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#1 hockeynoob

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:11 PM

I've only been watching Hockey for a couple of years, but some people are talking crazy on these boards. So even with limited knowledge, I thought I'd try to clear some things up:

1) Kassian was not a failed trade: The Kassian trade was a long term investment. Kassian is a year younger than Hodgson, and is also on a very short leash. Putting Kassian on a leash is like telling Hodgson not to score goals. It's stopping him from what he does best. Furthermore, Hodgson ASKED to be traded. You can't keep a guy around for very long if he doesn't even want to be on your team. There are even rumors that he was causing problems in the locker room, and apparently Bieksa had to sit down and have a chat with him at one point. So anyone saying that Hodgson was the future of our franchise has to give their head a shake. Sure he didn't make a huge difference this year, but we had to let Hodgson go (how do you keep a guy around that doesnt want to be around).

2) Mike Gillis should NOT be fired: The trades Mike Gillis made this year, in hindsight, have been mediocre. But back when they were being made most people thought that they were great trades. The Booth trade was considered to be an absolute STEAL for Mike Gillis. Most analysts were saying that after we acquired Kassian and Pahlsson we were more fit for a cup run. He has signed a lot of players at great prices, and IMHO has recovered from the mistakes he's made.

3) Ryan Kesler had a bad season for a reason: I was talking to my doctor who is a huge hockey fan. He said that what players do over the summer is bulk up. They gain a lot of weight and then casually lose it over the season. Kesler, due to his injury, was unable to do this. He couldn't bulk up and couldnt practice in the preseason. Remember that in the previous offseason he practiced 100 slapshots, 100 wrist shots, and 100 backhands every day, and he couldn't do that this offseason (that's an insane amount of shots). Moreover, Kesler had to play a more defensive role this season, due to Hodgson being a, lets face it, defensive liability. Last year, the third line was our shutdown line. This year, the third line was a scoring line, leaving some of the defense to the second line. Sure, after Hodgson was traded his scoring was still abysmal, but give the guy some time. Don't jump the gun and trade him, only to watch him win a cup with another team.

4) Edler should NOT be traded: Prior to this series, in which Edler was ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL, Edler was seen as a future Norris contender and the future defenseman of this franchise. Saying that he should be traded is absolute crap. His poor play was a confidence issue which only snowballed throughout the series. To me, that is a coaching issue. People point to Edler's lack of power play production, but NO ONE on the power play has been productive. The guy has one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and has always been seen as a top prospect. Give him time. This is like the Bieksa thing all over again. Now imagine if we traded Bieksa just because fans had their panties in a knot?

5) Not signing Ehrhoff was the RIGHT choice: People say we should have signed Ehrhoff instead of Bieksa. That's bullsh*t. Ehrhoff was a defensive liability, and after last years playoffs a lot of people even wanted him traded. Sure he's missed on the power play. But the fact is that he wanted WAY too much, and couldnt have signed him even if we wanted to and let Bieksa go. There's no way we could have justified paying the guy that much. It would be another Luongo contract all over again.

6) The LA Kings are NOT a bad team: they have lost a tonne of games by 1 goal this season. Since acquiring Carter (?) their goals per game have risen dramatically. It wouldn't be unfair to say that if they had Carter all season long they would be at the top of their division, and be a very very strong team. Hell, they were picked by some to be conference final favourites this season. (However, we still should have beat them, but losing to them isn't like losing to a regular 8th seed)

7) I think AV has to go: He's a great coach. I love the guy. He's a jack adams winner, and has led us to the Stanley Cup Final. But if we get swept, I think a message has to be sent throughout the organization and AV has to be fired. He has been massively outcoached this series, and has been outcoached in other series as well. He failed to make necessary adjustments, and unfortunately, if we get swept, I think AVs time is up. A team as talented as the Canucks should go further than the third round. HOWEVER, if we don't get swept, I think we should keep him until the beginning of next season, and see how things go. If they don't go fairly well, then change things up. But sometimes a coaching changeup sends a message to the players that this organization won't stand for mediocre play.

8) Manny has to go: I love Manny. He's a great guy and a great leader. It is INCREDIBLY unfortunate that he had to have that accident with his eye. Unfortunately he is getting paid WAY too much just for faceoff duty, and his overall play isn't nearly as good as it used to be. We have Pahlsson and Lapierre that can both do that. I know he has a NTC, but I'm sure he would waive it if asked, and I'm sure he would understand. Sure, he is a great locker room guy, but in our 'player led' locker room, where players call out other guys for mediocre play, how can Manny call someone else out if he's not playing well himself? (that goes for a lot of guys on the Canucks actually)

Now go ahead and flame me with your CDC insanity, I just feel this had to be said.

Edited by hockeynoob, 16 April 2012 - 01:24 PM.


#2 Canucks-12

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:14 PM

Finally someone smart here.
i 100% agree with you.

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#3 Stark

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:14 PM

I actually agree with you on everything except the Manny part. He brings more to the team through his leadership and etc. There are aspects to the team where we, as fans, cannot see and his locker room presence is pretty important. Other than that, good post!
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#4 Sandro17

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:15 PM

Kassian was a failed trade because it wasn't done in the off season. I liked the trade at first but now that were in the play-offs and its obvious that we would rather have Cody as compared to Kass in our current situation, obviously the correct thing to have done would have been to wait for the off season before trading for Kass.

#5 250Integra

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:16 PM

Kassian was a failed trade sorry.

