbf[495][496] (191 kN)[*]Internal fuel capacity: 18,480 lb (8,382 kg)[N 10] PerformanceMaximum speed: Mach 1.6+[254] (1,200 mph, 1,930 km/h) (tested to Mach 1.61)[365]Range: 1,200 nmi (2,220 km)on internal fuelCombat radius: 584 nmi[497] (1,080 km)on internal fuel[498]Service ceiling: 60,000 ft[499] (18,288 m) (tested to 43,000 ft)[500]Rate of climb: classified (not publicly available)Wing loading: 107.7 lb/ft² (526 kg/m²; 745 kg/m² max loaded)Thrust/weight: **With full fuel: 0.87With 50% fuel: 1.07[*]Max g-limits: 9 g[N 11] ArmamentGuns: 1 × General Dynamics GAU-12/A Equalizer 25 mm (0.984 in) 4-barreled Gatling cannon, internally mounted with 180 rounds[N 12][254]Hardpoints: 6 × external pylons on wings with a capacity of 15,000 lb (6,800 kg)[250][254] and two internal bays with two pylons each[250] for a total weapons payload of 18,000 lb (8,100 kg)[235] and provisions to carry combinations of:Missiles:Air-to-air missiles:AIM-120 AMRAAMAIM-9X SidewinderIRIS-TMBDA Meteor (pending further funding)[261][*]Air-to-surface missiles: AGM-88 AARGM[501]AGM-158 JASSM[251]Brimstone missile / MBDA SPEAR[502]Joint Air-to-Ground Missile (JAGM)Storm Shadow missileSOM[*]Anti-ship missiles: Joint Strike Missile (JSM)Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM) [503] [*]Bombs: Mark 84 or Mark 83 or Mark 82 GP bombsMk.20 Rockeye II cluster bombWind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD) capablePaveway series laser-guided bombsSmall Diameter Bomb (SDB)Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) seriesAGM-154 JSOWB61 mod 12 nuclear bomb[504] AvionicsNorthrop Grumman Electronic Systems AN/APG-81 AESA radarLockheed Martin AAQ-40 E/O Targeting System (EOTS)Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems AN/AAQ-37 Distributed Aperture System (DAS) missile warning systemBAE Systems AN/ASQ-239 (Barracuda) electronic warfare systemHarris Corporation Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL) communication system well. If USSR/Russia modernized sucessfuly the MIG-25 and MIG-31 I don´t see reasons why Canada can´t do the same with Arrow. would be a high speed interceptor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Strangelove Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 For those who don't know how plain sexy the Arrow looked Damn I need to change my pants just looking at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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