Drybone Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I find it quite funny Canadians scoff at a small band of Texas citizens trying to petition ............... When we have sat here and watched Quebec do this very thing on a serious scale for 30 years . Hell, they didnt even sign the constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I find it quite funny Canadians scoff at a small band of Texas citizens trying to petition ............... When we have sat here and watched Quebec do this very thing on a serious scale for 30 years . Hell, they didnt even sign the constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkeeterHansen Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 The amount of people that have signed so far works out to be about 0.4% of the population of Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I find it quite funny Canadians scoff at a small band of Texas citizens trying to petition ............... When we have sat here and watched Quebec do this very thing on a serious scale for 30 years . Hell, they didnt even sign the constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 To put things in perspective, when close to 50% of Texan's sign the petition, ala the Quebequois, then there is room for concern .. petition all they want, as is their democratic right .. when they get a plebiscite, or Ballot initiative, THEN Rick Perry will call out Walker, Texas Doofus .. maybe he has an extra horse for ya, pardner .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 pretty sure we scoff at quebec too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromotacanucks Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 considering that Texas was an independent nation in the past (Texas Republic) isn´t a big surprise if they decide do this again. actualy every country face this problem. an angry state/province/region decides be independent, soo the create an informal movement trying convince everyone that be an independent nation is better. however think about this. considering the Texas example: 1) Texas would have to create their own army, navy and airforce. the US government will not give any support, in fact Texas will be automatically considered as an enemy... 2) Texas would have to create their own money and economy, trade with other countries that would see this new country as an unstable region. not good for commerce... 3) new country, new rules, new citizens and passports. USA would deny the acess of "new Texans" to/from USA. just like North Korea did/do... 4) old enemies, new problems. Imagine this. Texas become a new country, Mexico simply decide put their army across the new border, Texans now face an enemy that wasn´t an enemy but just a problem. OR Mexico can decide join USA against the new republic. creating instability and destroying the new government by crushing the economy of even with military actions... 5) a perfect place to war with a crazy leader. supposing that the new country is ruled by an angry guy decided to show everyone that the nation is a big nation (North Korea situation). with a crazy leader behind it´s very easy make allies if they´re as crazy as you. another Civil War in USA? I don´t think so, Washington would crush or nuke the rebellians before they try do something... of course every country have this situation, USA has Texas and the former "Confederate States", Canada has Quebec, Brazil has the southern states.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeone Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 What would happen if Texas actually seceded? By The Week's Editorial Staff | The Week – Mon, Nov 26, 2012 http://news.yahoo.com/happen-texas-actually-seceded-114000495.html Secession fever has struck much of red America after President Obama's re-election. And that's got a lot of people asking "what if...?" "Talk of secession is in the air," says Brett Arends at MarketWatch. At least a small number of people in each of the 50 states have filed petitions on the White House website "We The People" asking that their state be allowed to leave the Union. Under rules laid out by President Obama, any petition that gets 25,000 "signatures" in 30 days earns an official response: At least seven states have more than 30,000 signatures, and the Texas petition had more than 117,000 as of Nov. 26. All of this secession fever "comes 150 years after the Civil War, and just in time for Steve Spielberg's biopic of Abraham Lincoln, the man whom we have to thank — if that’s the word I want — for the continued forcible marriage of the once-independent states." Of course, nobody really expects any state to openly revolt and agitate for independence, but what would happen if they did? Here's what you should know: First off: Do states have the right to secede? No. Like "nullification" — the idea that states can unilaterally ignore a federal law they don't like — secession "is one of those extra-legal concepts that was hotly debated during the decades leading up to the Civil War," says Richard Dunham in the Houston Chronicle. Nullification and secession threats have popped up in the 150 year since, but the question was mostly settled at the Battle of Appomattox Court House. "The bottom line is that any state — or confederation of states — can illegally secede from the Union. But the result, as we discovered in 1861, is Civil War." Are there any exceptions? No — although lots of Texans believe their state has a special "opt-out" clause (31 percent, according to a 2009 Rasmussen poll). Part of that may be due to Gov. Rick Perry ®, who told a crowd that year that when the former Republic of Texas "came in the Union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave, if we decided to do that." But he was wrong, says Jeff Turrentine at Slate. "Texas' so-called 'right' to secede is no more than a politically emboldening myth, the boastful residue of the decade it spent as a sovereign nation before joining America." Still, the Lone Star State does have "an unusual ace up its sleeve" — its annexation papers do allow Texas to unilaterally split in to as many as five states. Some Texas Republicans posit that faced with the threat of eight new Republicans tilting the balance of the Senate, Washington