We could've moved Hodgson for an immediate-impact player, but instead we invested in a toothless ogre who has done absolutely nothing (literally), and who many thought would be a force in the playoffs :lol: :lol:

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#6 Dogbyte

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:22 PM

Kassian was a failed trade because it wasn't done in the off season. I liked the trade at first but now that were in the play-offs and its obvious that we would rather have Cody as compared to Kass in our current situation, obviously the correct thing to have done would have been to wait for the off season before trading for Kass.

I agree with trade based on the information we've been given. I would have liked to see Cody here for one last run though. Easy to say in hindsight.

We are just getting outworked by the Kings and we probalby should have tried to play mistake free hockey starting at game one instead of game 3. We probably would have won one of those first couple games if we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot. EDLER !!!

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#7 3KBieksa

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:33 PM

I've only been watching Hockey for a couple of years, but some people are talking crazy on these boards. So even with limited knowledge, I thought I'd try to clear some things up:

1) Kassian was not a failed trade: The Kassian trade was a long term investment. Kassian is a year younger than Hodgson, and is also on a very short leash. Putting Kassian on a leash is like telling Hodgson not to score goals. It's stopping him from what he does best. Furthermore, Hodgson ASKED to be traded. You can't keep a guy around for very long if he doesn't even want to be on your team. There are even rumors that he was causing problems in the locker room, and apparently Bieksa had to sit down and have a chat with him at one point. So anyone saying that Hodgson was the future of our franchise has to give their head a shake. Sure he didn't make a huge difference this year, but we had to let Hodgson go (how do you keep a guy around that doesnt want to be around).

2) Mike Gillis should NOT be fired: The trades Mike Gillis made this year, in hindsight, have been mediocre. But back when they were being made most people thought that they were great trades. The Booth trade was considered to be an absolute STEAL for Mike Gillis. Most analysts were saying that after we acquired Kassian and Pahlsson we were more fit for a cup run. He has signed a lot of players at great prices, and IMHO has recovered from the mistakes he's made.

3) Ryan Kesler had a bad season for a reason: I was talking to my doctor who is a huge hockey fan. He said that what players do over the summer is bulk up. They gain a lot of weight and then casually lose it over the season. Kesler, due to his injury, was unable to do this. He couldn't bulk up and couldnt practice in the preseason. Remember that in the previous offseason he practiced 100 slapshots, 100 wrist shots, and 100 backhands every day, and he couldn't do that this offseason (that's an insane amount of shots). Moreover, Kesler had to play a more defensive role this season, due to Hodgson being a, lets face it, defensive liability. Last year, the third line was our shutdown line. This year, the third line was a scoring line, leaving some of the defense to the second line. Sure, after Hodgson was traded his scoring was still abysmal, but give the guy some time. Don't jump the gun and trade him, only to watch him win a cup with another team.

4) Edler should NOT be traded: Prior to this series, in which Edler was ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL, Edler was seen as a future Norris contender and the future defenseman of this franchise. Saying that he should be traded is absolute crap. His poor play was a confidence issue which only snowballed throughout the series. To me, that is a coaching issue. People point to Edler's lack of power play production, but NO ONE on the power play has been productive. The guy has one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and has always been seen as a top prospect. Give him time. This is like the Bieksa thing all over again. Now imagine if we traded Bieksa just because fans had their panties in a knot?

5) Not signing Ehrhoff was the RIGHT choice: People say we should have signed Ehrhoff instead of Bieksa. That's bullsh*t. Ehrhoff was a defensive liability, and after last years playoffs a lot of people even wanted him traded. Sure he's missed on the power play. But the fact is that he wanted WAY too much, and couldnt have signed him even if we wanted to and let Bieksa go. There's no way we could have justified paying the guy that much. It would be another Luongo contract all over again.

6) The LA Kings are NOT a bad team: they have lost a tonne of games by 1 goal this season. Since acquiring Carter (?) their goals per game have risen dramatically. It wouldn't be unfair to say that if they had Carter all season long they would be at the top of their division, and be a very very strong team. Hell, they were picked by some to be conference final favourites this season. (However, we still should have beat them, but losing to them isn't like losing to a regular 8th seed)

7) I think AV has to go: He's a great coach. I love the guy. He's a jack adams winner, and has led us to the Stanley Cup Final. But if we get swept, I think a message has to be sent throughout the organization and AV has to be fired. He has been massively outcoached this series, and has been outcoached in other series as well. He failed to make necessary adjustments, and unfortunately, if we get swept, I think AVs time is up. A team as talented as the Canucks should go further than the third round. HOWEVER, if we don't get swept, I think we should keep him until the beginning of next season, and see how things go. If they don't go fairly well, then change things up. But sometimes a coaching changeup sends a message to the players that this organization won't stand for mediocre play.

8) Manny has to go: I love Manny. He's a great guy and a great leader. It is INCREDIBLY unfortunate that he had to have that accident with his eye. Unfortunately he is getting paid WAY too much just for faceoff duty, and his overall play isn't nearly as good as it used to be. We have Pahlsson and Lapierre that can both do that. I know he has a NTC, but I'm sure he would waive it if asked, and I'm sure he would understand. Sure, he is a great locker room guy, but in our 'player led' locker room, where players call out other guys for mediocre play, how can Manny call someone else out if he's not playing well himself? (that goes for a lot of guys on the Canucks actually)

Now go ahead and flame me with your CDC insanity, I just feel this had to be said.


1. Kassian trade was a fail. We wanted to get the damn cup, giving a 30 points forward up for a prospect that didn't contribute much is just a fail. If MG thinks that they need Kassian's body, MG could easily dealt Mayray over for Kassian. The kassian trade could be make in off season, then during the playoff rush we could use Coho's offensive skills. But look at us now, we have Kassian that have TOI of 3 minutes. Its not a bad trade but fail at the timing part

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#8 snolan

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:36 PM

Agree on all points. Would like to add though

1) mayray should be gone or signed at a lesser amount and confined to a 3rd/4th line role. Plays hard, is fast but his hands/offense is so bad he pretty much kills a play with a weak shot to the net or curls to the boards and falls down on a consitant basis.

