The morning after: Clean-up efforts at Pemberton

[etsen3]

So basically a no then would have covered it?

Maybe if you're into country music, oldies, or heavy metal exclusively. Lots of well-known, well-respected, and up and coming artists there. I can understand if you think the lineup as a whole is weak, but you'd have to have a pretty narrow taste if you can't find a SINGLE artist you're into out of that diverse lineup. I mean you just dismissed Kendrick Lamar, one of most highly-regarded artists of this decade, and that's just one example.

Just because you're not into it doesn't mean it's not good.

[riffraff]

Maybe if you're into country music, oldies, or heavy metal exclusively. Lots of well-known, well-respected, and up and coming artists there. I can understand if you think the lineup as a whole is weak, but you'd have to have a pretty narrow taste if you can't find a SINGLE artist you're into out of that diverse lineup. I mean you just dismissed Kendrick Lamar, one of most highly-regarded artists of this decade, and that's just one example.

Just because you're not into it doesn't mean it's not good.

Did Kendrick Lamar use a different name in the past? Because for somebody who is supposedly one of the most highly regarded artists of the last decade, I've never heard of him until this year. Granted I don't listen to rap, but usually there would be no avoiding a celeb of that status.

Not being antagonistic. Just questioning that title.

[etsen3]

Did Kendrick Lamar use a different name in the past? Because for somebody who is supposedly one of the most highly regarded artists of the last decade, I've never heard of him until this year. Granted I don't listen to rap, but usually there would be no avoiding a celeb of that status.

Not being antagonistic. Just questioning that title.

He did go by K-Dot early in his career, but that was before he gained mainstream recognition. I definitely wouldn't describe him as a celebrity in the typical sense. He doesn't have the smash crossover hits or the famous wife or the publicity stunts or the internet memes. He's also only 28, so he doesn't have the longevity (yet) of say, a Jay-Z or Kanye West. So when I say "highly regarded" I don't mean that he is a pop culture icon, I'm speaking in the context of critical acclaim and artistry. Although that's not to say he's some underground indie wonder either, he's released 3 studio albums so far, 2 on major labels, and both of them received big sales, plenty of media attention and near-universal acclaim. Both have had the word "classic" attached to them by fans and critics, and while I personally think it's a little early for that kind of hyperbole, the fact that people are even using that word says something about their magnitude. So I can assure you that if you haven't heard of him until this year, that's moreso because you haven't had your finger on the pulse of recent music, at least not in the hip-hop genre. It's certainly not for a lack of impact (even though he's not a typical "celeb" as I said before).

Anyways, don't mean to derail the thread or sound like one of his promoters, just wanted to provide some context and background for my statement since you asked.

[Offensive Threat]

Kendrick Lamar, one of most highly-regarded artists of this decade,

Thats a bold statement.

[etsen3]

Thats a bold statement.

Is it really though? I didn't say the best but he is a critical darling and gets big sales. At least in his genre he must be at least top 5.

[BeefcakeBo]

sorry there was no tragically gimp

Who said anything about them being good?

If I were you, I would be embarrassed that anyone that's on the list you just made is something you considered to be "good".

[GLASSJAW]

Is it really though? I didn't say the best but he is a critical darling and gets big sales. At least in his genre he must be at least top 5.

top one

i dunno who in rap right now comes even close in terms of underground and mainstream and cross-genre appreciation. he was top 5 for Good Kid Maad City, undoubtedly, but Butterfly just put him ahead

[BI3KSA-]

Yup, even if there were issues with trash not being emptied fast enough or too few water stations, you should plan on bringing items that cause less waste as well as having your own source of water to refill from during the weekend. Using the provided options is great but a little planning goes a long way.

I understand there will be some issues, but it should never approach this scale.

Yeah cause there being 75x+++ more people at Pemberton has nothing to do with the level of trash difference. Stupid pic. Never mind the fact that we dont know when the pics were taken trash clean up process wise.

[BI3KSA-]

Did Kendrick Lamar use a different name in the past? Because for somebody who is supposedly one of the most highly regarded artists of the last decade, I've never heard of him until this year. Granted I don't listen to rap, but usually there would be no avoiding a celeb of that status.

Not being antagonistic. Just questioning that title.

You probably have your head in the sand as far as new music goes then, cause KL has been on top of the game since his first album dropped 4 or so years ago

top one

i dunno who in rap right now comes even close in terms of underground and mainstream and cross-genre appreciation. he was top 5 for Good Kid Maad City, undoubtedly, but Butterfly just put him ahead

Within rap alone Drake is definitely ahead of KL. KL probably gets significantly more love from other genres and the underground scene tho cuz of all the Drake hate cuz his voice so pretty.

