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[Non-Proposal] Schneider For First


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#1 ABNuck

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 01:41 PM

Can we put the Schneider for a first rounder proposals to bed? This is NOT the year for a first rounder. There are no high level first round picks available this year that match up with neither the year we selected Cory nor last year nor even next year. Therefore any deal for this year's first o/a or any other high first is just trading down compared to Cory...quite frankly he's worth more. I mentioned it in another thread and I'll say it again...Nail Yakupov is NOT Pavel Bure V2.0...he's more like Valeri Bure V2.0...the hype is all media related. The ONLY one's touting him so high is the media...did you see anyone scrambling to move one of their impending RFA/UFA players to Columbus for him? No...that's because GM's around the league know his true value. This year's 1st RD Top 10 are equal to last year's bottom 5 and top 2nd round 5...in most year's these guys might not even crack the first day. Compare 2 Rebels players...Matt Dumba (touted to go top 10 this year) vs. Landon Ferraro (slipped to Detroit at 32nd on '09). Ferraro holds a bigger NHL toolbag than Dumba (skill, mindset etc.) but was selected over 20+ players later in a deeper year. The point is...this just ain't the year to trade the value we have in Cory for what...a future 3rd liner or MAYBE, just MAYBE a future 2nd liner?

As much as I'd hate to see him go...I feel the better deal overall (present and future) would be to keep Cory and move Lu. I'm fairly certain the only teams that Lu would agree to a trade to would be Tampa or back to Florida...and both need him and would probably pay fairly decently to get him (ie/ Matthias and Gudbranson + picks from FLA or Connolly and Lee + picks from T-Bay). In other words I think a signed Lu is more valuable to trade (greater return) than an un-signed Cory (we'd just get lesser value than he's worth cause GM's can just play wait and see...plus there's the Rask factor...which also de-values Cory). I realize that my last statement is pointing out the obvious...but sometimes it needs to be stated within the right context to help some fans understand the real and full implications of their proposals.

So to summarize...Cory for a 1st this year = No thanks.

#2 ken kaniff

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

well you dont know if nail will be an allstar or a decent player. its a gamble, and trading for first round pick overall usually gets done at the draft because draft lottery and everything and final standings. anyways you have no idea if any prospects will turn out the way they are hyped but saying you already know they will be at best a 2nd liner is a stupid thing to say. personally i would want to trade schneider for a proven good prospect such as hedman from tampa
RIP rick
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#3 Pears

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 02:11 PM

If Cbj offered you the first overall pick for Schneider straight up, you would be insane to not take it.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#4 Guest_The Brown Burrows_*

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:32 PM

The 2007 draft is comparable to this draft in terms of talent but we have to trade him unless we decide to trade Luongo instead.

That year wasn't even that bad: http://www.nhl.com/i...position==

I wouldn't mind a lot of those players...

#5 ABNuck

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:15 PM

Now that we know it's Edmonton...would you really trade Schneider to them?

Anyways, as stated above Schneider is a far more valuable player than this year's first. And to the guy above that compared this year's draft to 2007...wow...really? Here's the last 7 drafts compared to this year (with the points in their final year of Junior:

2005 CROSBY 168 PTS IN 62 GAMES
2006 JOHNSON (D-MAN SELECTED FIRST O/A)
2007 KANE 145 PTS IN 58 GAMES
2008 STAMKOS 105 PTS IN 61 GAMES
2009 TAVARES 104 PTS IN 56 GAMES
2010 HALL 106 PTS IN 57 GAMES
2011 NUGENT-HOPKINS 106 PTS IN 69 GAMES
2012 YAKUPOV 69 PTS IN 42 GAMES

In 2007 Yakupov compares roughly to Zach Hamill taken 8th overall and developing very slowly (5 pts in 20 NHL games). As for this year comparing to a much lower bottom 10 from last year...check out Matt Puempel taken 24th O/A. His final year of Junior he went 69 pts in 55 games. That's comparing this year's 1st to last year's 24th...this year is all hype. I'd look for a good depth player from this year's draft rather than a superstar like Kane or Stamkos or any other recent first O/A. So again...no I would NOT trade Cory for this year's first...next year's maybe, but not this year.

#6 CaNuCkSLoUiE23

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:38 AM

If Cbj offered you the first overall pick for Schneider straight up, you would be insane to not take it.

So a proven NHL starter, Jennings Trophy winner, top 5 in GAA in the NHL this year, arguably the best backup in the league.... For an player who has not proven in the NHL yet? Not to mention some first overall draftees have become busts.

#7 Mack Attack

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:23 AM

Now that we know it's Edmonton...would you really trade Schneider to them?

