Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Pretending I live in BC and not Ontario.. what decisions she has made would directly affect my life in such a manner where I'm forced by any tangible degree into her religious credo? I despise religion but it seems a few people here have an inability of understanding that everyone is going to have moral mannerisms, whether guided by religion or some other joke, that someone will personally, subjectively find disagreeable or even downright reprehensible, but that's really inconsequential if their policies are not actually implementing those things, it's more of a personal attack about subjective beliefs rather than an objective concern for the populace at large, remembering that the populace isn't just made up of you and your beliefs. Raising this issue is making a big deal out of nothing, and can only be seen as an ad hominem waste of time until something can be substantiated that this person actually has or intends to use their position as a policy maker for a diverse populace to implement their own religious beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 "I believe that God wants me to be president." “I believe that God wants everybody to be free....And that’s one part of my foreign policy.” Now, I fully realize that the point you've raised is regarding Canadian politics...but there have been tangible examples of a leader's foolish faith and beliefs affecting their policies....and if people in the US don't wake up..should Romney be elected??? It is going to be one hell of a lot more prevalent and more of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Big difference between Romney and Clark, he has nothing to do with this debate. Romney plans on having religion based laws, such as getting rid of legalized abortion and banning gay marriage. Clark isn't making religion based laws. The two aren't even remotely comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If you read the whole post...in the first sentence, I specifically mentioned that I was "fully aware that he was referring to Canadian politics", I was citing references of instances in the past where policy was affected by religious beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 And I was merely stating how that had nothing to do with this discussion since Clark isn't making those kind of policies. Go ahead and bring up issue with Romney if you want, you may have a case there, but he has nothing to do with what Clark is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 "Stalin's firing squad in 1937 because they belonged to an invisible minority. " Might i ask how they were discovered while invisible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 "Stalin's firing squad in 1937 because they belonged to an invisible minority. " Might i ask how they were discovered while invisible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 But she's not doing that? She's just playing up to Christian voters that would usually vote for a more Conservative party. Pretty simple campaign logic. If she starts to try and pass laws based on Christian values, then maybe it would be an issue. But she isn't, so it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 "Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt." - Julius Caesar "Men willingly believe what they wish to be true." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rampage Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Most of my family was exterminated like vermin by Stalin's firing squad in 1937 because they belonged to an invisible minority. We can't even visit anyone because they were all thrown in mass graves and no one knows where they are. Oppression is nothing new here, but despite our tragic history I don't go around waving flags and being "overt" about my affiliations . Nor do I find it appropriate to use the oppression of my ancestors as a giant soap box for own agenda. As for the gay pride thing, it's like a rags to riches story. You were in rags all your life and suddenly you win the lottery so you go on and buy the tackiest most expensive junk to show off how much money you have now. You just can't be modest about it. Nobody likes that kind of showing off. If you are able to come out now as never before, that is great, but it is still only one part of you and often many make it the only part about them. Basically you determine how much of a big deal it is to others by how much of a big deal it is to you. It's come to the point where quite a lot of it is imposing. Like meeting someone and they shake your hand and say "Hi, I am Christy and I am a lesbian." Uhm, okay. But I'm not sure how that is going to help me order lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Pretending I live in BC and not Ontario.. what decisions she has made would directly affect my life in such a manner where I'm forced by any tangible degree into her religious credo? I despise religion but it seems a few people here have an inability of understanding that everyone is going to have moral mannerisms, whether guided by religion or some other joke, that someone will personally, subjectively find disagreeable or even downright reprehensible, but that's really inconsequential if their policies are not actually implementing those things, it's more of a personal attack about subjective beliefs rather than an objective concern for the populace at large, remembering that the populace isn't just made up of you and your beliefs. Raising this issue is making a big deal out of nothing, and can only be seen as an ad hominem waste of time until something can be substantiated that this person actually has or intends to use their position as a policy maker for a diverse populace to implement their own religious beliefs. Until then, who gives a **** about what they think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armada Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Fair enough. I still maintain that I think religion and government should stay as far away from each other as humanly possible though, if only to eliminate any chance of a policy being affected by it. