aeromotacanucks Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 http://news.yahoo.com/brazil-picks-sweden-39-gripen-fighter-jet-media-193705850.html;_ylt=A2KLOzGqX7JSRz4AYJXQtDMD Swedish aerospace maker Saab won a $5 billion contract to equip the Brazilian air force with 36 new fighter jets, Defense Minister Celso Amorim announced Wednesday. Saab's Gripen, a state-of-the-art multi-role fighter jet, beat its two rivals -- the Rafale, made by France's Dassault company, and US aviation giant Boeing's F/A-18 fighter -- for the lucrative contract. "After analyzing all the facts, President Dilma Rousseff directed me to inform that the winner of the contract for the acquisition of the 36 fighter jets for the Brazilian Air Force is the Swedish Gripen NG," Amorim told a press conference. The announcement came after more than 10 years of discussions and repeated delays due to budgetary constraints. The Gripen, which was said to be the cheapest of the three aircraft, is capable of performing an extensive range of air-to-air, air-to-surface and reconnaissance missions. It is in use in the air forces of Britain, South Africa, the Czech Republic, Thailand and Hungary. The Brazilian air force insisted it needed the new fighter aircraft to maintain an adequate air defense as it is to retire its 12 Mirage jets in late December. Brazil bought the refurbished Mirage 2000 C/Bs from France in 2005 for $80 million to fly for five years. Brazil insisted on technology transfers so that the planes can be assembled in this country and give a boost to the domestic defense industry. Rousseff had postponed a decision on the FX-2 replacement contract in early 2011 for budgetary reasons but air force chiefs have made it clear that it was an urgent matter. I would prefer see a Sukhoi SU-35 or a MIG-35, BUT the Gripen is also a nice choice. time to change, forget the F-18 and Rafale. we´re tired of buying junkyard from other coutries. sooner the Embraer will make the Brazilian Version of the Gripen! small fighter, take-off and land short. perfect for some small airfields we have here... not a bad choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Awesome choice. Much better option than the F 35 lemon fighter. Still demand this country revamp the arrow platform. Revitalize and reinvent the dead aerospace industry in this country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 yep. not a bad choice, not a bad choice at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Awesome choice. Much better option than the F 35 lemon fighter. Still demand this country revamp the arrow platform. Revitalize and reinvent the dead aerospace industry in this country USA would never offer to Brazil the F35. for some reason we´re not "fully friends" of America in order to them offer the F35. BUT they offer to England this jet. finally a reasonable choice. so long USAF. it´s time for us try a new fighter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 USA would never offer to Brazil the F35. for some reason we´re not "fully friends" of America in order to them offer the F35. BUT they offer to England this jet. finally a reasonable choice. so long USAF. it´s time for us try a new fighter! There's NOTHING on this planet that would convince me the F 35 is worth the bloody asking price. The Gripen for us would be just fine Here is a fun estimate. estimates to re-engineer and redesign the Avro Arrow platform to today's specifications with modern materials and composites would cost in the area of $11 billion. There would by Canadian estimates be nothing on the market that could compare with an interceptor/bomber of that capability if indeed it could be built The build time and actual delivery of the F-35 IF it is working and in production would be 2025 or 2026 and cost over $60 billion. For Canada to mass produce the "Super Arrow" it would cost all told around $34 billion and we could have mass production around 2022 or 2023. http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2013/01/29/introducing-the-super-arrow-an-alternative-to-the-f-35/ http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/avro-arrow-considered-as-f-35-alternative-documents-show-1.1136267 http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/09/11/avro-arrow-revivial-resurrection-f35_n_1875345.html http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/will-legendary-avro-arrow-make-lazarus-like-return/article4530724/ All told Canada could in theory for around $40 billion and about 12 years of work not only make one of the worlds top fighter/interceptors and or bomber aircraft capable of out flying the vast majority of short thinking fighter jets alive today, but could also add tens of thousands of incredibly high paying jobs, revitalize a near dead aerospace industry, make Canada a world leader in aerospace engineering and manufacturing. And add tens of if not hundreds of billions of dollars to our GDP via R&D projects and purchasing. Fancy that eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 F-35 is SO expensive that it´s simply stupid buy this jet