Anyways, as stated above Schneider is a far more valuable player than this year's first. And to the guy above that compared this year's draft to 2007...wow...really? Here's the last 7 drafts compared to this year (with the points in their final year of Junior:

2005 CROSBY 168 PTS IN 62 GAMES
2006 JOHNSON (D-MAN SELECTED FIRST O/A)
2007 KANE 145 PTS IN 58 GAMES
2008 STAMKOS 105 PTS IN 61 GAMES
2009 TAVARES 104 PTS IN 56 GAMES
2010 HALL 106 PTS IN 57 GAMES
2011 NUGENT-HOPKINS 106 PTS IN 69 GAMES
2012 YAKUPOV 69 PTS IN 42 GAMES

In 2007 Yakupov compares roughly to Zach Hamill taken 8th overall and developing very slowly (5 pts in 20 NHL games). As for this year comparing to a much lower bottom 10 from last year...check out Matt Puempel taken 24th O/A. His final year of Junior he went 69 pts in 55 games. That's comparing this year's 1st to last year's 24th...this year is all hype. I'd look for a good depth player from this year's draft rather than a superstar like Kane or Stamkos or any other recent first O/A. So again...no I would NOT trade Cory for this year's first...next year's maybe, but not this year.


So? He was injured for some of the year. He also had 101 points the season before which puts him right up there with most of the players you mentioned.

Edited by Mack Attack, 12 April 2012 - 12:23 AM.


#8 Kass

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:16 AM

Now that we know it's Edmonton...would you really trade Schneider to them?

Anyways, as stated above Schneider is a far more valuable player than this year's first. And to the guy above that compared this year's draft to 2007...wow...really? Here's the last 7 drafts compared to this year (with the points in their final year of Junior:

2005 CROSBY 168 PTS IN 62 GAMES
2006 JOHNSON (D-MAN SELECTED FIRST O/A)
2007 KANE 145 PTS IN 58 GAMES
2008 STAMKOS 105 PTS IN 61 GAMES
2009 TAVARES 104 PTS IN 56 GAMES
2010 HALL 106 PTS IN 57 GAMES
2011 NUGENT-HOPKINS 106 PTS IN 69 GAMES
2011 YAKUPOV 101 PTS IN 65 GAMES
2012 YAKUPOV 69 PTS IN 42 GAMES



hmm the year before he put up a better pace then RNH did... and this year he is on pace for 106 points in 65 games... So he is on pace for more points than RNH in less games... Are you saying you wouldn't want RNH for Schneider?

#9 Kubrick

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:36 PM

Would you rather have tampas two first rounders or Columbus' second overall?
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#10 Gollumpus

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 04:02 PM

Would you rather have tampas two first rounders or Columbus' second overall?


If I could get a good roster player and/or a very promising prospect to go with those picks, then I'm for TB's picks... or, as long as Gillis drafts a promising d-man with the CBJ pick, then I'm for that.

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#11 Mack Attack

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:03 PM

If I could get a good roster player and/or a very promising prospect to go with those picks, then I'm for TB's picks... or, as long as Gillis drafts a promising d-man with the CBJ pick, then I'm for that.

regards,
G.


I dunno, I think the old "best player available" is the way to go. Most prospects take a few years to develop, so drafting based on current needs is kind of silly when the needs could be entirely different by that time. Teams should choose the player they think is mostly likely to develop into the best NHLer. Besides, it isn't a guarantee that top picks will turn into top players.

Just for fun, here's a look at some of the top dmen (no order):

Nicklas Lidstrom- drafted 53rd overall
Shea Weber- drafted 49th overall
Zdeno Chara- drafted 56th overall
Alex Pietrangelo- drafted 4th overall
Duncan Keith- drafted 54th overall
Kris Letang- drafted 62nd overall
Alex Edler- drafted 91st overall
Drew Doughty- drafted 2nd overall
Keith Yandle- drafted 105th overall
Ryan Suter- drafted 7th overall

I know it's an arbitrary list and there are certainly some other players you could throw into the mix, but just goes to show how few high drafted players go onto be stars. There's luck involved.