would let the Texas offshoots leave without a fight. What would happen if the feds let states go peacefully? First of all, "it would be excellent financial news for those of us left behind if Obama were to grant a number of the rebel states their wish," says Dana Milbank at The Washington Post. That's because most states threatening to secede are part of the old Confederacy, and "low tax" southern red states typically get "far more from the federal government in expenditures than they pay in taxes." Each California and New Jersey taxpayer, for example, pays thousands each year to subsidize residents of Louisiana and Alabama — the lone exception is Texas, which, thanks to oil revenue, comes out about even, tax-wise. And what about residents of unshackled red states? If you're in a state intent on bolting the Union, there is good tax news, says MarketWatch's Arends: "You will be liberated from the sheer living hell of the federal tax code." Of course, you'll also "get fewer government services." Also, your newly independent nation "will go into recession, and fast." The feds would take back their highway, airport, and university research funding, and maybe even demand a refund, says the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in an editorial. Obama would close down or repossess federal courthouses, prisons, national parks, and military bases that pump tens of billions each into local economies. Plus, Texas and other newly minted nations would have to pay for their own militaries, says Jack Simmons at the UT-Arlington Shorthorn. "We would also need some form of health care, some sort of disaster relief, a postal service, welfare, social security, FDA, CIA, FBI — the list goes on," totaling well over a trillion dollars. "And that's just start-up costs." So why is secession so popular? It's not, really. Even in Texas, the hotbed of the secession movement, support for breaking free is limited to "a loud but small minority," says the Houston Chronicle's Dunham. Rasmussen clocked it at 18 percent. In other words, "more Texans believe in UFOs than in secession." Mostly, secession talk is just a silly way to register disappointment in the election results, says Glenn Harlan Reynolds at USA Today. Remember "in 2004, when disappointed Democrats were talking about secession, and circulating maps of America divided into 'The United States of Canada' and 'Jesusland'"? But there are serious reasons, too: Some states "feel that the central government doesn't respect them, forces them to live under laws they find repugnant, and takes their money away to pay off its own supporters." The way to fix that is giving states more power — in other words, returning to the federalism the U.S. was founded under. "It's a nice plan. Beats secession." Sources: Ft. Worth Star-Telegram, Houston Chronicle, MarketWatch, New York Times, Shorthorn,Slate (2), Washington Post, White House, USA Today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Great read dudeone ^ ^ ^ .. thanks .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudson bay rules Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gumballthechewy Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 pretty sure we scoff at quebec too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeone Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 White House: Texas must remain part of the US By JUAN CARLOS LLORCA | Associated Press – Mon, Jan 14, 2013 http://news.yahoo.co...-212720777.html EL PASO, Texas (AP) — Bad news for thousands of people who wanted to see Texas secede: The state is still in the U.S. The White House has responded to a petition asking that Texas be allowed to break away from the country, saying the Founding Fathers who created the nation "did not provide a right to walk away from it." More than 125,000 people signed the petition, which was created a few days after President Barack Obama won re-election. The White House has promised to respond to any petition that gets more than 25,000 signatures within 30 days. Jon Carson, director of the White House Office of Public Engagement, issued a response quoting Abraham Lincoln's first inaugural address and a Supreme Court opinion after the Civil War. It said America was created as a "perpetual union," but one that allows people with different beliefs to debate the issues. "Democracy can be noisy and controversial," Carson said. "Free and open debate is what makes this country work. ... But as much as we value a healthy debate, we don't let that debate tear us apart." The petition was created by Micah Hurd, a Texas National Guardsman and an engineering student at the University of Texas in Arlington. He couldn't be reached for comment Monday. In asking that Texas be allowed to leave the country, the petition cited the "economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending." It argued that given the size of Texas' economy and because the state has a balanced budget, it would be "practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union." The petition also said the federal government didn't share the same values held by the Founding Fathers. But Carson argued that the writers of the U.S. Constitution addressed the need for policy change through elections, not secession. The petition's success brought overnight fame for Hurd, though briefly got him in trouble. In December, a regiment commander at the Texas National Guard sent an email to his subordinates, including Hurd, saying "any mention of secession better happen on a civilian venue." "It's only talk, and rather ignorant talk at that," the commander wrote. "If you've already done something to call attention to yourself or our regiment in this matter, make it go away." But a few days later, a National Guard spokeswoman said Hurd had done nothing wrong and that "the email asking him not to talk about it" shouldn't have been sent. A telephone listing for Hurd couldn't be found Monday by The Associated Press. His father, who has spoken on behalf of his son in the past, didn't immediately return a phone message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Geez, that's too bad .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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