when you have better choices to make. but honestly. you know when Canada will buy an European or even a Russian fighter? NEVER. do you think USA will miss a giant client like Canada? hell no! Canada needs a fighter able to operate on unprepared runways, with a large range and large payload. the SU-35 sounds a good choice, or the Eurofighter. on both cases you can have even the naval version of that... Canada decided for an Airbus A310 MRTT to be the PM transport plane. do you think USA was happy with that? do you think Boeing was happy with that? no... Brazil decided for Gripen for 2 basic choices... USA and NSA did s#¨#$& and thanks to Snowden our military simply said "NO" to Boeing, Lockheed and US military... Rafale is too expensive with low results, and France refuses to transfer the tecnology. and our military is tired of France old jets... Gripen is small, less range and less payload BUT can operate on small airfields and it´s very manoeuvrable. you can put then of big airforce bases or/and on small airfields on the amazonic region. it´s a good choice and the Brazilian media is pleased of that "at least it´s not an American junkyard" they´re saying... I think we need a long range interceptor like the SU-35 or even the PAK-FA 50 from Sukhoi, Gripen will support our forces on dogfights but a long range fighter can protect large areas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offensive Threat Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 estimates to re-engineer and redesign the Avro Arrow platform to today's specifications with modern materials and composites would cost in the area of $11 billion. You dont re-engineer or redesign a 55 year old platform. You start from scratch. That $11 billion wouldnt even get it off the ground. With the US unwilling to purchase a plane made outside of the US and already heavily invested in the F-35 along with a long list of other nations a new Avro would face a very tough sales climate. IF the Canadian Gov was involved in the company the costs would go through the roof in dramatic fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:D Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 USA would never offer to Brazil the F35. for some reason we´re not "fully friends" of America in order to them offer the F35. BUT they offer to England this jet. finally a reasonable choice. so long USAF. it´s time for us try a new fighter! Brazil is only a few steps closer to an Ally than to being a cartel. I don't think the US will be sharing military tech anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANGO Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 It's my understanding that Brazil was going to go with the f-35 platform until it was learned that the US had been spying on some of the high ups in the Brazilian government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why didn't we purchase these instead of the F-35's? Oh right we are obligated to buy from the Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why didn't we purchase these instead of the F-35's? Oh right we are obligated to buy from the Americans. maybe it´s time for Canada stop being the USA´s "dude" and start take actions thinking about their own people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 It's my understanding that Brazil was going to go with the f-35 platform until it was learned that the US had been spying on some of the high ups in the Brazilian government. F-35 it´s still under development and it´s SO expensive that only USA is operating then yet. why buy an F-35 if an upgrated version of the F-16 can do the same thing? why not try the MIG-35? in combat situations it doesn´t matter if your jet is stealth but can´t maneuver very welll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Brazil is only a few steps closer to an Ally than to being a cartel. I don't think the US will be sharing military tech anytime soon. maybe that´s why we (Brazil) are becoming closer allies from Russians and Chineses. the Gripen was an urgent solution for the military demands. but honestly we want the SU-35 in the future, and Brazil is developing nuclear submarines... USA must deal better with their allies. not just use them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB007 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 So this is how Brazil is gonna combat the drug lords in Rios. Question: So would the Brazilians have to assemble these jets themselves at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 So this is how Brazil is gonna combat the drug lords in Rios. Question: So would the Brazilians have to assemble these jets themselves at home? yes. the contract demands a future construction of Gripen jets in Brazil by Embraer. 