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Norwegian Mass Murderer Breivik Complains About Treatment


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#31 Peaches

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:12 PM

Wetcoaster, I learn more from you in a day, than I do at school in a week.

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#32 TACIC

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:13 PM

Lets all jump on the sympathy train for this goof.....:picard:
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#33 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:55 PM

Lets all jump on the sympathy train for this goof..... :picard:

What "sympathy train"?

He is a seriously disturbed individual who will in all likelihood spend the rest of his life incarcerated - as well he should.
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#34 Gerg

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:56 AM

Reminds me almost as much of Jamie Bacon "I can't see the TV from my cell"
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#35 hudson bay rules

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:55 AM

I still don't get why they just don't shoot the guy.

Wasting time and tax dollars on this guy.


Obviously, you don't know that Norway doesn't have the death penalty.

On top of that do you just ignore the stats that say it's more expensive to kill someone that it is to keep them in prison in perpetuity?
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#36 Mountain Man

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:47 AM

Obviously, you don't know that Norway doesn't have the death penalty.

On top of that do you just ignore the stats that say it's more expensive to kill someone that it is to keep them in prison in perpetuity?


Exactly, also Norway could have gone the fear mongering way and killing him would only make him a martyr for his sick and twisted beliefs.

By bringing him down off his own pedestal that he and the media placed him on, and had him tried as a normal human being. It made him look like an outcast and delusional for carrying out his attack.

Also, this reduced the tension of a "terrorist" attack. Don't need to turn things into a police state and have fear run everything. Just look how well that's working for our neighbours to the south.
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#37 Guest_Gumballthechewy_*

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:37 AM

In summary I prefer the high road of civilization to the low road of vengeance and barbarism. YMMV.


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree my friend.

Or...

People like him (mass murderers, ect...) shouldn't have what he has in prison, he should be sitting in a 10x10 cell with nothing but a hard bed and a dingy toilet.

#38 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:16 AM

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree my friend.

Or...

People like him (mass murderers, ect...) shouldn't have what he has in prison, he should be sitting in a 10x10 cell with nothing but a hard bed and a dingy toilet.

The US retribution approach vs a more enlightened restorative justice approach in Norway - and it is the latter that works better.according to numerous studies. Unless you place retribution and vengeance ahead of all other measures.


The much-studied Norwegian system is built on something called restorative justice. Proponents of this system might argue that it emphasizes healing: for the victims, for the society, and, yes, for the criminal him or herself. Sounds straightforward enough, but you might notice that there's nothing in there about necessarily punishing the criminal, and in fact even takes his or her needs into account.


"Restorative justice thus begins with a concern for victims and how to meet their needs, for repairing the harm as much as possible, both concretely and symbolically," explains a 1997 academic article, by a scholar of restorative justice named Howard Zehr, extolling the systems' virtues. In the Breivik trial, this meant giving every victim (survivors as well as the families of those killed) a direct voice. Victims were individually represented by 174 court-appointed lawyers. The court heard 77 autopsy reports, 77 descriptions of how Breivik had killed them, and 77 minute-long biographies "voicing his or her unfulfilled ambitions and dreams." In an American-style retributive system, the trial is primarily about hearing and evaluating the case against the criminal. Norway does this too, but it also includes this restorative tool of giving space to victims, not as evidence, but to make the trial a forum for those victims to heal and to confront the man who'd harmed them. The trial itself is about more than just proving or disproving guilt, but about exorcising the victims' suffering.


What about the criminal? Of course, Norway is locking Breivik away in part to keep him safely cordoned off from society. Beyond that, the restorative "model encourages offenders to understand the consequences of their actions or to empathize with victims," Zehr explains. That begins with the trial, where he or she is encouraged to grapple with the wrongness of their actions; Breivik gave no sign of doing this, a remorseless, fist-pumping neo-Nazi to the very end. The process continues during the incarceration, which is treated less as a form of punishment than as a sort of state-imposed rehabilitation. It's not a categorial difference from the American model, which includes a number of rehab and therapeutic offerings, but, with Breivik about to enjoy some not insignificant creature comforts in his three-room cell, the emphasis is clearly distinct.


The pleasant-sounding experience of being in Norwegian prison isn't some sign of Scandinavian weakness or naïveté; it's precisely the point. A comfortable cell, clean and relaxing environment, and nice daily activities such as cooking classes are all meant to prepare the criminal for potentially difficult or painful internal reformation. Incarceration, in this thinking, is the treatment for whatever social or psychological disease led them to transgress. The criminals are not primarily wrongdoers to be punished, but broken people to be fixed.


In an ideal restorative trial, the criminal will not just be passively punished for his or her crime, but actively take "responsibility for making things right with victims and the community as far as possible," as Zehr puts it. This "restitution" can include "money and services, to victims and the community." But that's just an ideal, and Zehr acknowledges that "society rarely achieves justice that is fully restorative." It's hard to imagine Breivik ever getting to this point (experts expect his sentence to be extended indefinitely), though others do, and he will be joining a prison system designed for those to-be-reformed.


Here's the tough thing about restorative justice: it works, as long as you don't consider retribution to be its own inherent good. Despite the lighter sentences, restorative justice systems seem to reduce crime, reduce the cost of imprisoning criminals, and reduce recidivism. There's no comparative data on which system better satisfies victims, but survivors and family members at the Breivik trial, at least, spent days of court time listening to, crying over, and applauding one another's stories. And this approach isn't just for well-off Scandinavian societies; Saudi Arabia has claimed considerable success applying the restorative models to terrorists and violent extremists.


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#39 Guest_Gumballthechewy_*

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:21 AM

Either or, doesn't matter to me.




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