2) As Sandro said, the Kassian/Hodsgon trade was not the right deal for a trade deadline, but does still have potential in the long run as people saying Kassian has done nothing are right, but him carrying the tema wasn't the general idea behind his acquisition..

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#9 PlanTheParade

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:37 PM

I've only been watching Hockey for a couple of years, but some people are talking crazy on these boards. So even with limited knowledge, I thought I'd try to clear some things up:

1) Kassian was not a failed trade: The Kassian trade was a long term investment. Kassian is a year younger than Hodgson, and is also on a very short leash. Putting Kassian on a leash is like telling Hodgson not to score goals. It's stopping him from what he does best. Furthermore, Hodgson ASKED to be traded. You can't keep a guy around for very long if he doesn't even want to be on your team. There are even rumors that he was causing problems in the locker room, and apparently Bieksa had to sit down and have a chat with him at one point. So anyone saying that Hodgson was the future of our franchise has to give their head a shake. Sure he didn't make a huge difference this year, but we had to let Hodgson go (how do you keep a guy around that doesnt want to be around).

1) Agree here. This is fuelled by the fact that AV is not the kind of coach who trusts his players easily.


2) Mike Gillis should NOT be fired: The trades Mike Gillis made this year, in hindsight, have been mediocre. But back when they were being made most people thought that they were great trades. The Booth trade was considered to be an absolute STEAL for Mike Gillis. Most analysts were saying that after we acquired Kassian and Pahlsson we were more fit for a cup run. He has signed a lot of players at great prices, and IMHO has recovered from the mistakes he's made.

2) I still think the Booth trade was a steal. I'm a little nervous about recent transactions but I'd give him a bit more time. Albeit there aren't any real big signings/trades for a while after Schneider.


3) Ryan Kesler had a bad season for a reason: I was talking to my doctor who is a huge hockey fan. He said that what players do over the summer is bulk up. They gain a lot of weight and then casually lose it over the season. Kesler, due to his injury, was unable to do this. He couldn't bulk up and couldnt practice in the preseason. Moreover, Kesler had to play a more defensive role this season, due to Hodgson being a, lets face it, defensive liability. Last year, the third line was our shutdown line. This year, the third line was a scoring line, leaving some of the defense to the second line. Sure, after Hodgson was traded his scoring was still abysmal, but give the guy some time. Don't jump the gun and trade him, only to watch him win a cup with another team.

3) Agree. Excellent points.


4) Edler should NOT be traded: Prior to this series, in which Edler was ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL, Edler was seen as a future Norris contender and the future defenseman of this franchise. Saying that he should be traded is absolute crap. His poor play was a confidence issue which only snowballed throughout the series. To me, that is a coaching issue. People point to Edler's lack of power play production, but NO ONE on the power play has been productive. The guy has one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and has always been seen as a top prospect. Give him time. This is like the Bieksa thing all over again. Now imagine if we traded Bieksa just because fans had their panties in a knot?

5) Agree here, but his upside is a lot better than Bieksa's.


5) Not signing Ehrhoff was the RIGHT choice: People say we should have signed Ehrhoff instead of Bieksa. That's bullsh*t. Ehrhoff was a defensive liability, and after last years playoffs a lot of people even wanted him traded. Sure he's missed on the power play. But the fact is that he wanted WAY too much, and couldnt have signed him even if we wanted to and let Bieksa go. There's no way we could have justified paying the guy that much. It would be another Luongo contract all over again.

5) Massive disagreement. Bieksa has the privilege of playing with Hamhuis. ANYONE playing with Hamhuis (see Tanev) would be considered shutdown pair. Bieksa cashed in big time by playing with Hamhuis last year and definitely isn't worth anything that he got paid. He's probably worth 3.8 - 4.2 or so. Ehrhoff may not have gelled with the team as well but there is no doubting his offensive prowess and abilities on the PP. I'd have been much happier paying Ehrhoff 5.2 over 3 or 4 years (if that was available at all). Hamhuis may be more valuable but defencemen like Ehrhoff are far and few in between. At the most crucial time of the year it's proving to be costly. (see inability to clear our zone leading to turnovers/goals)


6) The LA Kings are NOT a bad team: they have lost a tonne of games by 1 goal this season. Since acquiring Carter (?) their goals per game have risen dramatically. It wouldn't be unfair to say that if they had Carter all season long they would be at the top of their division, and be a very very strong team. Hell, they were picked by some to be conference final favourites this season. (However, we still should have beat them, but losing to them isn't like losing to a regular 8th seed)

6) Agree, but that's no excuse to go down 3-0.


7) I think AV has to go: He's a great coach. I love the guy. He's a jack adams winner, and has led us to the Stanley Cup Final. But if we get swept, I think a message has to be sent throughout the organization and AV has to be fired. He has been massively outcoached this series, and has been outcoached in other series as well. He failed to make necessary adjustments, and unfortunately, if we get swept, I think AVs time is up. A team as talented as the Canucks should go further than the third round. HOWEVER, if we don't get swept, I think we should keep him until the beginning of next season, and see how things go. If they don't go fairly well, then change things up. But sometimes a coaching changeup sends a message to the players that this organization won't stand for mediocre play.