[GLASSJAW]

You probably have your head in the sand as far as new music goes then, cause KL has been on top of the game since his first album dropped 4 or so years ago

Within rap alone Drake is definitely ahead of KL. KL probably gets significantly more love from other genres and the underground scene tho cuz of all the Drake hate cuz his voice so pretty.

I don't think Drake touches Kendrick EXCEPT in that Drake has lots of casual/young (female) fans. Drake has a massive audience. But in terms of "artistic value" and critical reception (which I should have included in my previous post), I don't think anything has come close to Butterfly in ages -- certainly not Drake. and you certainly don't hear about the hip hop community embracing Drake all that much, haha

don't get me wrong though, I totally love Drake and listen to him way, way more than Kendrick, but realistically he is just a goofy pop star with with some clever lines and great hooks. it's coke compared to Kendrick's wine

[BI3KSA-]

I don't think Drake touches Kendrick EXCEPT in that Drake has lots of casual/young (female) fans. Drake has a massive audience. But in terms of "artistic value" and critical reception (which I should have included in my previous post), I don't think anything has come close to Butterfly in ages -- certainly not Drake. and you certainly don't hear about the hip hop community embracing Drake all that much, haha

don't get me wrong though, I totally love Drake and listen to him way, way more than Kendrick, but realistically he is just a goofy pop star with with some clever lines and great hooks. it's coke compared to Kendrick's wine

Yeah I completely agree, when I said Drake tops KL in the rap genre I meant in popularity and sales. I do think Drake has more artistic value and depth compared to most mainstream rappers these days though. He at least raps about emotions and feelings and other more relatable stuff. Which is imo a cut above the status quo in rap these days. But I agree on all your points, KL kills everyone on those fronts.

[riffraff]

He did go by K-Dot early in his career, but that was before he gained mainstream recognition. I definitely wouldn't describe him as a celebrity in the typical sense. He doesn't have the smash crossover hits or the famous wife or the publicity stunts or the internet memes. He's also only 28, so he doesn't have the longevity (yet) of say, a Jay-Z or Kanye West. So when I say "highly regarded" I don't mean that he is a pop culture icon, I'm speaking in the context of critical acclaim and artistry. Although that's not to say he's some underground indie wonder either, he's released 3 studio albums so far, 2 on major labels, and both of them received big sales, plenty of media attention and near-universal acclaim. Both have had the word "classic" attached to them by fans and critics, and while I personally think it's a little early for that kind of hyperbole, the fact that people are even using that word says something about their magnitude. So I can assure you that if you haven't heard of him until this year, that's moreso because you haven't had your finger on the pulse of recent music, at least not in the hip-hop genre. It's certainly not for a lack of impact (even though he's not a typical "celeb" as I said before).

Anyways, don't mean to derail the thread or sound like one of his promoters, just wanted to provide some context and background for my statement since you asked.

Thx for the info. As I said, not a hip hop/rap guy.....good to hear that an artist is being recognized for their art regardless of musical genre. I guess for me, my disinterest in rap comes from its main stream acts. Same narcissist message ad nauseum. Same formula. Same packaging. I just don't relate to any of it and if I can't relate to something I can't get behind it.

[riffraff]

You probably have your head in the sand as far as new music goes then, cause KL has been on top of the game since his first album dropped 4 or so years ago

Within rap alone Drake is definitely ahead of KL. KL probably gets significantly more love from other genres and the underground scene tho cuz of all the Drake hate cuz his voice so pretty.

Actually I gave Drake a listen in the "what are you listening to" threads....kazzmanian devil posts him a lot.

As I'm always looking to hear something new I have it a whirl to see what the hype was about. If I'm to be fair I did recognize some obvious talent in word flow and over all ambient sound. However the message was just as generic as any rap out there - basically, "I'm the $&!#. I gotz more money than you. Nigger nigger nigger nigger."

So to me, that message isn't art. It's same same regurgitation of negative and derogatory vocabulary. And for some reason we

(Mainstream society) accept, financially support, condone and celebritize it.

Yawn.

Edit:

Love the I am racist mod edit. When uploading music or video with the same words is accepted. Lol.

[Apple Juice]

clean up was included with the purchase of the tickets. btw. festival goers payed for people to clean up the grounds after the festival.

Still doesn't give people an excuse to leave everything on the floor. At the very least, be considerate of the environment around you.

Who said anything about them being good?

If I were you, I would be embarrassed that anyone that's on the list you just made is something you considered to be "good".

