A whole year of the same results and attitude and yet the core remains intact. It's Insane. Where is the accountability?

[ToTellTheTruth]

18 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

As you pointed out: having the worst record, in the last 7 years - really say a lot and this article about Aquamans' flawed gamble has led to the 7 year record, with a poor prospect depth & no cap.  As for Quinn, he clearly understood what he had to work with; and it also seemed the players, played differently under him.

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

Under Aquillini this team was the best in the league for two years in a row, never happened before for the Canucks, played for a cup, became one of the iconic teams in the league, were one of the most progressive for player health, made the playoffs several years in a row, drafted two winner the only two top ten picks they had, traded away other picks to improve the winning cup contending team.

 

One of his biggest failings was listening to the fans and firing Gillis and the fan revolt caused him to hire player first and friendly Linden.

 

Allvin says the fans will need to be patient, it will take time to build this team one player per year. 

 

Cemented into mediocrity. 

 

I sure hope Aquillini doesn't wait another 7 years to demand his employees build a good team.

 

It seems to be the NHL formula for teams, 7 to 12 years out of the playoffs except for some markets.

The NHL hated Melynk because he was a maverick and showed what a determined owner that takes a hand can do and what is possible, Ottawa has rebuilt in 3 and bit years.

 

Here is a perfect example of differences between fan bases.

 

There is no doubt that Montreal fans are as dedicated to their team as Canuck fans, if not even more.

 

Montreal got embarrassed in their game and the overall reaction was, "Oh well they are young and rebuilding" They will learn.

In Vancouver because there is no massage of rebuilding fans are on edge and the reactions are quite different, polar opposites actually.

 

Montreal loses and the reaction they will learn

Vancouver loses and the reaction is are the good enough to learn or will they ever learn or why haven't they learned yet?

[Strawbone]

I’d love to hear Travis Green’s honest thoughts on this team. In hindsight, I have a lot more sympathy for him and don’t think he was the main problem with this group. Sorry Travis! This seems like an uncoachable team. 

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Under Aquillini this team was the best in the league for two years in a row, never happened before for the Canucks, played for a cup, became one of the iconic teams in the league, were one of the most progressive for player health, made the playoffs several years in a row, drafted two winner the only two top ten picks they had, traded away other picks to improve the winning cup contending team.

 

One of his biggest failings was listening to the fans and firing Gillis and the fan revolt caused him to hire player first and friendly Linden.

 

Allvin says the fans will need to be patient, it will take time to build this team one player per year. 

 

Cemented into mediocrity. 

 

I sure hope Aquillini doesn't wait another 7 years to demand his employees build a good team.

 

It seems to be the NHL formula for teams, 7 to 12 years out of the playoffs except for some markets.

The NHL hated Melynk because he was a maverick and showed what a determined owner that takes a hand can do and what is possible, Ottawa has rebuilt in 3 and bit years.

 

Here is a perfect example of differences between fan bases.

 

There is no doubt that Montreal fans are as dedicated to their team as Canuck fans, if not even more.

 

Montreal got embarrassed in their game and the overall reaction was, "Oh well they are young and rebuilding" They will learn.

In Vancouver because there is no massage of rebuilding fans are on edge and the reactions are quite different, polar opposites actually.

 

Montreal loses and the reaction they will learn

Vancouver loses and the reaction is are the good enough to learn or will they ever learn or why haven't they learned yet?

Basically, it comes down to messaging: from the owner/FO.  I keep referring to this article, about Aqaumans' stance on constantly chasing the playoffs cause it only confirms, what has been the plan - since the trophy years of Gillis: ever retooling.  After the 2011 season, one of the rebuilding clubs, was the Avs and we all know, what that roster did, last year.

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

 

Imo, the fans edginess has turned back to the same frustration we had from the JB era cause the current FO has reverted back to Aquamans' ever retooling plan and with this very familiar plan, more (very familiar) shortsighted gambles are coming.  Good chance, the Bo Horvat return will be underwhelming cause the best player, is headed the other way.  It is looking more & more evident, that the intended return is not for futures - smh.  Anyways, I can go on but I am not going to re hash what I had already posted on this topic.  It is fairly, obvious that Aquaman will not change his plan(s) cause he KNOWS a regular season win/trophy is still enough, to fill the seats.