100% tecnology transfer. since it´s a prototype (Gripen NG) we will developt together with Sweden and Brazil will make the "Gripen BR" suitable for Brazilian conditions (hot and wet weather). Canada should do the same. the "Sedin´s Jets" looks pretty nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 You dont re-engineer or redesign a 55 year old platform. You start from scratch. That $11 billion wouldnt even get it off the ground. With the US unwilling to purchase a plane made outside of the US and already heavily invested in the F-35 along with a long list of other nations a new Avro would face a very tough sales climate. IF the Canadian Gov was involved in the company the costs would go through the roof in dramatic fashion. You truly don't understand what I am saying do you? When it was pulled from the landing strip by the government, the Arrow was literally 30 years ahead of its time. It still holds or meets some records in a 60 year old frame. You take the design and you re-engineer it. It happens all the time. Israel did it with their fighter force, Iran with their old french planes and Russia did it with old bolts in the 50's. This is and would be a viable idea worth seriously looking at or some of Canada's most intelligent aerospace engineers and decorated pilots wouldn't have written those recommendations in the stories I provided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uber_pwnzor Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Us Swedes know how to build things that other people use to kill each other with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANGO Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 From the BBC Shares in Sweden's Saab jumped almost 30% after it won a $4.5bn (£2.7bn) deal to supply 36 fighter jets to Brazil. The deal is one of the most valuable ones in emerging markets and Saab had faced competition from rivals Boeing and Dassault Aviation. Many had expected Boeing or Dassault to emerge as the winner. The BBC's Gary Duffy in Sao Paulo says Boeing's cause was not helped by a recent row between the US and Brazil over spying allegations. The US National Security Agency (NSA) has been accused of intercepting emails and messages from President Dilma Rousseff, her aides and state oil company, Petrobras. David Fleischer, a political scientist at the University of Brasilia, said that Ms Rousseff "had been favouring the Boeing plane and a lot of people thought she would announce her decision during her state visit to Washington". "Boeing was very close but then the NSA booted them out of the air," he said. The spying allegations were made by Rio-based journalist Glenn Greenwald, who obtained secret files from former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. The claims led to Ms Rousseff cancelling her state visit to Washington, initially planned for October this year. Brazil had delayed the decision on awarding the contract for many years. Defence Minister Celso Amorim said the authorities, "took into account performance, the effective transfer of technology and costs - not just of acquisition but of maintenance" while finalising the supplier. Brazil's decision comes just weeks after Boeing lost out to Lockheed Martin in the run to win a multi-billion dollar fighter jet deal in South Korea. Boeing had been considered a front runner in that deal as well, until Seoul decided to restart the tender process. While Saab's shares jumped almost 30% to a five-year high, Dassault's price fell more than 7%. French President François Hollande personally lobbied for Dassault's Rafale jet last week during a state visit to Brazil. The Rafale has yet to win an order outside France, although it remains front runner to secure a contract with India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANGO Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 F-35 it´s still under development and it´s SO expensive that only USA is operating then yet. why buy an F-35 if an upgrated version of the F-16 can do the same thing? why not try the MIG-35? in combat situations it doesn´t matter if your jet is stealth but can´t maneuver very welll... I don't presume to know all, that just what I have heard. Governments do strange things as business partners. Other things to consider are maintaining the planes and weather they come with maintenance package. It's one thing to buy a plane but some one has to maintain it and buy parts for it, some deals include this, which might make the deal more attractive. Other arms could be offered as an incentive. People and countries do all kinds of stuff to entice the buyer. Also past dealing might give one competitor an edge over another, depending on how past business is gone. This planes vertical lift off capability offers something other planes don't. Good for counties that have limited runway designs that worked for older air craft but not newer aircraft. Lots of stuff and I am sure allot of murky stuff going on in the back ground that drive an arms deal, that we never hear about. Just look at Canada, we buy 4 used subs and don't even go look at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Us Swedes know how to build things that other people use to kill each other with... and then you give them prizes named for the inventor of dynamite, Alfred Nobel... genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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