7) I have long held praise for AV but it's time. He leans hard on the system, which although has been successful during his tenure, is quite exploitable, as seen last June and now. He has little trust for his players (Ballard, Hodgson, Kassian) and is quite inflexible with different approaches to the game IMO. He needs to let guys play to their potential in order to maximize their output. ie. Kassian can't play afraid of making mistakes, Ballard needs to be given the green light. Whether MacT or whoever else is a suitable replacement is another issue.

8) Manny has to go: I love Manny. He's a great guy and a great leader. It is INCREDIBLY unfortunate that he had to have that accident with his eye. Unfortunately he is getting paid WAY too much just for faceoff duty, and his overall play isn't nearly as good as it used to be. We have Pahlsson and Lapierre that can both do that. I know he has a NTC, but I'm sure he would waive it if asked, and I'm sure he would understand.

8) Agree. I thought he could hold his own with defensive responsibilities but this series it has been nothing but missed assignments and turnovers (with the one in game 2 leading to the winning goal) in the defensive zone. He is afraid to get hit now and often gets mixed up when on the ice as a second centreman for the draw. That being said, he has a family and home in Vancouver and there is nil chance that he will be asked to waive his NTC given the course of his past two seasons and his involvement with the team in a leadership capacity and in the community as well.


Now go ahead and flame me with your CDC insanity, I just feel this had to be said.


Edited by PlanTheParade, 16 April 2012 - 01:39 PM.


#10 Trebreh

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:39 PM

I actually agree with you on everything except the Manny part. He brings more to the team through his leadership and etc. There are aspects to the team where we, as fans, cannot see and his locker room presence is pretty important. Other than that, good post!


Please, ive heard this same argument over and over again when defending him. Ryan Johnson had leadership and was great in the locker room aswell, should we offer him a contract??

Did his locker room presence gave the Canucks a boost in the SCF?? does his leadership score goals? is him being classy worth 3rd line player money? Im sorry but there is no room for a guy like him who plays a small role in a stanley cup contender.

#11 JelloIce

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:39 PM

I agree with trade based on the information we've been given. I would have liked to see Cody here for one last run though. Easy to say in hindsight.

We are just getting outworked by the Kings and we probalby should have tried to play mistake free hockey starting at game one instead of game 3. We probably would have won one of those first couple games if we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot. EDLER !!!


You mean, shoot the other guy in the foot, right? And have the puck bounce back the other way. :bigblush:

The Manny thing is going to be a tough one. With the culture that Gillis has developed on this team, trading away someone like Manny who is really likeable guy, such a class act, a great leader, and just an overall good person, whose only shortcoming is on the ice, is DEFINITELY going to send a message if any moves involving Manny happens.

It's going to show if Gillis has a relentless enough attitude to shape this team into a Cup winning team no matter what the costs, or if he's not willing to do it if he has to step on some toes.

#12 hockeynoob

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:50 PM

It would suck to see Manny traded, but you have to remember this is a business. Aquilini signs the checks for this team so that they win. Don't you think he would have wanted more money-making-playoff games?

#13 Stark

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:50 PM

Please, ive heard this same argument over and over again when defending him. Ryan Johnson had leadership and was great in the locker room aswell, should we offer him a contract??

Did his locker room presence gave the Canucks a boost in the SCF?? does his leadership score goals? is him being classy worth 3rd line player money? Im sorry but there is no room for a guy like him who plays a small role in a stanley cup contender.


I don't know if you've ever played sports, but having that locker room presence is pretty important. There's a mental side to the game to that is just as important as everything else. His contract may not be worth his play, but his ability to win us those defensive role faceoffs are pretty important too. Pahlsson has been just as invisible so far in the playoffs.
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#14 Trebreh

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:59 PM

I don't know if you've ever played sports, but having that locker room presence is pretty important. There's a mental side to the game to that is just as important as everything else. His contract may not be worth his play, but his ability to win us those defensive role faceoffs are pretty important too. Pahlsson has been just as invisible so far in the playoffs.


Yes I've played sports (Basketball) And asoon as the game starts those locker room precense and his 'leadership' means nothing if he cant play.

Win faceoffs, the team fails to retrieve the puck, what does Malhotra do? he's a liability when the actualy play starts. He only take faceoffs! It's a game within the game, its does not have any factor on wether you win or lose games.

Pahlsson is just as good in the faceoff as Malhotra and actually throws his weight around AND most inportantly, can play a regular shift.

Pahlsson invisible? blame AV for that, MG acquired him to be the 'shutdown' guy, yet he has no balls to play him against the top lines.

#15 CCCP

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:00 PM

I've only been watching Hockey for a couple of years, but some people are talking crazy on these boards. So even with limited knowledge, I thought I'd try to clear some things up:

1) Kassian was not a failed trade: The Kassian trade was a long term investment. Kassian is a year younger than Hodgson, and is also on a very short leash. Putting Kassian on a leash is like telling Hodgson not to score goals. It's stopping him from what he does best. Furthermore, Hodgson ASKED to be traded. You can't keep a guy around for very long if he doesn't even want to be on your team. There are even rumors that he was causing problems in the locker room, and apparently Bieksa had to sit down and have a chat with him at one point. So anyone saying that Hodgson was the future of our franchise has to give their head a shake. Sure he didn't make a huge difference this year, but we had to let Hodgson go (how do you keep a guy around that doesnt want to be around).

2) Mike Gillis should NOT be fired: The trades Mike Gillis made this year, in hindsight, have been mediocre. But back when they were being made most people thought that they were great trades. The Booth trade was considered to be an absolute STEAL for Mike Gillis. Most analysts were saying that after we acquired Kassian and Pahlsson we were more fit for a cup run. He has signed a lot of players at great prices, and IMHO has recovered from the mistakes he's made.