 

Also, after doing SOME research: since 2011 the Canucks has the 10th worst winning percentage in the league.  Basically, a team stuck in NHL PURGATORY or the middle.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ToTellTheTruth]

48 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Basically, it comes down to messaging: from the owner/FO.  I keep referring to this article, about Aqaumans' stance on constantly chasing the playoffs cause it only confirms, what has been the plan - since the trophy years of Gillis: ever retooling.  After the 2011 season, one of the rebuilding club, was the Avs and we all know, what that roster did, last year.

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

 

 

Also, after doing SOME research: since 2011 the Canucks has the 10th worst winning percentage in the league:

 

 

The article is like 9 years ago.

 

Good god man, that is a canned statement any owner or any team official would say, except if they are ready to tear it down. Sort of like what Rutherford said, they aren't good enough. True that was an obvious statement but it was said while sitting next to Aquillini and he didn't blink an eye. If anything he supported that with "anything they want"

 

Even Melnyk was saying the same thing right up to when he tore it down. It is such an obvious statement it is almost impossible to find an owner that would say anything different. The closest I can remember with regards to winning was in reference to the team winning a cup before his father died.

 

The stats are about losing percentages, that is points percentages including loser points so the real stats are worse. An OTL is a loss.

 

The last 8 years and to date, the Canucks have the worst win/loss record of any team in the league. Their win loss record shows they never made the .500 mark

 

565 games - 239 wins and 326 losses, not close a .423 win percentage Even worse is the number of games won in OT included as wins.

 

And the last 8 years to be repeated following what Allvin is saying now, it will take time, one piece at a time, younger without winning (ais an excuse), see Benning extracts and change the name to Allvin. Canned statements. At least when Montreal, Arizona, Buffalo or Ottawa say that it really is true. Canucks have a grand total of 6 players 24 and under. Some aren't even regulars like Delia, Pederson, Studnicka and Aman, hardly instrumental in the team's success, oh and Stillman

 

One thing did come up was that he didn't refute the possibility Hughes on the trade block comment though.

 

Very hard to get a handle on just what the plan might be. 

 

Another jersey on the ice too, were the fans chanting "bull shat" during the game, I noticed the play by play guys started talking non stop and got much louder or crowd noise got much quieter.

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by ToTellTheTruth

[ShawnAntoski]

39 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

The article is like 9 years ago.

 

Good god man, that is a canned statement any owner or any team official would say, except if they are ready to tear it down. Sort of like what Rutherford said, they aren't good enough. True that was an obvious statement but it was said while sitting next to Aquillini and he didn't blink an eye. If anything he supported that with "anything they want"

 

Even Melnyk was saying the same thing right up to when he tore it down. It is such an obvious statement it is almost impossible to find an owner that would say anything different. The closest I can remember with regards to winning was in reference to the team winning a cup before his father died.

 

The stats are about losing percentages, that is points percentages including loser points so the real stats are worse. An OTL is a loss.

 

The last 8 years and to date, the Canucks have the worst win/loss record of any team in the league. Their win loss record shows they never made the .500 mark

 

565 games - 239 wins and 326 losses, not close a .423 win percentage Even worse is the number of games won in OT included as wins.

 

And the last 8 years to be repeated following what Allvin is saying now, it will take time, one piece at a time, younger without winning (ais an excuse), see Benning extracts and change the name to Allvin. Canned statements. At least when Montreal, Arizona, Buffalo or Ottawa say that it really is true. Canucks have a grand total of 6 players 24 and under. Some aren't even regulars like Delia, Pederson, Studnicka and Aman, hardly instrumental in the team's success, oh and Stillman

 

One thing did come up was that he didn't refute the possibility Hughes on the trade block comment though.

 

Very hard to get a handle on just what the plan might be. 

 

Another jersey on the ice too, were the fans chanting "bull shat" during the game, I noticed the play by play guys started talking non stop and got much louder or crowd noise got much quieter.

 

Thanks for clarifying and it seems I made the team look better - still a Canuck fan, just not when it comes to Aquaman & his FO's.  Imo, the mix messaging, is mainly a distraction to keep the seats filled.  It is ALSO insuting cause the fanbase, is dedicated & knowledgeable; and most do understand the type of moves, they are making cause we had seen the same tactics with JB.  As for trading Hughes or Horvat, eventually the law of diminishing return will hurt the team cause the best player is leaving the team.  Anyways, I hope they keep doubling down on Aquamans' playoff chasing strategy cause apathy is here for some and all/most with the people I know. 

 

Also, which website are you using for the team stats ?

