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Norway Data Shows Earth’s Global Warming Less Severe Than Feared


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#31 nucklehead

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:30 AM

http://channel.natio...-ice-age-ahead/

In fact we`re already on our way to the next ice age.
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#32 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:49 AM

http://channel.natio...-ice-age-ahead/

In fact we`re already on our way to the next ice age.

Could be, but the paranoia card over that one was already played out and milked dry decades ago.. the paranoia about global warming is the new rage.
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#33 nucklehead

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:58 AM

My ice age snorts at your decades.
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#34 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:12 AM

My ice age snorts at your decades.

Your ice age needs to go back to rehab and quit snorting things. :mad: :angry:

Edited by zaibatsu, 30 January 2013 - 08:13 AM.

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#35 nucklehead

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:19 AM

Right. Pass the koolaid.
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#36 inane

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:45 AM

This thread has become just painful to read.
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#37 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:03 AM


In 2008, reports of polar bears' inevitable march toward extinction gripped headlines. Stories of thinning Arctic ice and even polar bear cannibalism combined to make these predators into a powerful symbol in the debate about climate change.

The headlines caught Zac Unger's attention, and he decided to write a book about the bears.
Unger made a plan to move to Churchill, Manitoba, a flat, gray place on the Hudson Bay in northern Canada accessible only by train or plane. For a few months out of the year, as the bay starts to freeze, tiny Churchill boasts as many polar bears as it does people
.

Unger packed up his wife and three small kids, and set out with a big bold idea. He wanted to write the quintessential requiem of how human-caused climate change was killing off these magnificent beasts.

In the end, he came away with something totally different, Unger tells NPR's Laura Sullivan.


Interview Highlights
On wanting to write the next great environmental tract
"My humble plan was to become a hero of the environmental movement. I was going to go up to the Canadian Arctic, I was going to write this mournful elegy for the polar bears, at which point I'd be hailed as the next coming of John Muir and borne aloft on the shoulders of my environmental compatriots ...
"So when I got up there, I started realizing polar bears were not in as bad a shape as the conventional wisdom had led me to believe, which was actually very heartening, but didn't fit well with the book I'd been planning to write.

"... There are far more polar bears alive today than there were 40 years ago. ... In 1973, there was a global hunting ban. So once hunting was dramatically reduced, the population exploded. This is not to say that global warming is not real or is not a problem for the polar bears. But polar bear populations are large, and the truth is that we can't look at it as a monolithic population that is all going one way or another."

On moving his family to "Polar Bear Capital of the World"

"We were in this town in northern Manitoba where polar bears literally will walk down Main Street. There are polar bears in this town. People will leave their cars and houses unlocked, and it's perfectly good form just to duck into any open door you can find when there's a polar bear chasing you.

"People use what they call Churchill welcome mats, which is a piece of plywood laid down in front of the door or leaned up against the door with hundreds of nails sticking out so that when the polar bear comes up to pad across your porch, he's going to get a paw full of sharp nails."



^ If one wonders why I'm so vehemently opposed to this green environmental propagandist/alarmist movement, this little story thoroughly encapsulates why.

Edited by zaibatsu, 05 February 2013 - 02:03 AM.

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#38 inane

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

^ If one wonders why I'm so vehemently opposed to this green environmental propagandist/alarmist movement, this little story thoroughly encapsulates why.


That you define your view based on the extreme side of anything is what's puzzling.
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#39 Tearloch7

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:20 AM

That you define your view based on the extreme side of anything is what's puzzling.


Even more than puzzling, to some it is almost troubling .. -_-
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#40 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:30 PM

http://channel.natio...-ice-age-ahead/

In fact we`re already on our way to the next ice age.


Well, technically we're still in an ice age.
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#41 J.R.

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

^ If one wonders why I'm so vehemently opposed to this green environmental propagandist/alarmist movement, this little story thoroughly encapsulates why.


So we used to hunt them to the brink of extinction, banned hunting them so there numbers could recover and now that they have revived, large populations we're going to slowly kill them by warming the earth/destroying their habitat and ability to hunt/get food.

How is that an argument against the "green movement" exactly...? :blink:
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#42 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:59 PM

So we used to hunt them to the brink of extinction, banned hunting them so there numbers could recover and now that they have revived, large populations we're going to slowly kill them by warming the earth/destroying their habitat and ability to hunt/get food.

How is that an argument against the "green movement" exactly...? :blink:


Polar bears are also against guns. That doesn't sit well with zaibatsu.

Seriously though, I didn't get his post either.
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#43 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

So we used to hunt them to the brink of extinction, banned hunting them so there numbers could recover and now that they have revived, large populations we're going to slowly kill them by warming the earth/destroying their habitat and ability to hunt/get food.

How is that an argument against the "green movement" exactly...? :blink:

You obviously (intentionally or not) missed it being said several times that green nut alarmists deliberately lied (and to this day still do so) about the polar bear population spiralling toward extinction (using them as images of them to try and tug at a populace's heart strings), when for 40 years the population has been growing due to the ban, in order to attempt at achieving political goals.

