Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo

Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
2034 replies to this topic

#1231 Nevlach

Nevlach

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,022 posts
  • Joined: 04-April 05

Posted 21 September 2012 - 02:51 PM

I argue against their truth claims about god.

Like this message board, for example, if one puts out an assertion or makes a claim in a post, then they are opening that claim and assertion to scrutiny and disagreement, should there be some. Likewise, when theists make extraordinary claims without even minimally ordinary evidence, let alone extraordinary evidence which can, will and does have wide ranging tangible affects and effects not only on the shared society in which we live in, but also on all those that inhabit and participate in that shared society, then they are open to rebuttal, disagreement, and such, in opposition, as many atheist do in turn to the non-credibly evidenced truth claims of the existence of their deity, let alone their claims to know its mind.

That's the why or the 'what for' as you chose to put it.

While I do like your answer I guess I just have one last question on the subject. Is it true that you not only lack the belief in a god or gods but that you also think there is sufficient evidence and arguments to reasonably conclude that none exist at all?
Posted Image
Posted Image

#1232 AbbyNucksFan

AbbyNucksFan

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,434 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 09

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:03 PM

While I do like your answer I guess I just have one last question on the subject. Is it true that you not only lack the belief in a god or gods but that you also think there is sufficient evidence and arguments to reasonably conclude that none exist at all?


thats kind of a pointless question IMO.. if there is no evidence, why would he think something exists? There's no evidence for a teapot orbiting Jupiter either.. does he need to argue that it doesnt exist?
Posted Image

Credit to LostViking for the sig! Thanks!

#1233 Buddhas Hand

Buddhas Hand

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,533 posts
  • Joined: 19-December 11

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:07 PM

I agree with you that history is absolutely decimated by sexist men who do not love their wives but instead beat them and even torture them, but that exists even in a culture that is supposed to be 'equal', for example like America now. Drunkards and generally abusive husbands are responsible for this behaviour. It isn't the functional structure prescribed by the Bible

To answer you, no, I wouldn't. It is not Biblically prescribed for a holistic and functional church and family. Although a women may easily take up the role as the head of a family or church (not a judgement on skill) but the Bible prescribes women not to, on the basis on our personality and predisposed purpose in life. Again, you have to embrace the existence of God to understand intrinsic value and purpose. If a women was perfect, and following the functional roles prescribed by the Bible, then the husband she supports would basically have the most wisest counsellor the world has to offer. For the women has been described as "counsellor" both in Old Testament and New Testament, a similar word used to describe the Holy Spirit. Now that's on par with God!

Again, in no way do I advocate that women are lesser than men, nor vice versa. But rather, men and women compliment each other with our character and personalities.


I know a couple who have been married for over 5 years. The wife has been pretty much wearing the pants of the relationship, making decisions and bringing in the cash. She feels absolutely exhausted and wants her husband to apply himself more in the relationship. Though at first he is the timid type, he eventually told her that she is "leading" too much and it makes him feel out of place to want to lead. So after speaking with their pastor, she decided to lead less, and instead, support her husband in decisions he makes and so on. The relationship today is a very very different one, where the husband is more confident in his roles and the wife is much more happier now. She feels open about being a supporter and loves how her husband is WANTING to be in the relationship now.

Ratiocinator, there is really no way I can convince you this is the way to live since you reject the existence of God and most likely Christianity altogether, so the only thing I can do is show you it's not sexism or chauvinism. Those things you mentioned like beating wives and abuse exists EVEN in families that aren't complimentarian.


dagusta i appreciate the fact that you keep your posts civil , mine have gotten a bit edgy because i hate men that do not treat women as their equals and i apologise if i have offended you .

as i have said time and again i do not reject something that cannot be proven to exist , i have an open mind , but you are right i despise christianity and will do everything in my power to ridicule a bunch of power hungry freaks that want to use the belief in a god as a control mechanism .
I like 75% of my countrymen think that religion cuases way more harm than good , and if there is a god he would certainly not have the human attribute's that human beings have endowed him with .

do you actually know the point in time that your god, the g-d of abraham was accepted by the first people he supposedly chose to talk to ?
and do you know the circumstances in which this acceptance was delivered ?

