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Texas executes mentally impaired inmate.


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#91 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:26 PM

If you're going to mention it may as well provide your 'ample' new reports as evidence. In comparison to this case of course. I'm curious to see the similarities you speak of.


Use the Google. It's all there.

You keep trying to bring my occupation into this as mockery. I'm sure that if you had the guts to mention yours I could have a few laughs as well. But then again so many insults over the Internet would undoubtably be silenced in person. I love having real conversations in person where people are too afraid to say what's really on their mind. Best to keep it behind the keyboard.


If you're a lawyer then I'm the Pope.
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#92 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:50 PM

Use the Google. It's all there.



If you're a lawyer then I'm the Pope.


and i thought you were a good guy , i will now have to refer to you as "your assholiness". :lol:
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#93 Monty

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:50 PM

Kill somebody, you forfeit your right to live. Just my opinion.
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i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#94 Special Ed

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:53 PM

Use the Google. It's all there.



If you're a lawyer then I'm the Pope.


Yawn. Keep dodging. I'm mobile now and have a bit of work to do. I'm not going to bother getting into a children vrs mentally challenged adults with you. Since you seem more intent on playing kids games here. Keep up the predictable keyboard insults though. You will earn that sticker soon.

Edited by Special Ed, 08 August 2012 - 03:54 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#95 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:00 PM

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Yawn. Keep dodging. I'm mobile now and have a bit of work to do. I'm not going to bother getting into a children vrs mentally challenged adults with you. Since you seem more intent on playing kids games here. Keep up the predictable keyboard insults though. You will earn that sticker soon.


Said the pot....
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#96 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:09 PM

How can you tell when a lawyer is lying? When his lips are moving. B)
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#97 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:17 PM

How can you tell when a lawyer is lying? When his lips are moving. B)


Edit - nvm....mixed you up with another of the devil's spawn.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 08 August 2012 - 04:39 PM.

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#98 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:18 PM

Yawn. Keep dodging. I'm mobile now and have a bit of work to do. I'm not going to bother getting into a children vrs mentally challenged adults with you. Since you seem more intent on playing kids games here. Keep up the predictable keyboard insults though. You will earn that sticker soon.


Is Vancouver the pilot city for Starbucks on Wheels? Cuz that idea is rediculous.

Edited by Satan's Evil Twin, 08 August 2012 - 04:18 PM.

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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


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#99 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:18 PM

How can you tell when a lawyer is lying? When his lips are moving. B)


Hey, I actually intend to be a lawyer. <_<
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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


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#100 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:20 PM

Hey, I actually intend to be a lawyer. <_<


You could always be The Devil's Advocate ;)
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#101 Tearloch7

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:37 PM

You could always be The Devil's Advocate ;)


Funniest thing I read all day .. :lol:
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#102 Canuckerbird

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:01 PM

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You keep trying to bring my occupation into this as mockery. I'm sure that if you had the guts to mention yours I could have a few laughs as well. But then again so many insults over the Internet would undoubtably be silenced in person. I love having real conversations in person where people are too afraid to say what's really on their mind. Best to keep it behind the keyboard.


See the things is, here at CDC, we aren't exactly strangers to members who are lawyers or who practice other legal professions. Indeed, the most prolific poster that this board has ever seen just happens to be lawyer. And while Wetcoaster may have come across as an emotionless, wine loving, classy restaurant patron to some; there was never any doubt about the validity of his claimed profession. The man was a walking Black's Law Dictionary who never passed up an opportunity to educate anyone who got into a legal argument with him. Infamous as he was for burying opponents with walls of statute provisions and settled jurisprudence, at the end of the day, no one questioned the fact that he was indeed a lawyer. True, he may have had biases and prejudices regarding certain topics, but he rarely, if ever, allowed his personal beliefs to trump his knowledge of the law. And he certainly never made arguments based on illogical, irrational, or emotional grounds.