Edited December 18, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ToTellTheTruth]

43 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Thanks for clarifying and it seems I made the team look better - still a Canuck fan, just not when it comes to Aquaman & his FO's.  Imo, the mix messaging, is mainly a distraction to keep the seats filled.  It is ALSO insuting cause the fanbase, is dedicated & knowledgeable; and most do understand the type of moves, they are making cause we had seen the same tactics with JB.  As for trading Hughes or Horvat, eventually the law of diminishing return will hurt the team cause the best player is leaving the team.  Anyways, I hope they keep doubling down on Aquamans' playoff chasing strategy cause apathy is here for some and all/most with the people I know. 

 

Also, which website are you using for the team stats ?

As much as they are fan favourite and lodestones for attention their departure will not change the team's success much. With them the team is only marginally better because the team was never planned to be better, it takes a longer view than "we don't know what will happen tomorrow".

 

Vancouver contrary to Allvin and Benning is not a young team and using Rutherford's guidelines not enough in the same age bracket.

Any GM can add enough young age roster players to make that argument of being a young team but as NJD, Buff, Otta, Colo, Mon, all show there is young but there is also good

 

And rebuilds from scratch don't take as long as this franchise has been suffering already, often two rebuilds can be made in that same time frame and have been.

 

hockeyreference shows the needed information but some still had to be added and subtracted yourself.

The wins and losses are easy though

Take the number of season and add the games played then subtract the number of wins the rest are losses. The only set back is OT wins are counted as wins and really shouldn't be, but for simplicity that works easiest.

Edited December 18, 2022 by ToTellTheTruth

[ShawnAntoski]

9 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

As much as they are fan favourite and lodestones for attention their departure will not change the team's success much. With them the team is only marginally better because the team was never planned to be better, it takes a longer view than "we don't know what will happen tomorrow".

 

Vancouver contrary to Allvin and Benning is not a young team and using Rutherford's guidelines not enough in the same age bracket.

Any GM can add enough young age roster players to make that argument of being a young team but as NJD, Buff, Otta, Colo, Mon, all show there is young but there is also good

 

And rebuilds from scratch don't take as long as this franchise has been suffering already, often two rebuilds can be made in that same time frame and have been.

Yeah, any process is a gamble and it always comes down to the person making the decisions.  Currently with the Canucks, Aquamans hands on approach, is obvious and such an approach can be counterproductive, if it means the FO, is handcuffed into NOT doing, what they think, is best for the team.  Anyways, from the outside it seems obvious Aquaman will continue to double down, on his approach and nothing will change.

 

You keep bringing up Melnky and what did OTT accomplished, with him (RIP) ?

Edited December 18, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ToTellTheTruth]

16 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, any process is a gamble and it always comes down to the person making the decisions.  Currently with the Canucks, Aquamans hands on approach, is obvious and such an approach can be counterproductive, if it means the FO, is handcuffed into NOT doing, what they think, is best for the team.  Anyways, from the outside it seems obvious Aquaman will continue to double down, on his approach and nothing will change.

 

You keep bringing up Melnky and what did OTT accomplished, with him (RIP) ?

Ottawa is 3 and bit into the rebuild they have millions in cap space, are ahead of the Canucks already with 7 injuries to key players and in a harder division/conference, they also have 11 core players under 24 and 5 picks so far in the first two rounds this year and next.

 

He started the rebuild only 3+ years ago, he laid out the plan, cap spending and expectations, there were no hands off players. He knew that his team wold be stuck in a perpetual retooling with overpaid players getting older and less impactful. It was obvious that Toronto was going to become a powerhouse while his team kept the same players. 

That lesson is all over the NHL, failed retools, upgrades and hanging on to fan favourites many more of those failures than the successful ones and like I posted with a planned tank and plan looking forward those are mostly successful.

 

Vancouver wants to do this to fans or at least some feel like it already;

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by ToTellTheTruth

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Ottawa is 3 and bit into the rebuild they have millions in cap space, are ahead of the Canucks already with 7 injuries to key players and in a harder division/conference, they also have 11 core players under 24 and 5 picks so far in the first two rounds this year and next.

 

He started the rebuild only 3+ years ago, he laid out the plan, cap spending and expectations, there were no hands off players. He knew that his team wold be stuck in a perpetual retooling with overpaid players getting older and less impactful. It was obvious that Toronto was going to become a powerhouse while his team kept the same players. 

That lesson is all over the NHL, failed retools, upgrades and hanging on to fan favourites many more of those failures than the successful ones and like I posted with a planned tank and plan looking forward those are mostly successful.

 

Vancouver wants to do this to fans or at least some feel like it already;

 

Good points and right now, Aquaman is only committed to the failed ever retooling plan.