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#1234 Nevlach

Nevlach

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,022 posts
  • Joined: 04-April 05

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:18 PM

thats kind of a pointless question IMO.. if there is no evidence, why would he think something exists? There's no evidence for a teapot orbiting Jupiter either.. does he need to argue that it doesnt exist?

Ok so then there is no evidence to the contrary then?

Atheists only lack a belief because no theist or deist has given enough evidence, but theres nothing to suggest the opposite; that a god or gods in fact do not exist at all? So it's just an absence of evidence. That is the only problem with a "god" existing?

I guess I was just under the impression that there were arguments for god's non-existence.

Edited by Nevlach, 21 September 2012 - 03:20 PM.

Posted Image
Posted Image

#1235 J.R.

J.R.

    Rainbow Butt Monkey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,433 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 08

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:22 PM

Ok so then there is no evidence to the contrary then?

Atheists only lack a belief because no theist or deist has given enough evidence, but theres nothing to suggest the opposite; that a god or gods in fact do not exist at all? So it's just an absence of evidence. That is the only problem with a "god" existing?


Nope. There's plenty of "problems" with it. It's simply the easiest, most direct, most obvious and arguably "biggest" one. And the problem isn't that theists/deists haven't given "enough" evidence. The problem is there is NONE.

Give us some satisfactorily researched, verified ACTUAL scientific data proving otherwise. Go ahead, I'll wait here.
"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Posted ImagePosted Image

#1236 Gumballthechewy

Gumballthechewy

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,905 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 11

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:25 PM

I'm not religious but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It's just makes for a weak argument in my opinion.

Same goes for aliens and Sasquatch.

(I'm being serious)

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 21 September 2012 - 03:32 PM.

Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#1237 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,379 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 07

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:31 PM

While I do like your answer I guess I just have one last question on the subject. Is it true that you not only lack the belief in a god or gods but that you also think there is sufficient evidence and arguments to reasonably conclude that none exist at all?


I cannot give evidence against something that exists as a figment of one's imagination, regardless how real they believe it to be, or how real any deluded person believes the ruminations for their imaginary friends to be. When the claim is made that the thing exists in the natural world, outside of one's imagination, then, I am able to reason and evidence that the claim is faulty, baseless, unsupportable, non-credible or unnecessary based on what the person puts forth as evidence or reason in support of the claim. Till then, I don't hold any active pre-supposition for the various evidence-less things that I invariably have no reason to believe.

Posted Image Pittsburgh Penguins - CDC GML Posted Image


"My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and after the offer I received from Buffalo, I believe this is the best place to make it happen." - Christian Ehrhoff


#1238 Nevlach

Nevlach

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,022 posts
  • Joined: 04-April 05

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:31 PM

Nope. There's plenty of "problems" with it. It's simply the easiest, most direct, most obvious and arguably "biggest" one. And the problem isn't that theists/deists haven't given "enough" evidence. The problem is there is NONE.

Give us some satisfactorily researched, verified ACTUAL scientific data proving otherwise. Go ahead, I'll wait here.

I'm not claiming there is a god. I'm just claiming that there is a difference between lacking a belief in something and having reasons to disbelieve something. If an atheist simply lacks a belief in god because there is no evidence then that's fine I don't have a problem with that at all. I'm just saying it's possible to be more than just a lack of belief. Once you start giving reasons for rejecting god other then a lack of evidence you take a stand on the matter effectively making it more than just a lack of belief in god but on out-right denial of his existence in the first place - because then one is making truth/belief claims.

(I'm not saying god exists or trying to even argue that god exists...I'll leave that to the Christians and Muslims)
Posted Image
Posted Image

#1239 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,379 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 07

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:34 PM

I'm not religious but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It's just makes for a weak argument in my opinion.


It can be in situations.