Taking into account the way you present yourself and your arguments, ( equating humans to dogs, and arguing from an emotional rather than a logical standpoint) it is rather hard for us to take your claim of being a lawyer as anything more than spurious. Perhaps Wetcoaster spoiled us, perhaps you really are someone who did well enough in University, scored high enough on the LSAT to be admitted into law school, was able to persevere through the rigours and demanding nature of said law school, and then successfully pass the bar exam of whatever province or state you may belong to. Maybe those are the facts in the case at bar. As it stands though, you've given very little evidence to support your claim, in fact, anytime that someone challenges said claim, you are not able to defend your position with any factual basis. Now I could be wrong, but is it not one of a lawyer's primary functions to be able to defend his stance? If I was a client of yours, I'd be more than a little concerned with your lawyering skills.
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#103 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:06 PM

See the things is, here at CDC, we aren't exactly strangers to members who are lawyers or who practice other legal professions. Indeed, the most prolific poster that this board has ever seen just happens to be lawyer. And while Wetcoaster may have come across as an emotionless, wine loving, classy restaurant patron to some; there was never any doubt about the validity of his claimed profession. The man was a walking Black's Law Dictionary who never passed up an opportunity to educate anyone who got into a legal argument with him. Infamous as he was for burying opponents with walls of statute provisions and settled jurisprudence, at the end of the day, no one questioned the fact that he was indeed a lawyer. True, he may have had biases and prejudices regarding certain topics, but he rarely, if ever, allowed his personal beliefs to trump his knowledge of the law. And he certainly never made arguments based on illogical, irrational, or emotional grounds.

Taking into account the way you present yourself and your arguments, ( equating humans to dogs, and arguing from an emotional rather than a logical standpoint) it is rather hard for us to take your claim of being a lawyer as anything more than spurious. Perhaps Wetcoaster spoiled us, perhaps you really are someone who did well enough in University, scored high enough on the LSAT to be admitted into law school, was able to persevere through the rigours and demanding nature of said law school, and then successfully pass the bar exam of whatever province or state you may belong to. Maybe those are the facts in the case at bar. As it stands though, you've given very little evidence to support your claim, in fact, anytime that someone challenges said claim, you are not able to defend your position with any factual basis. Now I could be wrong, but is it not one of a lawyer's primary functions to be able to defend his stance? If I was a client of yours, I'd be more than a little concerned with your lawyering skills.



Well said.

- The Pope.
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#104 Special Ed

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:13 PM

See the things is, here at CDC, we aren't exactly strangers to members who are lawyers or who practice other legal professions. Indeed, the most prolific poster that this board has ever seen just happens to be lawyer. And while Wetcoaster may have come across as an emotionless, wine loving, classy restaurant patron to some; there was never any doubt about the validity of his claimed profession. The man was a walking Black's Law Dictionary who never passed up an opportunity to educate anyone who got into a legal argument with him. Infamous as he was for burying opponents with walls of statute provisions and settled jurisprudence, at the end of the day, no one questioned the fact that he was indeed a lawyer. True, he may have had biases and prejudices regarding certain topics, but he rarely, if ever, allowed his personal beliefs to trump his knowledge of the law. And he certainly never made arguments based on illogical, irrational, or emotional grounds.

Taking into account the way you present yourself and your arguments, ( equating humans to dogs, and arguing from an emotional rather than a logical standpoint) it is rather hard for us to take your claim of being a lawyer as anything more than spurious. Perhaps Wetcoaster spoiled us, perhaps you really are someone who did well enough in University, scored high enough on the LSAT to be admitted into law school, was able to persevere through the rigours and demanding nature of said law school, and then successfully pass the bar exam of whatever province or state you may belong to. Maybe those are the facts in the case at bar. As it stands though, you've given very little evidence to support your claim, in fact, anytime that someone challenges said claim, you are not able to defend your position with any factual basis. Now I could be wrong, but is it not one of a lawyer's primary functions to be able to defend his stance? If I was a client of yours, I'd be more than a little concerned with your lawyering skills.


Well said. And I completely agree. I have not presented myself here in that manner at all nor do I care to. I'm glad wet coaster took the effort to make such a distinguishable mark upon this board. However I don't intend to. And I have nothing to prove as I said its merely a form of entertainment. Cheers.

Luckily my clients aren't surfing CDC on a regular basis. And if they were it wouldn't matter anyway. It's the Internet and usually I spend about 1 minute per post. At the end of the day this means 0. Whats important is when I close this web page and get a contract signed. Then enjoy my day.