That's quite a good argument against the green movement, because these people who use alarmist bull**** for political gains need to be rebuked at minimum, laughed at and tossed out of the political arena otherwise.

Edited by zaibatsu, 05 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.

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#44 J.R.

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:10 PM

You obviously (intentionally or not) missed it being said several times that green nut alarmists deliberately lied (and to this day still do so) about the polar bear population spiralling toward extinction (using them as images of them to try and tug at a populace's heart strings), when for 40 years the population has been growing due to the ban, in order to attempt at achieving political goals.

That's quite a good argument against the green movement, because these people who use alarmist bull**** for political gains need to be rebuked at minimum, laughed at and tossed out of the political arena otherwise.


No I think it speaks to the fact that you should always look at ALL available information before forming opinions on any subject.

As for the polar bears, I think more attention has been brought to the destruction of their habitat affecting their ability to hunt for food and what that will INEVITABLY do to their recovered population. Or should we wait for it to actually become a problem before bringing attention to the situation of shrinking ice and how it will affect bear populations? How many bears should be left before we bring attention to it? 5000? 500? 50?
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#45 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:11 PM

You obviously (intentionally or not) missed it being said several times that green nut alarmists deliberately lied (and to this day still do so) about the polar bear population spiralling toward extinction (using them as images of them to try and tug at a populace's heart strings), when for 40 years the population has been growing due to the ban, in order to attempt at achieving political goals.

That's quite a good argument against the green movement, because these people who use alarmist bull**** for political gains need to be rebuked at minimum, laughed at and tossed out of the political arena otherwise.


No, that's libertarians like yourself.
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#46 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:30 PM

No I think it speaks to the fact that you should always look at ALL available information before forming opinions on any subject.

As for the polar bears, I think more attention has been brought to the destruction of their habitat affecting their ability to hunt for food and what that will INEVITABLY do to their recovered population. Or should we wait for it to actually become a problem before bringing attention to the situation of shrinking ice and how it will affect bear populations? How many bears should be left before we bring attention to it? 5000? 500? 50?

Sufficed to say, their environment still does thrive, and so does their population. Given such consistent thriving, the mere mention of dwindling should inspire laughs.

Much like a number of movements, a sect of political advocates need to keep making something an issue to try and worry people and remain relevant to a debate to keep the money flow and propagandising coming. This issue is one of a handful from the green movement, and that part of his book I found rather interesting because the green movement often tries to portray itself as "scientific" when in fact with things like this it's much more akin to, say, religious alarmist movements.

No, that's libertarians like yourself.

The hurt is strong in this one.

Edited by zaibatsu, 05 February 2013 - 01:32 PM.

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#47 J.R.

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:40 PM

Sufficed to say, their environment still does thrive, and so does their population. Given such consistent thriving, the mere mention of dwindling should inspire laughs.

Much like a number of movements, a sect of political advocates need to keep making something an issue to try and worry people and remain relevant to a debate to keep the money flow and propagandising coming. This issue is one of a handful from the green movement, and that part of his book I found rather interesting because the green movement often tries to portray itself as "scientific" when in fact with things like this it's much more akin to, say, religious alarmist movements.


The hurt is strong in this one.


Humans also have "thriving populations". Should we continue to poison the earth and use up resources at an unsustainable rate because we're currently "ok"?

You call it alarmist, I call it actually thinking long term (based on the science you don't seem to think they're using) rather than only at what's immediately in front of our faces. Heck even what's immediately in our faces is showing signs of trouble... but go ahead and keep burying your head in the sand.
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#48 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:48 PM

Scientist disputes claim that polar bear population is abundant

A recent aerial survey in Nunavut suggests that the polar bear population isn’t diminishing due to climate change. But a University of Alberta expert says otherwise.


A polar bear expert and professor of biological sciences at the University of Alberta is critical of the “spin” put on a recent aerial survey of polar bears in the western Hudson Bay.

The study, which was conducted on behalf of the Nunavut government, found that there are likely about 1,013 polar bears in the region, which is not significantly different from a previous mark-and-recapture or tagging study done in 2004.

This has led some to conclude that the polar bear population hasn’t significantly declined over the last seven years, despite the predictions of some scientists who have suggested that the population would decline to about 650 by 2011.

But Andrew Derocher, who has studied polar bears for 40 years, believes that the two surveys can’t be compared.

“It’s like comparing apples and oranges,” he explained to the Star in a phone interview. The aerial study looked at a much larger region than the tagging study, Derocher said.

“Effectively you can’t compare the abundance between the mark-and-recapture survey and the aerial survey directly because they’re measuring two different things.”

Derocher believes the Nunavut Tunngavik Inc. — a company formed to advance the rights of the Nunavut land rights agreement, including the harvesting rights of the Inuit — may have “jumped the gun rather than waiting for a complete analysis” of the survey.

He suggests that perhaps some of the survey’s analysis may have been used to spin the science of climate change. NTI claimed when the report first came out that the polar bear population was abundant and healthy.