Tell me, do you have a 100 karat diamond in your hand? No? Well it's obviously there, since according to you its absence doesn't necessarily mean that it's absent from being in your hand currently.......right?? ;)

Posted Image Pittsburgh Penguins - CDC GML Posted Image


"My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and after the offer I received from Buffalo, I believe this is the best place to make it happen." - Christian Ehrhoff


#1240 Nevlach

Nevlach

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,022 posts
  • Joined: 04-April 05

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:36 PM

For example I lack a belief in fairies because there is no evidence for them.

If someone tries to present evidence for them they are making a claim that they exist.

Now after they make their claims I can use science, philosophy, reason etc. to give reasons why it is impossible or highly improbable that they exist.

Once I make my claims I leave the world of simple lack of belief and support a stance of non-belief.

Edited by Nevlach, 21 September 2012 - 03:37 PM.

Posted Image
Posted Image

#1241 J.R.

J.R.

    Rainbow Butt Monkey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,433 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 08

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:38 PM

I'm not religious but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It's just makes for a weak argument in my opinion.


We're not the one's arguing there's a god. We do not have the burden of proof. The weak argument is on the "religious" side.

But besides that, as I know this is the point so many are begging for answer... There's also plenty of other data suggesting that an omnipotent deity is quite unlikely and unneeded to explain the existence of the universe and everything contained in it.

So let's review. There's no evidence there is a "god". There's no reason the universe requires a "god". What here is pointing to there being a "god"? Again, shows us some actual, tangible scientific data on why/how and we'll go from there.

Until then you may as well be the same pagans you persecuted, "reformed" and murdered for centuries. Worshiping fictional deities whose existence is owed to at the time misunderstood/unknown to then current science, natural phenomenons and as a tool by those in power to control those weak in critical thinking.
"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Posted ImagePosted Image

#1242 Gumballthechewy

Gumballthechewy

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,905 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 11

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:43 PM

We're not the one's arguing there's a god. We do not have the burden of proof. The weak argument is on the "religious" side.

But besides that, as I know this is the point so many are begging for answer... There's also plenty of other data suggesting that an omnipotent deity is quite unlikely and unneeded to explain the existence of the universe and everything contained in it.

So let's review. There's no evidence there is a "god". There's no reason the universe requires a "god". What here is pointing to there being a "god"? Again, shows us some actual, tangible scientific data on why/how and we'll go from there.

Until then you may as well be the same pagans you persecuted, "reformed" and murdered for centuries. Worshiping fictional deities whose existence is owed to at the time misunderstood/unknown to then current science, natural phenomenons and as a tool by those in power to control those weak in critical thinking.


Buddy, what part of:

I'm not religious


Don't you get?

Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#1243 J.R.

J.R.

    Rainbow Butt Monkey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,433 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 08

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:44 PM

I'm not claiming there is a god. I'm just claiming that there is a difference between lacking a belief in something and having reasons to disbelieve something. If an atheist simply lacks a belief in god because there is no evidence then that's fine I don't have a problem with that at all. I'm just saying it's possible to be more than just a lack of belief. Once you start giving reasons for rejecting god other then a lack of evidence you take a stand on the matter effectively making it more than just a lack of belief in god but on out-right denial of his existence in the first place - because then one is making truth/belief claims.

(I'm not saying god exists or trying to even argue that god exists...I'll leave that to the Christians and Muslims)


No they are not. I do not BELIEVE there is no god(s), I merely lack any evidence to suggest there are/is.

How do you people not see the difference? How many times does Sharp and now myself have to repeat ourselves?

Posted Image
"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Posted ImagePosted Image

#1244 J.R.

J.R.

    Rainbow Butt Monkey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,433 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 08

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:45 PM

Buddy, what part of:



Don't you get?


Fine. "The religious", then, ok? ;)
"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Posted ImagePosted Image

#1245 Gumballthechewy

Gumballthechewy

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,905 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 11

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:47 PM

It can be in situations.