Edited by Special Ed, 08 August 2012 - 05:23 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#105 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:24 PM

Well said. And I completely agree. I have not presented myself here in that manner at all nor do I care to. I'm glad wet coaster took the effort to make such a distinguishable mark upon this board. However I don't intend to. And I have nothing to prove as I said its merely a form of entertainment. Cheers.


Just drop the charade and admit that you're not a lawyer. It's quite obvious that you couldn't lawyer your way out of a parking ticket.
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#106 higgyfan

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:26 PM

I remember when I was visiting Texas about 6 years ago they executed a mentally challenged man. Apparently he had the mental capacity of an eight year old. I though it was extreme then and I still do.
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#107 Canuckerbird

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:27 PM

Well said.

- The Pope.


The Pope is not an atheist..................or is he? DUN DUN DUN
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#108 Special Ed

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:28 PM

Just drop the charade and admit that you're not a lawyer. It's quite obvious that you couldn't lawyer your way out of a parking ticket.



Lol parking tickets? On my second phone call I was asked to rip the ticket up. Had one on broadway a little while ago. Thanks for bringing that up.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#109 Canuckerbird

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:49 PM

The risk of executing an innocent person, minimal though it may be, should be enough to dissuade any modern society from enforcing capital punishment.

How does any government justify itself after executing/murdering an innocent person? What kind of apology can it offer to the family of the wrongfully executed? No amount of monetary restitution can make up for the loss of a loved one.

Even in cases where the executed truly was guilty, would his death bring back the life of whoever he killed? In the end, capital punishment doesn't correct any injustice, it serves only to satisfy the emotional need for revenge. That hole in one's being that resulted from the death of a loved one, it can never be filled with successful retribution.
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#110 Ovech Trick

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:53 PM

srsly guys...

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#111 Slaytanic Wehrmacht

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:54 PM

The risk of executing an innocent person, minimal though it may be, should be enough to dissuade any modern society from enforcing capital punishment.

How does any government justify itself after executing/murdering an innocent person? What kind of apology can it offer to the family of the wrongfully executed? No amount of monetary restitution can make up for the loss of a loved one.

Even in cases where the executed truly was guilty, would his death bring back the life of whoever he killed? In the end, capital punishment doesn't correct any injustice, it serves only to satisfy the emotional need for revenge. That hole in one's being that resulted from the death of a loved one, it can never be filled with successful retribution.


It's this whole "eye for an eye" bs mentality that so many in the US have...you are "guilty until proven innocent" instead of the other way around...and most times, when a family for instance has lost a loved one to a murder, etc...they usually don't care if the guy the cops have arrested is the one who actually committed the crime, they just want to see somebody go down for it. Justice is blind.
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#112 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:42 PM

I'm not much for the death penalty because even one mistaken execution means the government (ie people) have committed murder (you gonna execute the populace or government in return?) but I'm also not going to weep for or try to defend people convicted of murder either. Their mental capacity to me has no logical bearing in the equation as even animals that are a threat in kind to a populace are put down because of that threat due to their actions. Likewise, the most obvious (as in the murder(s) is/are seen on video) and heinous murders don't deserve the waste of taxpayer funds for pointless bureaucracy and the killer(s) if the death penalty is going to be there must be put down with the most expediency following conviction.

Edited by zaibatsu, 08 August 2012 - 06:46 PM.

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#113 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:10 PM

I'm not much for the death penalty because even one mistaken execution means the government (ie people) have committed murder (you gonna execute the populace or government in return?) but I'm also not going to weep for or try to defend people convicted of murder either. Their mental capacity to me has no logical bearing in the equation as even animals that are a threat in kind to a populace are put down because of that threat due to their actions. Likewise, the most obvious (as in the murder(s) is/are seen on video) and heinous murders don't deserve the waste of taxpayer funds for pointless bureaucracy and the killer(s) if the death penalty is going to be there must be put down with the most expediency following conviction.


Those two statements are in conflict with one another.

If you can't establish that you're not dealing with a sound mind, then how are able to establish premeditated motive and intent and how can you execute someone without properly establishing those two fundamentals elements of a crime such as homicide?

The whole argument that it costs more to house convicts than to execute them has been debunked many times on CDC.

And how can you effectively defend someone from execution if you don't fund an adequate defence and appeals to establish innocence??

