[Discussion] Value of our 2021 1st

[Patel Bure]

On 5/24/2019 at 11:26 PM, janisahockeynut said:

So, as we advance up the ladder of respectability, and enter the playoffs our 1st will not be so potent, with less of a chance of producing an elite player...….

Further to that, any pick we acquire via the draft 2 years from now, will most likely take another 2 years before the player is ready....so 4 to 5 years away.

 

My question, is would you trade that 2021st along with another asset for a later 1st or a needed prospect...….

 

An example would be...……….Baertschi 50% + 2021 1st to Pittsburgh for a 2019 1st (21st OA)

 

or...……………………………….Baertschi 50% + 2021 1st to Ottawa for their 2019 2nd(32st) + 2019 2nd (44th)

 

IMO, we are just advancing our 2021 pick to 2019, with not much of a change in drafted prospect for the trading team.

 

Now, don't get hooked on those examples, because there are many more that are more likely a hell of a lot better...….

 

But the question is...…..would you move our 2021 1st....hoping in 2 years that our regular season positions 16th tor 20th area

 

...maybe it goes with a short term Cap Dump

 

Just trying to move things around a little.

 

 

I would use the 2021 1st as a sweetener to get rid Eriksson (with zero retention) under the following conditions:

 

1) We sign Toffoli

2) One of Brock or Jake is used to get into the 2020 1st round draft so as to avoid the Canucks going two straight drafts without a 1st.   That’s just bad business.

 

1) Sign Toffoli

2) Trade Brock for a 2020 1st and a good prospect.   That clears 5.85 million.

3) Trade a conditional 2021 1st + Eriksson + 7th for a 2020 6th round pick (ie basically the same trade that Toronto and Carolina made involving Marleau).  That clears 6 million.

 

p.s.  I’ve heard others mention the idea of using Demko as a sweetener to move a bad contract like Eriksson, but honestly, this kid is a the real deal.   People will laugh at me for saying this, but he’s the next Carey Price in my opinion.  Watch the tapes of the last three games.   The kid was not only carrying the Canucks, but his technique and composure was absolutely flawless.  This was NOT a Binnington/Matt Murray/Corey Crawford  situation where the goalies played well behind DOMINANT teams.   This was Carey Price level stuff.  This was 1994 Kirk McLean level stuff and it was 2007 Roberto Luongo level stuff.    For me, Demko is now on the same level as Petey and Hughes as far as Canuck untouchables go.  

 

 

[mll]

2 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I would use the 2021 1st as a sweetener to get rid Eriksson (with zero retention) under the following conditions:

 

1) We sign Toffoli

2) One of Brock or Jake is used to get into the 2020 1st round draft so as to avoid the Canucks going two straight drafts without a 1st.   That’s just bad business.

 

1) Sign Toffoli

2) Trade Brock for a 2020 1st and a good prospect.   That clears 5.85 million.

3) Trade a conditional 2021 1st + Eriksson + 7th for a 2020 6th round pick (ie basically the same trade that Toronto and Carolina made involving Marleau).  That clears 6 million.

 

p.s.  I’ve heard others mention the idea of using Demko as a sweetener to move a bad contract like Eriksson, but honestly, this kid is a the real deal.   People will laugh at me for saying this, but he’s the next Carey Price in my opinion.  Watch the tapes of the last three games.   The kid was not only carrying the Canucks, but his technique and composure was absolutely flawless.  This was NOT a Binnington/Matt Murray/Corey Crawford  situation where the goalies played well behind DOMINANT teams.   This was Carey Price level stuff.  This was 1994 Kirk McLean level stuff and it was 2007 Roberto Luongo level stuff.    For me, Demko is now on the same level as Petey and Hughes as far as Canuck untouchables go.  

 

 

 

Marleau was a buyout.  He was an age 35 contract so it was a 1-off cap hit and then he is off the books.  That's not the case with Eriksson who has that extra year.  An Eriksson buyout would be on the books for 4 years vs 1  -  5.7M + 3.7M + 700K + 700K.     It's now a flat cap.  

 

Don't see Benning moving Boeser for futures.  The team finally made the playoffs.  Taking away a contributing member of the team without getting in return a player that helps the team compete in the immediate would have them take a step back.  It would also seriously annoy Pettersson.

 

Demko + Eriksson is more than 7M.  Don't think teams see Demko as a 7M goalie.  There are better ways to use that kind of cap space. The goalie market is saturated.    

[mll]

On 9/5/2020 at 6:04 PM, Alivia said:

Hi, i'm pretty knew to all this but i've been looking into the details more and am really into some of the players we've got goin rn.

I had some thoughts on what I think seem like good ideas and just wanted to see if anyone has some input. Pls educate and correct me if i'm being dumb lol

 

From what i see on this contract list, the two players with ending contracts I think we should drop/trade would be Pearson and Edler. I do like Edler, but i've seen some talk saying they're probably going to part ways with him anyways coming up.

   - My thoughts on that is because they are both a little older they have kind of peaked performance wise and don't offer anything really special to our team. They are both just solid players, but I think it would be best to not re-sign or whatever considering our cap and stuff.