3) Ryan Kesler had a bad season for a reason: I was talking to my doctor who is a huge hockey fan. He said that what players do over the summer is bulk up. They gain a lot of weight and then casually lose it over the season. Kesler, due to his injury, was unable to do this. He couldn't bulk up and couldnt practice in the preseason. Remember that in the previous offseason he practiced 100 slapshots, 100 wrist shots, and 100 backhands every day, and he couldn't do that this offseason (that's an insane amount of shots). Moreover, Kesler had to play a more defensive role this season, due to Hodgson being a, lets face it, defensive liability. Last year, the third line was our shutdown line. This year, the third line was a scoring line, leaving some of the defense to the second line. Sure, after Hodgson was traded his scoring was still abysmal, but give the guy some time. Don't jump the gun and trade him, only to watch him win a cup with another team.

4) Edler should NOT be traded: Prior to this series, in which Edler was ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL, Edler was seen as a future Norris contender and the future defenseman of this franchise. Saying that he should be traded is absolute crap. His poor play was a confidence issue which only snowballed throughout the series. To me, that is a coaching issue. People point to Edler's lack of power play production, but NO ONE on the power play has been productive. The guy has one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and has always been seen as a top prospect. Give him time. This is like the Bieksa thing all over again. Now imagine if we traded Bieksa just because fans had their panties in a knot?

5) Not signing Ehrhoff was the RIGHT choice: People say we should have signed Ehrhoff instead of Bieksa. That's bullsh*t. Ehrhoff was a defensive liability, and after last years playoffs a lot of people even wanted him traded. Sure he's missed on the power play. But the fact is that he wanted WAY too much, and couldnt have signed him even if we wanted to and let Bieksa go. There's no way we could have justified paying the guy that much. It would be another Luongo contract all over again.

6) The LA Kings are NOT a bad team: they have lost a tonne of games by 1 goal this season. Since acquiring Carter (?) their goals per game have risen dramatically. It wouldn't be unfair to say that if they had Carter all season long they would be at the top of their division, and be a very very strong team. Hell, they were picked by some to be conference final favourites this season. (However, we still should have beat them, but losing to them isn't like losing to a regular 8th seed)

7) I think AV has to go: He's a great coach. I love the guy. He's a jack adams winner, and has led us to the Stanley Cup Final. But if we get swept, I think a message has to be sent throughout the organization and AV has to be fired. He has been massively outcoached this series, and has been outcoached in other series as well. He failed to make necessary adjustments, and unfortunately, if we get swept, I think AVs time is up. A team as talented as the Canucks should go further than the third round. HOWEVER, if we don't get swept, I think we should keep him until the beginning of next season, and see how things go. If they don't go fairly well, then change things up. But sometimes a coaching changeup sends a message to the players that this organization won't stand for mediocre play.

8) Manny has to go: I love Manny. He's a great guy and a great leader. It is INCREDIBLY unfortunate that he had to have that accident with his eye. Unfortunately he is getting paid WAY too much just for faceoff duty, and his overall play isn't nearly as good as it used to be. We have Pahlsson and Lapierre that can both do that. I know he has a NTC, but I'm sure he would waive it if asked, and I'm sure he would understand. Sure, he is a great locker room guy, but in our 'player led' locker room, where players call out other guys for mediocre play, how can Manny call someone else out if he's not playing well himself? (that goes for a lot of guys on the Canucks actually)

Now go ahead and flame me with your CDC insanity, I just feel this had to be said.

AGREE 100%!!!!

#16 Tangelos

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

it's easy to make excuses (kesler sucked for a reason, kings are good etc.) but the fact is if we lose in the first round it will be an utter embarrassment. If I recall, the flyers went to the finals in 2010 then got swept in 2011. They made changes in leadership and it seems to have sparked them. I hope mg makes some drastic changes this off season. Obviously the sedins are our franchise guys but everyone else except for burrows (cap friendly), hansen ( the STUD) is up for grabs.

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#17 Stark

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

Yes I've played sports (Basketball) And asoon as the game starts those locker room precense and his 'leadership' means nothing if he cant play.

Win faceoffs, the team fails to retrieve the puck, what does Malhotra do? he's a liability when the actualy play starts. He only take faceoffs! It's a game within the game, its does not have any factor on wether you win or lose games.

Pahlsson is just as good in the faceoff as Malhotra and actually throws his weight around AND most inportantly, can play a regular shift.

Pahlsson invisible? blame AV for that, MG acquired him to be the 'shutdown' guy, yet he has no balls to play him against the top lines.


I disagree, there are intermissions and the team needs guys that can speak up in the locker room like Kesler, Bieksa, and Manny. Faceoffs are a pretty important factor, it could mean the different between obtaining a key scoring chance, or preventing the other team's goal. Everything factors in to whether you win or lose a game.

Pahlsson is good in the circle, but definitely not as good as Malhotra, even with his eye injury. Pahlsson also cost us in the circle last game because he lost the draw, and the Kings scored on the ensuing play which proved to be the game winner. So it really does play a factor in the game.

AV has made a lot of mistakes, and yes Pahlsson hasn't been playing very much against the other teams' top lines but when he does he seems slow and lacking effort. If it wasn't for Hansen, that line would be just as ineffective as our 4th line at the moment.
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#18 Stark

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:12 PM

it's easy to make excuses (kesler sucked for a reason, kings are good etc.) but the fact is if we lose in the first round it will be an utter embarrassment. If I recall, the flyers went to the finals in 2010 then got swept in 2011. They made changes in leadership and it seems to have sparked them. I hope mg makes some drastic changes this off season. Obviously the sedins are our franchise guys but everyone else except for burrows (cap friendly), hansen ( the STUD) is up for grabs.