A video proves guilt?? A video is hardly ever as black and white as it seems, nor does it necessarily point out possible mitigating factors and any good criminal defence lawyer can rip a video apart in argument. A good defence and appeals are pointless bureaucracy??
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#114 Jester13

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:47 PM

Lol parking tickets? On my second phone call I was asked to rip the ticket up. Had one on broadway a little while ago. Thanks for bringing that up.


Everyone be nice to Ed, he's special -_- Now Ed, be a nice boy and tell these men the truth... BEFORE WE EXECUTE YOU!
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#115 Special Ed

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:01 PM

Everyone be nice to Ed, he's special -_- Now Ed, be a nice boy and tell these men the truth... BEFORE WE EXECUTE YOU!


I haven't lied one single time. Believe whatever you like :)
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#116 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:01 PM

Those two statements are in conflict with one another.

They're only in conflict because you wish to twist them that way.

If you can't establish that you're not dealing with a sound mind, then how are able to establish premeditated motive and intent and how can you execute someone without properly establishing those two fundamentals elements of a crime such as homicide?

Premeditated motive and intent is really irrelevant when someone kills another person, although, not according to the bureaucracy that is the court system in the US. Going into the intent is really just going into technicalities.. pointlessly, in this case surrounding execution in my scenario.

The whole argument that it costs more to house convicts than to execute them has been debunked many times on CDC.

No, if you read my post, not if they are executed with expediency, taxpayer costs to kill death row inmates aren't that high solely from the cost of killing them but the long process of keeping them in jail, giving them the luxurious treatment, then killing them. An expedient execution for the most heinous crimes removes that element and it no longer becomes costly.

And how can you effectively defend someone from execution if you don't fund an adequate defence and appeals to establish innocence??

Because the process takes so long to go through, get rid of that perpetuity of defence, give a chance to show how the most obvious crime is in fact a lie and once they inevitably fail put them to death immediately. No muss, no fuss, no insane taxpayer costs.. middleground.

A video proves guilt?? A video is hardly ever as black and white as it seems, nor does it necessarily point out possible mitigating factors and any good criminal defence lawyer can rip a video apart in argument. A good defence and appeals are pointless bureaucracy??

A person killing another person, especially on video, is pretty black and white to me. By your logic, we can't trust that a rover landed on Mars.. you know, because things are so confusing.

Edited by zaibatsu, 08 August 2012 - 09:02 PM.

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#117 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:36 PM

They're only in conflict because you wish to twist them that way.


I didn't twist a thing. I simply highlighted them. The conflict was inherently visible.

Premeditated motive and intent is really irrelevant when someone kills another person, although, not according to the bureaucracy that is the court system in the US. Going into the intent is really just going into technicalities.. pointlessly, in this case surrounding execution in my scenario.


Irrelevant? To a homicide case?? Just a pointless technicality??

Good grief.

:picard:

No, if you read my post, not if they are executed with expediency, taxpayer costs to kill death row inmates aren't that high solely from the cost of killing them but the long process of keeping them in jail, giving them the luxurious treatment, then killing them. An expedient execution for the most heinous crimes removes that element and it no longer becomes costly.


Expeditious executions leads to innocent people being put to death, because of mistakes. They've been tried in the past. They don't work. This is why there's a lengthy appeal and rigorous defence process. If you want quick executions then perhaps build a time machine to travel back to the Wild West, or purchase a domicile in Saudi Arabia. The Islamic theocratic gov't will ensure a quick and entertaining executions for your viewing pleasure. You won't have to worry about due process there.

Because the process takes so long to go through, get rid of that perpetuity of defence, give a chance to show how the most obvious crime is in fact a lie and once they inevitably fail put them to death immediately. No muss, no fuss, no insane taxpayer costs.. middleground.


The defence isn't perpetual, it's limited. Sometimes the most obvious crimes from the surface aren't and evidence can come to light later on. Quick executions would put innocent people to death unnecessarily and mistakenly. That is a muss, there would be a fuss, and the lawsuits against the gov't would certainly be borne by the taxpayers.

A person killing another person, especially on video, is pretty black and white to me. By your logic, we can't trust that a rover landed on Mars.. you know, because things are so confusing.