#12 mr_long1990

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:30 PM

If you look at the other 29 team and their goaltending situation:

Anaheim: Got Hiller as their #1.
Boston: Got Thomas and Rask as their #1 and 1A.
Buffalo: Got Miller and Enroth. They're set in goal for a long, long time.
Calgary: Got Kiprusoff as their #1 for a couple more years (unless Calgary decides to blow it up).
Carolina: Got Ward as their #1 until 2015/16.
Chicago: Got Crawford as their #1 for two more years, but I don't think the Canucks will make a trade with them.
Colorado: Traded the 1st overall pick for Varlamov as their #1, so they won't want to trade for another goalie.
Columbus: With Mason as their #1 right now, they need goaltending help.
Dallas: Got Lehtonen for one more year.
Detroit: Got Howard as their #1 for one more year.
Edmonton: Got Dubnyk as their #1, and played really well in the regular season.
Florida: Has a highly-touted prospect in Jacob Markstrom who is ready for the NHL.
Los Angeles: Got Quick and Bernier as their #1 and 1A.
Minnesota: Got Backstrom for one more year. Harding is a UFA this year as well.
Montreal: Got Price as their #1.
Nashville: Got Rinne long-term. Lindback's pretty good too.
New Jersey: Brodeur's getting old and, with no goaltending prospects coming up, they need a goalie soon.
New York Islanders: Nabokov resigned for one more year, but if DiPietro doesn't come back and regains his form, they'll need a goalie.
New York Rangers: Got Lundqvist as their #1.
Ottawa: Got Anderson as their #1 until 2014/15.
Philadelphia: Got Bryzgalov and Bobrovsky as their #1 and 1A.
Phoenix: Got Smith as their #1 for one more year. I don't think he'll be going anywhere since his success seems to be directly related to Dave Tippett.
Pittsburgh: Got Fleury as their #1 long-term.
San Jose: Got Niemi as their #1 until 2014/15.
St. Louis: Got Halak and Elliott as their #1 and 1A. Need I say more?
Tampa Bay: I don't think Tokarski is ready for the NHL yet.
Toronto: Gustavsson is a UFA this year. Can they trust Reimer?
Washington: Even though Vokoun's a UFA, they got Neuvirth and Holtby. They don't need a goalie.
Winnipeg: Got Pavelec as their #1.

In red are teams that MIGHT be willing to give up some assets for Schneider. If you eliminate the Northwest Division teams, there are only six teams left:

Columbus
Dallas
New Jersey
New York Islanders
Tampa Bay
Toronto

JOE THORNTON 19

#13 Mack Attack

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:19 AM

If you look at the other 29 team and their goaltending situation:

Anaheim: Got Hiller as their #1.
Boston: Got Thomas and Rask as their #1 and 1A.
Buffalo: Got Miller and Enroth. They're set in goal for a long, long time.
Calgary: Got Kiprusoff as their #1 for a couple more years (unless Calgary decides to blow it up).
Carolina: Got Ward as their #1 until 2015/16.
Chicago: Got Crawford as their #1 for two more years, but I don't think the Canucks will make a trade with them.
Colorado: Traded the 1st overall pick for Varlamov as their #1, so they won't want to trade for another goalie.
Columbus: With Mason as their #1 right now, they need goaltending help.
Dallas: Got Lehtonen for one more year.
Detroit: Got Howard as their #1 for one more year.
Edmonton: Got Dubnyk as their #1, and played really well in the regular season.
Florida: Has a highly-touted prospect in Jacob Markstrom who is ready for the NHL.
Los Angeles: Got Quick and Bernier as their #1 and 1A.
Minnesota: Got Backstrom for one more year. Harding is a UFA this year as well.
Montreal: Got Price as their #1.
Nashville: Got Rinne long-term. Lindback's pretty good too.
New Jersey: Brodeur's getting old and, with no goaltending prospects coming up, they need a goalie soon.
New York Islanders: Nabokov resigned for one more year, but if DiPietro doesn't come back and regains his form, they'll need a goalie.
New York Rangers: Got Lundqvist as their #1.
Ottawa: Got Anderson as their #1 until 2014/15.
Philadelphia: Got Bryzgalov and Bobrovsky as their #1 and 1A.
Phoenix: Got Smith as their #1 for one more year. I don't think he'll be going anywhere since his success seems to be directly related to Dave Tippett.
Pittsburgh: Got Fleury as their #1 long-term.
San Jose: Got Niemi as their #1 until 2014/15.
St. Louis: Got Halak and Elliott as their #1 and 1A. Need I say more?
Tampa Bay: I don't think Tokarski is ready for the NHL yet.
Toronto: Gustavsson is a UFA this year. Can they trust Reimer?
Washington: Even though Vokoun's a UFA, they got Neuvirth and Holtby. They don't need a goalie.
Winnipeg: Got Pavelec as their #1.

In red are teams that MIGHT be willing to give up some assets for Schneider. If you eliminate the Northwest Division teams, there are only six teams left:

Columbus
Dallas
New Jersey
New York Islanders
Tampa Bay
Toronto


All it takes is one GM to overpay.




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