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic Wehrmacht Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Yet it has been a huge influence on North American politics since the dawn of both our countries.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaBestPlaceOnEarth Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The Bible is full of wisdom that's relevant for anyone. I for one am glad that public officials are still able to turn to scripture for guidance. It'll be a sad day indeed when the secular thought police are able to tell our leaders what literature they can or cannot draw inspiration from in their lives and work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 The Bible is full of wisdom that's relevant for anyone. I for one am glad that public officials are still able to turn to scripture for guidance. It'll be a sad day indeed when the secular thought police are able to tell our leaders what literature they can or cannot draw inspiration from in their lives and work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajusta Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Atheist: "Keep religion away from politics, please" Theist: "Sure, we won't force others into believing" Atheist: "How about your values? Keep them out of politics please" Theist: "So I can't believe in religion?" Atheist: "Yes you can, you can believe in it, just don't believe in them" Theist: "So, I don't have religious freedom?" Atheist: "You do, you can do whatever you want!" Theist: "And I choose to believe in right morals and right principles, found in MY belief!" Atheist: "Sorry, that isn't keeping religion out of politics you see" Theist: "Then what values and morals should I believe in?" Atheist: "Believe in what Atheists believe in" Theist: "And what exactly is that? What moral standard do all Atheists hold to?" Atheist: "We just make sure we're happy" Theist: "You're happy? So what makes you happy" Atheist: "Things that benefit us, helps us, contributes to us, etc etc." Theist: "So if something didn't make you happy, you wouldn't do it?" Atheist: "Exactly!" Theist: "So what makes you happy should apply for everyone?" Atheist: "No.. of course not. Not everyone is like me." Theist: "So we should make everyone happy to their own accord?" Atheist: "Yes!" Theist: "Is that the golden rule, to make sure you are happy?" Atheist: "Yes!" Theist: "What if one person's happiness is another person's sorrow?" Atheist: "Then too bad" Theist: "Then there's no consistency?" Atheist: "Not really, we go with the flow" Theist: "What if being happy requires the world to shift all its resources to you, making others poor and hungry? Is that okay?" Atheist: (INSERT YOUR ANSWER HERE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Atheist: "Keep religion away from politics, please" Theist: "Sure, we won't force others into believing" Atheist: "How about your values? Keep them out of politics please" Theist: "So I can't believe in religion?" Atheist: "Yes you can, you can believe in it, just don't believe in them" Theist: "So, I don't have religious freedom?" Atheist: "You do, you can do whatever you want!" Theist: "And I choose to believe in right morals and right principles, found in MY belief!" Atheist: "Sorry, that isn't keeping religion out of politics you see" Theist: "Then what values and morals should I believe in?" Atheist: "Believe in what Atheists believe in" Theist: "And what exactly is that? What moral standard do all Atheists hold to?" Atheist: "We just make sure we're happy" Theist: "You're happy? So what makes you happy" Atheist: "Things that benefit us, helps us, contributes to us, etc etc." Theist: "So if something didn't make you happy, you wouldn't do it?" Atheist: "Exactly!" Theist: "So what makes you happy should apply for everyone?" Atheist: "No.. of course not. Not everyone is like me." Theist: "So we should make everyone happy to their own accord?" Atheist: "Yes!" Theist: "Is that the golden rule, to make sure you are happy?" Atheist: "Yes!" Theist: "What if one person's happiness is another person's sorrow?" Atheist: "Then too bad" Theist: "Then there's no consistency?" Atheist: "Not really, we go with the flow" Theist: "What if being happy requires the world to shift all its resources to you, making others poor and hungry? Is that okay?" Atheist: (INSERT YOUR ANSWER HERE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The Bible is also full of things like slavery, genocide, homophobia, sexism, rape, polygamy, murder, bigotry and child abuse...many which are either practiced by your God, or not disavowed by your God when they are practiced. Defend that when you defend the Bible for all its divine wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajusta Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hooray for strawmen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 This is the epitome of the ignorance towards religion. Atheists, without affirming their own set of moral foundation, sets out to reject the beliefs of others. Imagine a world where nobody really cares about anyone. What a painful and broken world that will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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