The Flyers made changes for various reasons, including getting rid of cap space for Bryz. And Richards and Carter being cancerous to the team (apparently). They could afford to do so because they have Giroux, Briere, JVR, etc. Their young guys have really stepped up, and they also got Jagr for pretty cheap.
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#19 Trebreh

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:19 PM

I disagree, there are intermissions and the team needs guys that can speak up in the locker room like Kesler, Bieksa, and Manny. Faceoffs are a pretty important factor, it could mean the different between obtaining a key scoring chance, or preventing the other team's goal. Everything factors in to whether you win or lose a game.

Pahlsson is good in the circle, but definitely not as good as Malhotra, even with his eye injury. Pahlsson also cost us in the circle last game because he lost the draw, and the Kings scored on the ensuing play which proved to be the game winner. So it really does play a factor in the game.

AV has made a lot of mistakes, and yes Pahlsson hasn't been playing very much against the other teams' top lines but when he does he seems slow and lacking effort. If it wasn't for Hansen, that line would be just as ineffective as our 4th line at the moment.


Im so tired of that argument that were just gonna have to agree to disagree i guess.

The Kings entire 4th line cost 1.9m

Malhotra is getting paid 2.5m to take faceoffs.

Nolan and King are both rookies, they dont have the 'intangibles' that Malhotra supposedly has but they seem to be doing fine.

Like i've said before, look at all the Top contenders this year (NYR,PHI,NSH,DET etc.) tell me ONE team that has a one dimensional player making 2.5m.. just one team and ill rest my case.

Edited by Han Damhuis, 16 April 2012 - 02:20 PM.


#20 Tangelos

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:21 PM

The Flyers made changes for various reasons, including getting rid of cap space for Bryz. And Richards and Carter being cancerous to the team (apparently). They could afford to do so because they have Giroux, Briere, JVR, etc. Their young guys have really stepped up, and they also got Jagr for pretty cheap.


Also the fact that they got swept in round 2 didnt help. All im saying is (if we lose the series) some changes need to be made. The sharks have kept their core guys intact for 5 yrs or so and look where that got them.

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#21 hockeynoob

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:46 PM

I think doing a firesale of the core would be utterly senseless. If they fail next year, then consider moving the core around. But this year? No f*cking way

#22 Stark

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:04 PM

Im so tired of that argument that were just gonna have to agree to disagree i guess.

The Kings entire 4th line cost 1.9m

Malhotra is getting paid 2.5m to take faceoffs.

Nolan and King are both rookies, they dont have the 'intangibles' that Malhotra supposedly has but they seem to be doing fine.

Like i've said before, look at all the Top contenders this year (NYR,PHI,NSH,DET etc.) tell me ONE team that has a one dimensional player making 2.5m.. just one team and ill rest my case.


I already said that for his play (as of this year), his salary is too high. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's an expendable player. Our bottom 6 is much better than LA's though.

And Malhotra isn't a one dimensional player. He's a very effective defensive forward. His injury may have thrown him off his game, but I see improvement compared to the beginning of the season. If you watch carefully, there are little things that he does that makes him strong defensively.

I'd prefer Manny over a lot of other teams' 4th liners, though his contract is too high. I'd say that the only team with a better 4th line would be Philly and maybe Detroit.
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#23 giXXer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:21 PM

Kassian trade = gillies getting fired

Honestly I don't care what people say about kassian him being good in the next 2-3 years, what's gonna happen in the next 2-3 to the team we can't even imagine. We needed help in playoffs this year, since we had a window of opportunity, why gillies didn't trade Hodgson in the off season is beyond me and for the very same reason he should get fired.

#24 justsayin

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:26 PM

I agree with the op with the exception of getting rid of Manny. Should he go? Maybe. There are other players who have stepped up to fill his role.

The problem is twofold:
1. He has a NTC.
2. Sadly, he is damaged goods. What team would really want him?

#25 Durl Dixsun

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:31 PM

i think u forgot something

9.) Raymond Sucks and should not be Re-signed: No further comments needed.

Edited by Badassian9, 16 April 2012 - 03:31 PM.

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#26 Protag

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

Hodgson honestly would not have made much a difference in this series. Would he have helped out the offense? Yes. Would he have been nice to slot in in the second PP unit? Yes.

But in the grand scheme of things, it honestly would not have made any difference in the prediciment the Canucks find themselves in right now. Like it or not, Hodgson was a defensive liability, and in the playoffs, AV clearly doesnt trust players who are a question mark in the D-zone. He really wouldnt have gotten much ice time to begin with - especially with this team. Not to mention Hodgson was a bit of a cancer in the dressing room. The Canucks problem is the fact that their top players arent producing. If Edler keeps playing like this and if Kesler and Hank cant generate anything, we're still down in the series, with or without Cody.

#27 steviewonder20

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:51 PM

I've only been watching Hockey for a couple of years, but some people are talking crazy on these boards. So even with limited knowledge, I thought I'd try to clear some things up:

1) Kassian was not a failed trade: The Kassian trade was a long term investment. Kassian is a year younger than Hodgson, and is also on a very short leash. Putting Kassian on a leash is like telling Hodgson not to score goals. It's stopping him from what he does best. Furthermore, Hodgson ASKED to be traded. You can't keep a guy around for very long if he doesn't even want to be on your team. There are even rumors that he was causing problems in the locker room, and apparently Bieksa had to sit down and have a chat with him at one point. So anyone saying that Hodgson was the future of our franchise has to give their head a shake. Sure he didn't make a huge difference this year, but we had to let Hodgson go (how do you keep a guy around that doesnt want to be around).