If you've never heard of Tiesto, who is basically a living legend and the king of electronic dance music, you've probably been living underneath a rock

[etsen3]

top one

i dunno who in rap right now comes even close in terms of underground and mainstream and cross-genre appreciation. he was top 5 for Good Kid Maad City, undoubtedly, but Butterfly just put him ahead

I don't think Drake touches Kendrick EXCEPT in that Drake has lots of casual/young (female) fans. Drake has a massive audience. But in terms of "artistic value" and critical reception (which I should have included in my previous post), I don't think anything has come close to Butterfly in ages -- certainly not Drake. and you certainly don't hear about the hip hop community embracing Drake all that much, haha

don't get me wrong though, I totally love Drake and listen to him way, way more than Kendrick, but realistically he is just a goofy pop star with with some clever lines and great hooks. it's coke compared to Kendrick's wine

I too like Drake, but GKMC and Pimp a Butterfly are so obviously on another level of genius. There are rappers that get more sales than Kendrick, and others who are lesser-known but at the same level of talent, but there's definitely no one else that has the combination of both they way he does (top-level artistry and wide audience). If you're using that as the measuring stick (the all-around package of mainstream appeal and critical acclaim), I am more than comfortable calling him number one in hip hop, and I as I said before I really don't think it's all that groundbreaking to say he's in the top bracket of all musicians in recent memory. Not many are as widely respected as he is.

Thx for the info. As I said, not a hip hop/rap guy.....good to hear that an artist is being recognized for their art regardless of musical genre. I guess for me, my disinterest in rap comes from its main stream acts. Same narcissist message ad nauseum. Same formula. Same packaging. I just don't relate to any of it and if I can't relate to something I can't get behind it.

Hasn't every single genre of popular music been plagued by cliche at one point or another though? AC/DC has like 5 topics that they write about (weapons/sex/substances/the act of rocking/satanic things), and they aren't the only band that used those cliches (mind you with AC/DC that's almost part of their charm). All those 80's hair metal bands are basically interchangeable (hard rocking songs about sex and partying combined with sensitive love power ballads). Same thing with the current crop of EDM rave unts-unts DJ's (anthemic female vocal hook, build-up, catchy drop sound familiar?). You literally can't go a day without a new "country" song coming about making out with your highschool sweetheart on the tailgate by the riverbank drinking moonshine with *insert slightly older country superstar* on the radio. And of course I know exactly what you're talking about with the rap cliches (standard trap beats and big booties, gangs, flashy cars, etc.). That kind of music does have it's place and I enjoy a lot of it (sometimes I really do just wanna drive around and act cool or get drunk and yell about partying and have mindless fun), but it does get tiresome. There's a fine line between having a lyrical identity that matches your genre and just spouting off the same thing over and over again. Kendrick did a brilliant job on his first album of bringing a thoughtful and creative perspective to traditional topics.

The problem comes from record companies forcing a cookie-cutter formula on the artist because that's what sells. They'll do market segmentations and mass produce music and sell it to 14 year olds who don't know any better. This is not new problem, it's been happening for decades if not longer. Luckily with the internet it's the easiest thing ever to dig past the Florida Georgia Lines and Wiz Khalifa's of the world and discover more creative acts who are well known precisely because you don't need to go into a record store just to hear their sound anymore.

[GLASSJAW]

I too like Drake, but GKMC and Pimp a Butterfly are so obviously on another level of genius. There are rappers that get more sales than Kendrick, and others who are lesser-known but at the same level of talent, but there's definitely no one else that has the combination of both they way he does (top-level artistry and wide audience). If you're using that as the measuring stick (the all-around package of mainstream appeal and critical acclaim), I am more than comfortable calling him number one in hip hop, and I as I said before I really don't think it's all that groundbreaking to say he's in the top bracket of all musicians in recent memory. Not many are as widely respected as he is.

Hasn't every single genre of popular music been plagued by cliche at one point or another though? AC/DC has like 5 topics that they write about (weapons/sex/substances/the act of rocking/satanic things), and they aren't the only band that used those cliches (mind you with AC/DC that's almost part of their charm). All those 80's hair metal bands are basically interchangeable (hard rocking songs about sex and partying combined with sensitive love power ballads). Same thing with the current crop of EDM rave unts-unts DJ's (anthemic female vocal hook, build-up, catchy drop sound familiar?). You literally can't go a day without a new "country" song coming about making out with your highschool sweetheart on the tailgate by the riverbank drinking moonshine with *insert slightly older country superstar* on the radio. And of course I know exactly what you're talking about with the rap cliches (standard trap beats and big booties, gangs, flashy cars, etc.). That kind of music does have it's place and I enjoy a lot of it (sometimes I really do just wanna drive around and act cool or get drunk and yell about partying and have mindless fun), but it does get tiresome. There's a fine line between having a lyrical identity that matches your genre and just spouting off the same thing over and over again. Kendrick did a brilliant job on his first album of bringing a thoughtful and creative perspective to traditional topics.