Tell me, do you have a 100 karat diamond in your hand? No? Well it's obviously there, since according to you its absence doesn't necessarily mean that it's absent from being in your hand currently.......right?? ;)


So there's an absolute zero chance alien life exists in the universe then?

And I do, in fact, have a 100 karat diamond in my hand, I'm a wizard.

Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#1246 Gumballthechewy

Gumballthechewy

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,905 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 11

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:49 PM

Fine. "The religious", then, ok? ;)


Thank you, I don't like to be mislabeled as one of them.

Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#1247 J.R.

J.R.

    Rainbow Butt Monkey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,433 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 08

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:49 PM

So there's an absolute zero chance alien life exists in the universe then?

And I do, in fact, have a 100 karat diamond in my hand, I'm a wizard.


There's actually MUCH more scientific evidence to suggest alien life is certainly a possibility, heck, even likely than there is for a deity. That does not mean there certainly is alien life out there however.
"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Posted ImagePosted Image

#1248 Gumballthechewy

Gumballthechewy

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,905 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 11

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:54 PM

There's actually MUCH more scientific evidence to suggest alien life is certainly a possibility, heck, even likely than there is for a deity. That does not mean there certainly is alien life out there however.


That's the way I was implying it. (god not aliens)

I believe that there is alien life somewhere in this vast universe 100%. Life always finds a way and it has proven that on many occasions. If I'm not mistaken they've found fossilised bacteria on Mars and had its magnetic field not died they believe life could have evolved.

But that may not be the truth, I certainly don't know and I don't know if there definitely is or is not a god, not that it would make a difference to me either way if there was like I've said before.

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 21 September 2012 - 03:58 PM.

Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#1249 Nevlach

Nevlach

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,022 posts
  • Joined: 04-April 05

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:57 PM

No they are not. I do not BELIEVE there is no god(s), I merely lack any evidence to suggest there are/is.

How do you people not see the difference? How many times does Sharp and now myself have to repeat ourselves?

Posted Image

And how does no one see that there is a difference between simply lacking a belief in something and there being positive reasons to suggest that it is so - therefore I also do not believe it.

I lack the belief that gum balls can cure cancer. There IS reasons to believe this is true. Therefore, I do not simply lack the belief I also do not believe it.

To put it in terms of a deity. I lack a belief in a god or gods. There are good reasons to reject the Christian claims for a Christian God. Therefore, I do not simply lack the belief but I also do not believe "He" exists.

I mean do you only lack evidence and therefore lack a belief, or do you have reasons to go one step further and say "yeah he probably doesn't exist."

Edited by Nevlach, 21 September 2012 - 03:58 PM.

Posted Image
Posted Image

#1250 Kryten

Kryten

    Aladdin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,058 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 12

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:58 PM

Don't worry about atheism being a religion. You can be a non-practicing atheist if you want. Nobody will force you to go to church.

But if you're an activist in atheism anyway, like, say, writing hundreds of posts in order to try to convert theists to atheism, then i'm not sure why you'd be totally against atheism becoming a religion anyway.

Certainly there are atheist activists who are taking this approach now. They must think that the pros (free money) outweigh the cons (hypocrisy).  It's their right. Just like how it's your right to not be a 'practising' atheist.


Personally, I am against any institution, movement, belief that claims to know the answers to questions without proof or valid verification. It's the assertion that belonging to a certain group gives you the "correct" outlook as opposed to allowing yourself to question everything, that makes their claims disingenuous. That radical form of atheism can go right ahead and form a religion, they are as misinformed/illogical as other faith based institutions and deserve the lack of credibility.

You bolded my posts and then what?  Assert the logical fallacy that you seem to have found.


Nope. I just assert that you are a hypocrite and make yourself look ridiculous by mocking others while claiming to be a pastor.

Edited by Kryten, 21 September 2012 - 04:02 PM.

Posted Image

#1251 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,379 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 07

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:09 PM

So there's an absolute zero chance alien life exists in the universe then?