 

Plus, I can agree on your take, on debunking Allvins "young team" argument.  Right now, Allvin looking very much like a pandering politician, with only shortsighted moves in his tool belt - to earn a contract extension.

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Muttley said:

 

I think JR/PA stated their (the owner’s) planned future.  It’s just one a lot of fans (me included) disagree with. But yes, it’s definitely the same as Benning, and Gillis and Nonis.  Same plan; same owner. 

[Ballisticsports.]

Burke being humble and not taking credit and passing it to people more responsible for picks turning out (Like the best GM's do)

[TheNewGM]

Just here to say the same thing again. I don't know how educated fans are smarter then the people running this team. It is quite pathetic. Been saying this since 2015. since 2012 really. Yet its the same team, same results. Brutal waste of a decade. Brain dead management.

[jyu]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:38 PM, AnthonyG said:

Why didn't Luongo go on LTIR in FLA? Pretty sure he just straight up retired and f***ed both organizations that invested everything in him. He could have easily gone LTIR no matter what. He screwed everyone, so F*** Luongo.

Why trade for a guy who was going to retire, he clearly chose not to go the LTIR route, thats on Lou.

 

Ya how much time does that give a GM with a flat cap, zero certainty on the future implications of COVID and its effect on the salary cap moving forward, it was going to remain flat, then rise very slowly. Working out the logistics of Toffoli, Tanev or Markstrom had to be calculated in the upcoming RFA negotations that that far higher priority, they are the future, Toffoli, Tanev and Markstrom were placeholders.

 

Time line of events -  Toffoli acquired in February - March 4th Cap announced to rise between 84-88mil - March 12th COVID shuts down NHL - cap no longer expected to rise.

 

Flordia convinced Luongo to retire outright rather than go on the LTIR. I recall Luongo offered to go on the LTIR. 
 

The cap-recapture for Florida was minimal at 500k or so and they figured to deal with it rather than maneuvering around the LTIR and not being able to bank cap space over the season. 

[jyu]

On 12/13/2022 at 1:53 AM, AnthonyG said:

This will be a bit lengthy but bear with me. 

 

I feel like I've been pretty clear on the stressing "patience" I've also agreed that the owner is an issue and a major one at that. You say you know all these things, but you are kind of dismissing these things you already know? Lack thereof top 3 picks and time to build a prospect pool. Which those teams I mentioned all weren't pressured to make kneejerk reactions. Or they had the benefit of drafting 1st overall or top 3, multiple times. You and other fans have this expectation that its easy to build at team...outside the top 5. No one is parting ways with top 5 picks, so how do you get into the top 5? There is no guarantee you'll get 1st overall or a top 3, with a bottom 5 finish. Look at Buffalo when they openly admitted they were tanking, how'd that work out? Play out the season, practice and preach development, focus on what you can control (player development and good habits) rather than what is out of your control (being out of a playoff position). Just because you're out of a playoff contention, doesn't mean you should stop trying to win games and start promoting bad habits.

 

We're 5 years removed from the end of the Sedin era. Out of all the "assets" if you want to call them that, from the 2011 team, one player returned a 1st round pick... A late 1st. How do you expect to be so far ahead right now, when we had no prospects to start with, 8 years behind on talent and still needed to build a team. Where do you want to start? The farm or the house? Maybe establish your home first so you can tend to your farm? That takes years of drafting to replace that core, then we need to build up the farm. You need to be a little realistic here, you and every other fan complaining about a prospect pool, we have only had 8 drafts under Benning and there were zero prospects to begin with. PLUS WE NEEDED TO REPLACE THE WHOLE BLOODY TEAM. Fans are expecting a rebuilt contending roster and a farm full of talent in under 8 years... It's ridiculous, its nonsensical. Pick one or the other and be patient. Let the kids figure out at the NHL level, or let them develop elsewhere. Not only that, the Sedin era ended 5 seasons ago and this season hasn't even finished. We're capped out with placement holders. First, we had to fill every hole on the roster with everybody we moved out, Bieksa, Hansen, Burrows, Kesler, Twins retiring etc... Thats a lot of bodies out and only 1 1st round pick in return..... Doesn't give a GM much of a head start.

 

We're just starting to catch up with the talent deficit we were in from 2005 onward. This is where you guys are just being way too impatient and ignorant. We had MANY issues to address, it doesnt happen overnight. 

 

Here's how a rebuild works 

1) trade assets for picks (Kesler, Bieksa, Hansen, Burrows etc etc....not much of a haul for these guys 1st+2 young players, 2nd, 4th+ prospect, prospect.)