The problem comes from record companies forcing a cookie-cutter formula on the artist because that's what sells. They'll do market segmentations and mass produce music and sell it to 14 year olds who don't know any better. This is not new problem, it's been happening for decades if not longer. Luckily with the internet it's the easiest thing ever to dig past the Florida Georgia Lines and Wiz Khalifa's of the world and discover more creative acts who are well known precisely because you don't need to go into a record store just to hear their sound anymore.

it's not easy for most CDC'ers! if it wasn't popular in the 90s or EDM, CDC'ers aint listening

[elvis15]

Yeah cause there being 75x+++ more people at Pemberton has nothing to do with the level of trash difference. Stupid pic. Never mind the fact that we dont know when the pics were taken trash clean up process wise.

So more people means they can't plan for more clean up crews? Or the people that are there on average can be less responsible about leaving crap around/behind? All I'm hearing are excuses as to why people can't be more responsible at Pemberton and other festivals/events/etc.

I'm sure in the pics the right one was taken at a more favourable time, but by all accounts the clean up was much, much easier as well.

[BI3KSA-]

So more people means they can't plan for more clean up crews? Or the people that are there on average can be less responsible about leaving crap around/behind? All I'm hearing are excuses as to why people can't be more responsible at Pemberton and other festivals/events/etc.

I'm sure in the pics the right one was taken at a more favourable time, but by all accounts the clean up was much, much easier as well.

More people means more mess. The entire pic is bullcrap. Trying to say mainstreamers are more dirty when the situation is totally different, the pics probably werent taken at the same point in the clean up process, and since the beginning of festivals in every genre from Woodstock to Pemberfest its been the same result when there is that many people. If there was 75+++ times more people at that metal festival it would have been the same result. Massive bias in that pic with a propaganda type message, is why I find it so annoying.

The mess was huge, the people were not being responsbile and didnt plan well, and the event didnt plan well either. Its gross and shouldnt have happened. The worst part is 99% of that probably ended up in the landfill. I agree on all those points, but that pic is bullcrap.

[BI3KSA-]

Actually I gave Drake a listen in the "what are you listening to" threads....kazzmanian devil posts him a lot.

As I'm always looking to hear something new I have it a whirl to see what the hype was about. If I'm to be fair I did recognize some obvious talent in word flow and over all ambient sound. However the message was just as generic as any rap out there - basically, "I'm the crap. I gotz more money than you. I am racist. nigger I am racist. nigger."

So to me, that message isn't art. It's same same regurgitation of negative and derogatory vocabulary. And for some reason we

(Mainstream society) accept, financially support, condone and celebritize it.

Yawn.

Edit:

Love the I am racist mod edit. When uploading music or video with the same words is accepted. Lol.

Some of his songs are somewhat generic as far as rap content goes, thats true. Part of rap will always be feeding the ego, talking about money, women, fast cars and being better than everyone else. But that is part of what people like about it. People listen to Drake or whoever else say "im the muddafkin sh*t" and bob their head and say and think the same thing of themselves like "yeah im the muddafkin sh*t". Its a pump up kind of thing. An ego boost kind of thing. That being said, a lot of his songs are about emotions, real life situations and other relatable stuff, which was what I was getting at.

I can't think of a single time he said the word n****r, so you should be flapping your mouth off and spewing that word either. You're probably thinking of the word n***a which has a completely different meaning.

I could rattle off a bunch of reasons why rap is art, but its 5am and I just dont have it in me atm

[Lancaster]

More people means more mess. The entire pic is bullcrap. Trying to say mainstreamers are more dirty when the situation is totally different, the pics probably werent taken at the same point in the clean up process, and since the beginning of festivals in every genre from Woodstock to Pemberfest its been the same result when there is that many people. If there was 75+++ times more people at that metal festival it would have been the same result. Massive bias in that pic with a propaganda type message, is why I find it so annoying.

The mess was huge, the people were not being responsbile and didnt plan well, and the event didnt plan well either. Its gross and shouldnt have happened. The worst part is 99% of that probably ended up in the landfill. I agree on all those points, but that pic is bullcrap.

Probably has nothing to do with mainstream vs "real fans", just whether people are lazy or not.

http://www.rt.com/news/167408-japan-fans-cleaning-stadium/

Apparently this is the norm. My wife says that even after outdoor concerts, it's pretty clean afterwards.

One group of people imbued with the concept of cleaning after oneself, the other group (like the ones at Pemberton) are imbued with the concept of "I don't give a ****".