Nope, it isn't black and white. It can be fuzzy, distorted, blocked, unclear, not show the full scene, etc, much like a rover on Mars. Also, it doesn't show what led up to the killing. It may not show a case of self-defence. It would simply show the act of killing. That's not enough to convict someone.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 09 August 2012 - 02:19 AM.

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#118 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 01:57 AM

See the things is, here at CDC, we aren't exactly strangers to members who are lawyers or who practice other legal professions. Indeed, the most prolific poster that this board has ever seen just happens to be lawyer. And while Wetcoaster may have come across as an emotionless, wine loving, classy restaurant patron to some; there was never any doubt about the validity of his claimed profession. The man was a walking Black's Law Dictionary who never passed up an opportunity to educate anyone who got into a legal argument with him. Infamous as he was for burying opponents with walls of statute provisions and settled jurisprudence, at the end of the day, no one questioned the fact that he was indeed a lawyer. True, he may have had biases and prejudices regarding certain topics, but he rarely, if ever, allowed his personal beliefs to trump his knowledge of the law. And he certainly never made arguments based on illogical, irrational, or emotional grounds.

Taking into account the way you present yourself and your arguments, ( equating humans to dogs, and arguing from an emotional rather than a logical standpoint) it is rather hard for us to take your claim of being a lawyer as anything more than spurious. Perhaps Wetcoaster spoiled us, perhaps you really are someone who did well enough in University, scored high enough on the LSAT to be admitted into law school, was able to persevere through the rigours and demanding nature of said law school, and then successfully pass the bar exam of whatever province or state you may belong to. Maybe those are the facts in the case at bar. As it stands though, you've given very little evidence to support your claim, in fact, anytime that someone challenges said claim, you are not able to defend your position with any factual basis. Now I could be wrong, but is it not one of a lawyer's primary functions to be able to defend his stance? If I was a client of yours, I'd be more than a little concerned with your lawyering skills.


PURE GOLD .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

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#119 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:54 AM

Well said. And I completely agree. I have not presented myself here in that manner at all nor do I care to. I'm glad wet coaster took the effort to make such a distinguishable mark upon this board. However I don't intend to. And I have nothing to prove as I said its merely a form of entertainment. Cheers.

Luckily my clients aren't surfing CDC on a regular basis. And if they were it wouldn't matter anyway. It's the Internet and usually I spend about 1 minute per post. At the end of the day this means 0. Whats important is when I close this web page and get a contract signed. Then enjoy my day.


The thing about interacting with people on the internet is that the interaction is intellectual rather than physical , so it is relatively easy to get a good idea of another user's ability to ratiocinate .
now you say you do not want to make a distinguishable mark upon this board but you already have , and it is pretty obvious that if you are indeed a lawyer then your clients have some pretty serious problems , now i do not say this to be nasty but as another user has noted your ability to argue a point both rationally and logically is questionable and i believe this to be critically important in a profession such as the one you claim to belong to .
I am also aware that the legal profession has all sorts of people with their varying range of skills and attributes , and in saying this after interacting with you on these boards for some time now , i can only say i am ecstatic about the fact that i will never need to call on your alleged lawyering skills.

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 09 August 2012 - 03:58 AM.

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#120 Jai604

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 03:01 AM

Those of you condoning capital punishment, do you not realize the irony?

So, in order to punish a murderer, you commit murder? Are we still in the dark ages?

The chance, however slight, that you may wrongfully execute an innocent person should be enough to dissuade anyone from thinking that the death penalty is a valid form of punishment. As others have noted in this thread already, just over 10% of people executed were later found to be innocent. 10%. That is a huge number. I don't see how anyone could condone capital punishment with those kinds of numbers.

Let's be honest with ourselves: killing someone because they've committed murder isn't justice, it's vengeance. It's not for the protection of society, for preventing further crimes. Don't lie to yourselves for a second and think that this eye-for-an-eye mentality is little more than filling an emotional need.

Executing someone does not bring back the person who was murdered. So what exactly is the point? It's already been shown that executing someone costs more than keeping someone in jail. There's no financial benefit, and there is no social benefit. What then?

All we're left with, as others have noted, and I will re-iterate, is emotional validation. It's nothing more than revenge.
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