2) draft your core - may take a handful of years (2014-2019)

3a) find place holders (Over the past 5 years, Beagle, Roussel, Sutter, Schaller, Pearson, Myers, OEL, Garland - These are/were not our core players)

3b) develop your picks in a stable environment either in the minors or in the NHL with a lot leadership/experience (Beagle, Schenn, Pearson) and heavy veteran presence (Schenn, Beagle, Roussel, OEL, Sutter, Pearson, Myers) - we are just now getting to the point where we are filling the farm. We've surrounded our players with vets and trying to build the culture.

4) insert talent as you move along, slowly transitioning out of placeholders, utilizing ELCs 

5) continue to draft and develop players in the minors

6) your new core that was drafted and spent a couple years drafting now hold spots while you farm grows

7) move players out and acquire more picks

Rinse and repeat. 

 

We've hardly got to the point of filling the farm system. We're just now drafting guys, checking them out at the NHL level and sending them back down, like Podz was just sent down, or how Rathbone hasn't cracked the team yet.

 

I'm going to use Colorado as comparable to our current situation. From 2007-2014 Colorado made playoffs 3 times in an 8 year span. They went from a dominant team in the early 2000's to a struggling team with steadily declining players, low in value and not a whole lot of serious talent in the system. Similar to how we went from cup contenders to struggling, to kinda making the playoffs here and there, to missing the last 2 seasons and this season isnt starting off too well either. 2 playoff appearances in 7 years. 

They got nothing for Sakic, Brunette, Hejduk and Stastny - who was one helluva player. That didnt really help Colorado now did it? Just like we didnt get much for our vets, or nothing for the twins.

They got a 2nd for JML

2 prospects for Wolski

They drafted ROR and Duchene, Shattenkirk and they moved all 3 of these guys only a few years down the road. All 3 of these guys had tremendous value in a trade or on the ice. Similar to how Miller or Bo have great value on the ice or in a trade, Kuzmenko, we have young talented players that can be used to retool, just like Colorado did.

You know what COL got for Shattenkirk? Erik Johnson, a f***ing anchor contract and a 1st round pick that amounted to nothing and Jay Mclement? STL got Shattenkirk and a 2nd. Kinda seems like an OEL trade to me, with all the b***ing and complaining about OEL and his contract. He's a far better dman than Johnson and especially at how much cap % EJ took up, its only a few % different, then his extension which was a terrible contract by Sakic to hand out. Either way they were still able to win a cup with a bad contract.

 

Anyway back to COL and how its comparable to our situation.

 

After drafting Mackinnon and Landeskog, it made ROR and Duchene expendable, they parted ways with those two and retooled around Mackinnon and Landeskog similar to how we'll have to part ways with Horvat and possibly some others to retool. Colorado got Byram, Girard, Compher, Grigorenko and Zadorov in those 2 trades. They flipped Zadorov and got virtually nothing in return, Grigorenko lost for nothing and kept Compher.... 

 

While all of this was going on, Colorado was still missing playoffs and dickin around retooling.

Then in 2017-18 they made the playoffs for the first time in 3 years and their 4th appearance in 12. 

 

They had a few really high draft picks and a whole bunch outside the top 10. They didn't accumulate a ton of "draft capital" 

1 additional 1st round pick in a 10-year span and that was in the Duchene trade 2 years prior. 

 

In 2019 they moved their top offensive defensemen Tyson Barrie and got Kadri. 

 

Does any of this sound like a rebuild or a constant retool?

 

Do these moves seem a little familiar? Maybe not a ton right now, but in the next couple years, there will be more similarities.

 

The one difference is, we are where Colorado was around 2014-16. We have some trades to make and a few years of drafting to get to where Colorado is today. Its a matter of patience. 

 

Does this sound somewhat relatable????? Go look at Colorado's path. Go look at ours, go look at moves, contracts handed out, playoff appearances, overall standings, etc etc.

Only difference is COL is 3-4 years ahead of where we are and that's only because that started 3-4 years prior to us. That doesn't mean our paths are parallel, with strong development and a few trades, we can turn things around quite quickly. We will get there.

Good post. 

 

I remember thinking in 2011 that if we win a cup in, I could live with the team sucking for the next 20 years. Well, we did not win the cup but the suffering is lasting a while, 11 years to be exact and with the way things are going, the suffering will last a few more years at the minimum.