 

I was looking into this kid we drafted in i think 2019 thats out at training camp: Nils Hoglander. He seems to be very interesting. Has a nice unique style and a nice and aggressive forecheck. But i was mostly impressed by his puck-handling and creativity. He seems like a perfect fit for Vacnouver and could offer something special. I was imagining him on a line with Pettersson and Miller. I feel like Miller's strength and aggression mixed with Pettersson's smarts and net area control, Hoglander's creative shooting and board work/ offensive puck control could make a really cool and killer line of forwards, with Hughes and Tanev on D. 

So, I would love to see him brought in for some games this coming 2021 season. With that, we could replace Pearson with Boeser from line 1, on with Horvat and Toffoli. The only other thing I would do is try and trade Edler or trade Pearson or draft etc.  for a new D player. Probably someone with really good possession and strength for board battles etc.  

Since our contract cap is like maxed out almost or whatever, I feel it would be smart to bring in Hoglander and give him a  shot since he's already signed. And, if he works out then we aren't expending anything for a new forward. But we really need to work on our offence and breaking through and controlling the puck.

In this scenario basically i'm just suggesting bringing in Hoglander for some games next season. For some other help and shifting, maybe trading Pearson and Edler for a new defenceman- is that realistic? I'm not super clear on this contract and trading stuff.

But if you get my gist what are some thoughts?

 

Thx

Hoglander has been loaned to his SHL team but will be present at training camp (whenever that is).  He might not quite be NHL ready.  He will have to earn a spot.  The team is competitive and every game is an opportunity to win so they are probably not looking to take out a roster player just to give a prospect a look unless he has earned it.  

 

It's also a question of roster spots, waivers and cap space especially if Ferland goes on LTIR.   They might also decide to loan Hoglander back to his SHL team if they feel he is not quite ready.

 

The draft / UFA off-season is next month.  Once the signings/trades are known it will give a better indication whether they even see a prospect making the team.  

 

Given the pandemic the cap is going to stay flat for a while.  It's going to make it more challenging to make cap clearing trades.  Some teams are also being imposed an internal cap as owners are also hurting in their regular business. 

 

Edler has a full NMC (no movement clause) - this prevents Vancouver from trading him or demoting him to the minors.  He has 1 year left on his contract.  

 

CapFriendly gives an easy overview of the Canucks' (and other teams) contracts situation:  https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canucks

 

[Alivia]

On 9/7/2020 at 4:50 AM, mll said:

Hoglander has been loaned to his SHL team but will be present at training camp (whenever that is).  He might not quite be NHL ready.  He will have to earn a spot.  The team is competitive and every game is an opportunity to win so they are probably not looking to take out a roster player just to give a prospect a look unless he has earned it.  

 

It's also a question of roster spots, waivers and cap space especially if Ferland goes on LTIR.   They might also decide to loan Hoglander back to his SHL team if they feel he is not quite ready.

 

The draft / UFA off-season is next month.  Once the signings/trades are known it will give a better indication whether they even see a prospect making the team.  

 

Given the pandemic the cap is going to stay flat for a while.  It's going to make it more challenging to make cap clearing trades.  Some teams are also being imposed an internal cap as owners are also hurting in their regular business. 

 

Edler has a full NMC (no movement clause) - this prevents Vancouver from trading him or demoting him to the minors.  He has 1 year left on his contract.  

 

CapFriendly gives an easy overview of the Canucks' (and other teams) contracts situation:  https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canucks

 

Hey thanks for the explanation on that. Makes sense!

I'd love to see Hoglander make the jump though! Looking forward to next months draft season

[vannuck59]

On 5/24/2019 at 11:26 PM, janisahockeynut said:

So, as we advance up the ladder of respectability, and enter the playoffs our 1st will not be so potent, with less of a chance of producing an elite player...….

Further to that, any pick we acquire via the draft 2 years from now, will most likely take another 2 years before the player is ready....so 4 to 5 years away.

 

My question, is would you trade that 2021st along with another asset for a later 1st or a needed prospect...….

 

An example would be...……….Baertschi 50% + 2021 1st to Pittsburgh for a 2019 1st (21st OA)

 

or...……………………………….Baertschi 50% + 2021 1st to Ottawa for their 2019 2nd(32st) + 2019 2nd (44th)

 

IMO, we are just advancing our 2021 pick to 2019, with not much of a change in drafted prospect for the trading team.

 

Now, don't get hooked on those examples, because there are many more that are more likely a hell of a lot better...….

 

But the question is...…..would you move our 2021 1st....hoping in 2 years that our regular season positions 16th tor 20th area

 

...maybe it goes with a short term Cap Dump

 

Just trying to move things around a little.

 

 

I think we are ready now to compete Trade our First in 21 for a GOOD deman with Term or a young deman thats still on his entry level contract. I think we are one or two moves away from a very good 100 point team.

[BPA]

Keep the draft pick (or at least make it top 10 protected).

 

If Canucks for some reason take a step back, we can draft Luke Hughes (Quinn's little but taller brother).

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/2021-nhl-draft-rankings-bell-preseason-top-31/

 

Tier Two

Rank	Player	Position	Team	League
5	Dylan Guenther	RW	Edmonton Oil Kings	WHL
6	Kent Johnson	C	University of Michigan	NCAA
7	Chaz Lucius	C	U.S National U18 Team	NTDP
8	Fabian Lysell	LW	Frölunda HC J20	SuperElit
9	Luke Hughes	D	U.S. National U18 Team	NTDP

[RomanP]

Ignore, just saw the date of the original post.

Edited September 17, 2020 by RomanP