And I do, in fact, have a 100 karat diamond in my hand, I'm a wizard.


If you're talking about probabilities, then there is a probability scale for anything and everything.

Posted Image Pittsburgh Penguins - CDC GML Posted Image


"My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and after the offer I received from Buffalo, I believe this is the best place to make it happen." - Christian Ehrhoff


#1252 dajusta

dajusta

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,910 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 03

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:14 PM

dagusta i appreciate the fact that you keep your posts civil , mine have gotten a bit edgy because i hate men that do not treat women as their equals and i apologise if i have offended you .

as i have said time and again i do not reject something that cannot be proven to exist , i have an open mind , but you are right i despise christianity and will do everything in my power to ridicule a bunch of power hungry freaks that want to use the belief in a god as a control mechanism .
I like 75% of my countrymen think that religion cuases way more harm than good , and if there is a god he would certainly not have the human attribute's that human beings have endowed him with .

do you actually know the point in time that your god, the g-d of abraham was accepted by the first people he supposedly chose to talk to ?
and do you know the circumstances in which this acceptance was delivered ?


Thank you for also being speaking from your heart. The topic is a racy one in which even Christians differ greatly on.

What are we talking about now? When do I know God first approached Abraham? Near 2150BCE if memory serves me right.

What does this have to do with anything?

For the first part: More than has been presented thus far by theologians and the indoctrinated followers of religion.

For the second part: I would base my decision to worship based on their actions, motivations, character, history and morals. One has to be worthy for my worship.


So you don't even know what evidences you seek for, you just want more. Typical I suppose, but how do you consider yourself open minded with that attitude? Your requirements for proof aren't even established.

Ok, let me add a little bit more then, if god turns out to be real I still wouldn't become religious or change the way I live my life in anyway. I am who I am and the existence or non-existence of a god or gods will not change me.

I am my own man plain and simple.


Which is very sad. If God is truly real, then there are implications that are far greater than your own. Only a fool will reject counsel, and the wise fear God.

You know what you sound like right now? Someone who works at a restaurant and cares not about the restaurant owner who stepped out for a short coffee break. "Who cares about the owner, he can go screw himself". If the owner comes back, how will he treat you?

You have a job, don't you? Surely you care about your performance. Don't lie. If God truly exists and if he really indeed made you for a purpose, you seriously wouldn't care? Is there a lack of consistency between the boss of your job, and the boss of the universe?

Edited by dajusta, 21 September 2012 - 04:15 PM.

I'm Christian
I won't judge you
No one is perfect
Only through Jesus
Will we find Truth

#1253 J.R.

J.R.

    Rainbow Butt Monkey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,433 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 08

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:17 PM

So you don't even know what evidences you seek for, you just want more. Typical I suppose, but how do you consider yourself open minded with that attitude? Your requirements for proof aren't even established.


ANY scientific data would probably be a good start...
"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Posted ImagePosted Image

#1254 dajusta

dajusta

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,910 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 03

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:18 PM

Nope. I just assert that you are a hypocrite and make yourself look ridiculous by mocking others while claiming to be a pastor.


Alright then show how I'm a hypocrite. BTW where are those logical fallacies?

I am a pastor. I speak from the heart. If something offends you then please reveal which post I have offended you. Ultimately, I'm on the purpose of defending the notion of God and the deity of Christ. Atheists might feel threatened by my presence. Some find it encouraging. Either way, I am as true as I try to be.
I'm Christian
I won't judge you
No one is perfect
Only through Jesus
Will we find Truth

#1255 dajusta

dajusta

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,910 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 03

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:21 PM

ANY scientific data would probably be a good start...


Does historical data count?

Primary source data as well as eye witness historical claims show that there was a Jesus character that was brought back to life. These are similar manuscripts which have even better textual criticism than manuscripts used to prove the existence of Alexander the Great.

Do you believe in Alexander the Great, or is he just another myth?
I'm Christian
I won't judge you
No one is perfect
Only through Jesus
Will we find Truth

#1256 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,379 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 07

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:23 PM

So you don't even know what evidences you seek for, you just want more. Typical I suppose, but how do you consider yourself open minded with that attitude? Your requirements for proof aren't even established.