 

The cost of going all-in to build a cup contending team is exactly what led us this path of having very little roster players and no prospect depth in the farm. I hope we never take an all-in approach ever again if and when we get back to being a good team again.

 

Regarding the comparison to Colorado, I do see some similarities but the players that we have accumulated are not as high end as their core 4 of Mac, Raantanen, Landeskog, and Makar. 

 

At one point it felt like our core 4 of Petey, Boeser, Horvat, and Hughes could measure up to the Avs core 4. But now we know that's not going to happen.

 

So we ahve to build up the core 4 again through the draft. Petey and Hughes to remain, Boeser and Horvat are out.

 

In terms of time line, the Avs drafted their core over 8 year span: Landeskog in 2011, Mac in 2013, Raantanen in 2015, and Makar in 2018. The gap is 2-3 years between the core players. Even Tampa drafted their core over 7 year span: 2008 (Stamkos); 2009 (Hedman); 2011 (Kucherov); 2014 (Point).

 

We got Petey and Hughes in 2017 and 2018. The other two guys must arrive shortly for us to have a chance to win with Petey and Hughes. Winning the lottery and drafting Bedard or Fantilli or that Russian guy would be the best gift from the hockey gods to the Canucks fans. 

 

 

[AnthonyG]

2 hours ago, jyu said:

Good post. 

 

I remember thinking in 2011 that if we win a cup in, I could live with the team sucking for the next 20 years. Well, we did not win the cup but the suffering is lasting a while, 11 years to be exact and with the way things are going, the suffering will last a few more years at the minimum.

 

The cost of going all-in to build a cup contending team is exactly what led us this path of having very little roster players and no prospect depth in the farm. I hope we never take an all-in approach ever again if and when we get back to being a good team again.

 

Regarding the comparison to Colorado, I do see some similarities but the players that we have accumulated are not as high end as their core 4 of Mac, Raantanen, Landeskog, and Makar. 

 

At one point it felt like our core 4 of Petey, Boeser, Horvat, and Hughes could measure up to the Avs core 4. But now we know that's not going to happen.

 

So we ahve to build up the core 4 again through the draft. Petey and Hughes to remain, Boeser and Horvat are out.

 

In terms of time line, the Avs drafted their core over 8 year span: Landeskog in 2011, Mac in 2013, Raantanen in 2015, and Makar in 2018. The gap is 2-3 years between the core players. Even Tampa drafted their core over 7 year span: 2008 (Stamkos); 2009 (Hedman); 2011 (Kucherov); 2014 (Point).

 

We got Petey and Hughes in 2017 and 2018. The other two guys must arrive shortly for us to have a chance to win with Petey and Hughes. Winning the lottery and drafting Bedard or Fantilli or that Russian guy would be the best gift from the hockey gods to the Canucks fans. 

 

 

And a Horvat+Boeser trade would be similar to that of a Duchene/ROR trade. A move to retool around the new core. Horvat would net a pretty big return. Boeser may fetch a 2nd and a 5th, but nonetheless it would clear cap, which would help us retain Kuzmenko.

I’m lookin forward to adding a very highly talented player at the draft. This might be that “Makar” moment where Colorado has one more bad season and winds up with Makar.

 

My only concern with moving Horvat, is that is going to be a massive loss. Not so much his goal scoring, but his work in face-off dot, will be so incredibly hard to find again. That takes years of development and honing in on your craft/technique/timing and just overall strength to win draws. That will be the hardest thing to replace

[jyu]

22 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

And a Horvat+Boeser trade would be similar to that of a Duchene/ROR trade. A move to retool around the new core. Horvat would net a pretty big return. Boeser may fetch a 2nd and a 5th, but nonetheless it would clear cap, which would help us retain Kuzmenko.

I’m lookin forward to adding a very highly talented player at the draft. This might be that “Makar” moment where Colorado has one more bad season and winds up with Makar.

 

My only concern with moving Horvat, is that is going to be a massive loss. Not so much his goal scoring, but his work in face-off dot, will be so incredibly hard to find again. That takes years of development and honing in on your craft/technique/timing and just overall strength to win draws. That will be the hardest thing to replace

Yep, I hope we get our Makar moment in 2023. That would speed things up dramatically. 

 

As for Horvat, the same was probably said about O'Reilly when the Avs traded him away. O'Reilly was a better defensive player than Horvat.

 

Horvat is a good player but I think we have a need for a better offensive player to take over the bulk of the scoring duties. If not that, another two way player like Pettersson. Bo is in a no man's land, not elite offensively nor defensively.