2) Mike Gillis should NOT be fired: The trades Mike Gillis made this year, in hindsight, have been mediocre. But back when they were being made most people thought that they were great trades. The Booth trade was considered to be an absolute STEAL for Mike Gillis. Most analysts were saying that after we acquired Kassian and Pahlsson we were more fit for a cup run. He has signed a lot of players at great prices, and IMHO has recovered from the mistakes he's made.

3) Ryan Kesler had a bad season for a reason: I was talking to my doctor who is a huge hockey fan. He said that what players do over the summer is bulk up. They gain a lot of weight and then casually lose it over the season. Kesler, due to his injury, was unable to do this. He couldn't bulk up and couldnt practice in the preseason. Remember that in the previous offseason he practiced 100 slapshots, 100 wrist shots, and 100 backhands every day, and he couldn't do that this offseason (that's an insane amount of shots). Moreover, Kesler had to play a more defensive role this season, due to Hodgson being a, lets face it, defensive liability. Last year, the third line was our shutdown line. This year, the third line was a scoring line, leaving some of the defense to the second line. Sure, after Hodgson was traded his scoring was still abysmal, but give the guy some time. Don't jump the gun and trade him, only to watch him win a cup with another team.

4) Edler should NOT be traded: Prior to this series, in which Edler was ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL, Edler was seen as a future Norris contender and the future defenseman of this franchise. Saying that he should be traded is absolute crap. His poor play was a confidence issue which only snowballed throughout the series. To me, that is a coaching issue. People point to Edler's lack of power play production, but NO ONE on the power play has been productive. The guy has one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and has always been seen as a top prospect. Give him time. This is like the Bieksa thing all over again. Now imagine if we traded Bieksa just because fans had their panties in a knot?

5) Not signing Ehrhoff was the RIGHT choice: People say we should have signed Ehrhoff instead of Bieksa. That's bullsh*t. Ehrhoff was a defensive liability, and after last years playoffs a lot of people even wanted him traded. Sure he's missed on the power play. But the fact is that he wanted WAY too much, and couldnt have signed him even if we wanted to and let Bieksa go. There's no way we could have justified paying the guy that much. It would be another Luongo contract all over again.

6) The LA Kings are NOT a bad team: they have lost a tonne of games by 1 goal this season. Since acquiring Carter (?) their goals per game have risen dramatically. It wouldn't be unfair to say that if they had Carter all season long they would be at the top of their division, and be a very very strong team. Hell, they were picked by some to be conference final favourites this season. (However, we still should have beat them, but losing to them isn't like losing to a regular 8th seed)

7) I think AV has to go: He's a great coach. I love the guy. He's a jack adams winner, and has led us to the Stanley Cup Final. But if we get swept, I think a message has to be sent throughout the organization and AV has to be fired. He has been massively outcoached this series, and has been outcoached in other series as well. He failed to make necessary adjustments, and unfortunately, if we get swept, I think AVs time is up. A team as talented as the Canucks should go further than the third round. HOWEVER, if we don't get swept, I think we should keep him until the beginning of next season, and see how things go. If they don't go fairly well, then change things up. But sometimes a coaching changeup sends a message to the players that this organization won't stand for mediocre play.

8) Manny has to go: I love Manny. He's a great guy and a great leader. It is INCREDIBLY unfortunate that he had to have that accident with his eye. Unfortunately he is getting paid WAY too much just for faceoff duty, and his overall play isn't nearly as good as it used to be. We have Pahlsson and Lapierre that can both do that. I know he has a NTC, but I'm sure he would waive it if asked, and I'm sure he would understand. Sure, he is a great locker room guy, but in our 'player led' locker room, where players call out other guys for mediocre play, how can Manny call someone else out if he's not playing well himself? (that goes for a lot of guys on the Canucks actually)

Now go ahead and flame me with your CDC insanity, I just feel this had to be said.


Good post. There is plenty of blame to spread around, but hindsight is always 20/20.

I think Gillis is a very bright and competent GM who knows the teams' weaknesses and tries to address them. However, he has made major mistakes with Lu's long contract, not giving Torres that extra year he wanted, and perhaps in letting Samuelson go. We have to wait a few years to see if the Hodgson/Kassian trade rivals the Cam Neely fiasco. I do love the acquisitions of Lapierre and Higgins. Gillis should not be fired (yet).

AV. I have a number of issues with AV from his constant line juggling, changing defensive pairings, playing favorites (Ballard in the dog house while Raymond and Rome can do no wrong), and worst of all he is too slow to adapt in a playoff series so he is out-coached. Why isn't Lappy back on the first line and Raymond in the press box? It's time that AV is fired and goes back to Montreal.

We do need a bigger, meaner D. We can't win the SC with our current line-up and a number of folks need to go. I don't get how Edler was voted our number 1 D simply because he can score goals; Hamhuis is far more reliable and steady. Yes, we need a Weber/Suter, etc.

Lastly, while I am not a Lu hater, I think Schneids has more upside and is more consistent. I would love to see Lu wave his NTC and go to Florida, and see Schneids/Lack as our goalie tandem. When Lu is "on" he is great, and when he is "off" he stinks. We are not losing this series because of him, but I always wonder which Lu will show up.