I don't specify the types of evidence I seek, in order to give you a wide berth so as not to limit the evidence I ask for.

So go ahead, and provide some tangible, credible, reasonable, logical evidence.

This'll only be the 5th time I ask.

Posted Image Pittsburgh Penguins - CDC GML Posted Image


"My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and after the offer I received from Buffalo, I believe this is the best place to make it happen." - Christian Ehrhoff


#1257 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,379 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 07

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

Does historical data count?

Primary source data as well as eye witness historical claims show that there was a Jesus character that was brought back to life. These are similar manuscripts which have even better textual criticism than manuscripts used to prove the existence of Alexander the Great.

Do you believe in Alexander the Great, or is he just another myth?


Alexander the Great has tangible secular evidence for his existence, Jesus/God does not. Trust me, you don't want to go down this route. It's a dead end for you. Ask Heretic.

Posted Image Pittsburgh Penguins - CDC GML Posted Image


"My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and after the offer I received from Buffalo, I believe this is the best place to make it happen." - Christian Ehrhoff


#1258 dajusta

dajusta

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,910 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 03

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

I don't specify the types of evidence I seek, in order to give you a wide berth so as not to limit the evidence I ask for.

So go ahead, and provide some tangible, credible, reasonable, logical evidence.

This'll only be the 5th time I ask.


I have given you tangible, credible, reasonable, logical evidence.. possibly six times.

Alright here's some more logical evidence for you - if you took apart your monitor piece by piece, then put it in a closed environment in which you shook up for trillions of years, will you reassemble your monitor? Y/N?

Alexander the Great has tangible secular evidence for his existence, Jesus/God does not. Trust me, you don't want to go down this route. It's a dead end for you. Ask Heretic.



Secularism didn't even arise til separation of church and state. How could Alexander the Great have secular evidence? Sharpshooter you're really reaching here. You mean to say "outside of Christianity"?

Edited by dajusta, 21 September 2012 - 04:28 PM.

I'm Christian
I won't judge you
No one is perfect
Only through Jesus
Will we find Truth

#1259 Buddhas Hand

Buddhas Hand

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,533 posts
  • Joined: 19-December 11

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:26 PM

Thank you for also being speaking from your heart. The topic is a racy one in which even Christians differ greatly on.

What are we talking about now? When do I know God first approached Abraham? Near 2150BCE if memory serves me right.

What does this have to do with anything?



So you don't even know what evidences you seek for, you just want more. Typical I suppose, but how do you consider yourself open minded with that attitude? Your requirements for proof aren't even established.



Which is very sad. If God is truly real, then there are implications that are far greater than your own. Only a fool will reject counsel, and the wise fear God.

You know what you sound like right now? Someone who works at a restaurant and cares not about the restaurant owner who stepped out for a short coffee break. "Who cares about the owner, he can go screw himself". If the owner comes back, how will he treat you?

You have a job, don't you? Surely you care about your performance. Don't lie. If God truly exists and if he really indeed made you for a purpose, you seriously wouldn't care? Is there a lack of consistency between the boss of your job, and the boss of the universe?


No i mean when the jewish scholars and intellectuals finally gave up their belief in both the g-d of abraham and baalim and baalot and chose to believe in the one diety , the g-d of abraham .

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#1260 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,379 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 07

Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:26 PM

I have given you tangible, credible, reasonable, logical evidence.. possibly six times.

Alright here's some more logical evidence for you - if you took apart your monitor piece by piece, then put it in a closed environment in which you shook up for trillions of years, will you reassemble your monitor? Y/N?


Which post # was that again??

What does my monitor have to do with the evidence for God?

Posted Image Pittsburgh Penguins - CDC GML Posted Image


"My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and after the offer I received from Buffalo, I believe this is the best place to make it happen." - Christian Ehrhoff





Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.