#28 TheCammer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:51 PM

1. Kassian trade was a fail. We wanted to get the damn cup, giving a 30 points forward up for a prospect that didn't contribute much is just a fail. If MG thinks that they need Kassian's body, MG could easily dealt Mayray over for Kassian. The kassian trade could be make in off season, then during the playoff rush we could use Coho's offensive skills. But look at us now, we have Kassian that have TOI of 3 minutes. Its not a bad trade but fail at the timing part

Kassian for Raymond? Are you kidding me? Stay off your bong.
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#29 TheCammer

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:55 PM

I've only been watching Hockey for a couple of years, but some people are talking crazy on these boards. So even with limited knowledge, I thought I'd try to clear some things up:

1) Kassian was not a failed trade: The Kassian trade was a long term investment. Kassian is a year younger than Hodgson, and is also on a very short leash. Putting Kassian on a leash is like telling Hodgson not to score goals. It's stopping him from what he does best. Furthermore, Hodgson ASKED to be traded. You can't keep a guy around for very long if he doesn't even want to be on your team. There are even rumors that he was causing problems in the locker room, and apparently Bieksa had to sit down and have a chat with him at one point. So anyone saying that Hodgson was the future of our franchise has to give their head a shake. Sure he didn't make a huge difference this year, but we had to let Hodgson go (how do you keep a guy around that doesnt want to be around).

2) Mike Gillis should NOT be fired: The trades Mike Gillis made this year, in hindsight, have been mediocre. But back when they were being made most people thought that they were great trades. The Booth trade was considered to be an absolute STEAL for Mike Gillis. Most analysts were saying that after we acquired Kassian and Pahlsson we were more fit for a cup run. He has signed a lot of players at great prices, and IMHO has recovered from the mistakes he's made.

3) Ryan Kesler had a bad season for a reason: I was talking to my doctor who is a huge hockey fan. He said that what players do over the summer is bulk up. They gain a lot of weight and then casually lose it over the season. Kesler, due to his injury, was unable to do this. He couldn't bulk up and couldnt practice in the preseason. Remember that in the previous offseason he practiced 100 slapshots, 100 wrist shots, and 100 backhands every day, and he couldn't do that this offseason (that's an insane amount of shots). Moreover, Kesler had to play a more defensive role this season, due to Hodgson being a, lets face it, defensive liability. Last year, the third line was our shutdown line. This year, the third line was a scoring line, leaving some of the defense to the second line. Sure, after Hodgson was traded his scoring was still abysmal, but give the guy some time. Don't jump the gun and trade him, only to watch him win a cup with another team.

4) Edler should NOT be traded: Prior to this series, in which Edler was ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL, Edler was seen as a future Norris contender and the future defenseman of this franchise. Saying that he should be traded is absolute crap. His poor play was a confidence issue which only snowballed throughout the series. To me, that is a coaching issue. People point to Edler's lack of power play production, but NO ONE on the power play has been productive. The guy has one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and has always been seen as a top prospect. Give him time. This is like the Bieksa thing all over again. Now imagine if we traded Bieksa just because fans had their panties in a knot?

5) Not signing Ehrhoff was the RIGHT choice: People say we should have signed Ehrhoff instead of Bieksa. That's bullsh*t. Ehrhoff was a defensive liability, and after last years playoffs a lot of people even wanted him traded. Sure he's missed on the power play. But the fact is that he wanted WAY too much, and couldnt have signed him even if we wanted to and let Bieksa go. There's no way we could have justified paying the guy that much. It would be another Luongo contract all over again.

6) The LA Kings are NOT a bad team: they have lost a tonne of games by 1 goal this season. Since acquiring Carter (?) their goals per game have risen dramatically. It wouldn't be unfair to say that if they had Carter all season long they would be at the top of their division, and be a very very strong team. Hell, they were picked by some to be conference final favourites this season. (However, we still should have beat them, but losing to them isn't like losing to a regular 8th seed)

7) I think AV has to go: He's a great coach. I love the guy. He's a jack adams winner, and has led us to the Stanley Cup Final. But if we get swept, I think a message has to be sent throughout the organization and AV has to be fired. He has been massively outcoached this series, and has been outcoached in other series as well. He failed to make necessary adjustments, and unfortunately, if we get swept, I think AVs time is up. A team as talented as the Canucks should go further than the third round. HOWEVER, if we don't get swept, I think we should keep him until the beginning of next season, and see how things go. If they don't go fairly well, then change things up. But sometimes a coaching changeup sends a message to the players that this organization won't stand for mediocre play.

8) Manny has to go: I love Manny. He's a great guy and a great leader. It is INCREDIBLY unfortunate that he had to have that accident with his eye. Unfortunately he is getting paid WAY too much just for faceoff duty, and his overall play isn't nearly as good as it used to be. We have Pahlsson and Lapierre that can both do that. I know he has a NTC, but I'm sure he would waive it if asked, and I'm sure he would understand. Sure, he is a great locker room guy, but in our 'player led' locker room, where players call out other guys for mediocre play, how can Manny call someone else out if he's not playing well himself? (that goes for a lot of guys on the Canucks actually)

Now go ahead and flame me with your CDC insanity, I just feel this had to be said.


Good post hockeynoob. I'm with you on everything except Manny and the comment on Lui's contract. Maholtra brings plenty of the intangibles to this team. His play has slipped a bit but he also did not get the benefit of a full off-season of training.
Lui's contract was not bad as it kept his cap hit relatively low for a goalie of his calibre, I agree we didn't want to hand a similar one to "Errorhoff".
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#30 hockeynoob

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 04:00 PM

Kassian trade = gillies getting fired

Honestly I don't care what people say about kassian him being good in the next 2-3 years, what's gonna happen in the next 2-3 to the team we can't even imagine. We needed help in playoffs this year, since we had a window of opportunity, why gillies didn't trade Hodgson in the off season is beyond me and for the very same reason he should get fired.


You lost your credibility when you couldn't spell the General Manager's name.

Edited by hockeynoob, 16 April 2012 - 04:00 PM.





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