At the time the survey was released James Eetoolook, vice president of NTI, said the aerial survey proved the Inuit’s belief that “polar bears are not declining in number.”

“We have reported for many years that we are seeing more and more bears on land and in communities, which raises public safety concerns,” Eetoolook said in a statement on the company’s website.

“Inuit were told by scientists the reason there are more bears in communities is due to a decline in the condition of the population, but Inuit disagreed with this interpretation,” said Eetoolook. “For many years, Inuit asked the territorial government to conduct summer range aerial surveys. Finally, in 2011, that aerial survey was conducted and as Inuit knew, the population was found to be healthy and abundant.

He continued: “This is not climate change. This is about how polar bears were used to draw attention to climate change. Changes were not made to reduce the causes or impact of climate change, but changes were made to the harvesting quotas. It was dangerous and wrong for scientist to use incomplete data to make predictions.”

But Derocher disagrees, suggesting the NTI is “trying to discount 40 years of research,” said Derocher.

What is critical in the latest report is the number of cubs and yearlings found, he explains. Those numbers are substantially down. According to the aerial survey — very few cubs were seen in the region where the survey took place — 50 cubs and 22 yearlings were observed.

What’s more, average litter sizes were “the lowest recorded in recent years amongst the three Hudson Bay subpopulations, suggesting that reproductive output in WH (western Hudson Bay) was poor in 2011, the aerial survey concluded in its summary of findings.

That suggests to Derocher something serious is going on. Derocher believes that two to five times more cubs were born in the 1980s through to the 1990s.

In recent years Derocher and others have seen a decline in body weight of the bears, leading to a cut in cub production and cub survival. “The aerial survey study is consistent with those findings,” he said.

“The science of the effects of climate change on polar bears in Hudson Bay is absolutely profound — and that is that basically the loss of sea ice reduces the body conditions of bears and bears with lower body condition produce fewer cubs and the bears collectively have lower survival rates.”

Put simply: Climate change is forcing bears to spend more time on land where there is virtually no food. Females are 30 to 40 kilograms lighter than they were in the early 1980s. And they’re producing fewer cubs.

“When you put it all together it summarizes a population that is not reproducing sufficiently to maintain the current abundance and that means the population is in decline.”

This isn’t just the case in the western Hudson Bay, but it is a pattern being repeated in other parts of the Arctic, Derocher said.

What is at the heart of the debate is the intense interest in northern communities to hunt polar bears, Derocher said.

“This has always been a struggle. Canada has always historically been a leader in the management of polar bear harvest, but over the last 10 to 15 years there has been a drift from precautionary management and this leads us into more of a precarious situation in terms of the international community and how they view our management system of polar bears,” Derocher said.

Derocher suggests that the comments by Nunavut Tunngavik Inc. were “unfortunate” and will undervalue the science of what was done in the aerial survey. “If we try to use it as a propaganda tool the international community won’t buy it,” he said.

Canada’s right to export polar bear hide could come under fire next year when the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species meets. Historically, polar bear hide and fur has been exported to Europe and Japan mainly for rugs. But in recent years Russia and China have become leading importers of polar bear hide.

http://www.thestar.c...s_abundant.html


This is by a real scientist, not some guy who wanted to write a book. So I guess it can be dismissed as green nut propaganda. JR is right about looking ahead.

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#49 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:55 PM

Humans also have "thriving populations". Should we continue to poison the earth and use up resources at an unsustainable rate because we're currently "ok"?

You call it alarmist, I call it actually thinking long term (based on the science you don't seem to think they're using) rather than only at what's immediately in front of our faces. Heck even what's immediately in our faces is showing signs of trouble... but go ahead and keep burying your head in the sand.

Alarmist behaviour such as this is not "thinking long term", it's just alarmist behaviour.

Anyone with a half ounce of understanding about climate versus wildlife populations is that both the climate changes regardless of human activity and species regularly go extinct, as both a result of a specific dominating species and/or climate changing. It's the green movement that has this illogical "save the planet" mentality, as illustrated by "poison the Earth".

A thriving population of humans is also good not merely because it's an increasing number but that it's coupled with increasing health, and longer lifespans.. thanks to science.

The green movement does itself no favours with alarmist rhetoric, especially when it's least sensible or flat out lying. This cannot be confused with science by any more objective source, it's more like religion because of this pervasive logic-spurning cult mentality.
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#50 J.R.

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

Alarmist behaviour such as this is not "thinking long term", it's just alarmist behaviour.

Anyone with a half ounce of understanding about climate versus wildlife populations is that both the climate changes regardless of human activity and species regularly go extinct, as both a result of a specific dominating species and/or climate changing. It's the green movement that has this illogical "save the planet" mentality, as illustrated by "poison the Earth".

A thriving population of humans is also good not merely because it's an increasing number but that it's coupled with increasing health, and longer lifespans.. thanks to science.

The green movement does itself no favours with alarmist rhetoric, especially when it's least sensible or flat out lying. This cannot be confused with science by any more objective source, it's more like religion because of this pervasive logic-spurning cult mentality.


And anyone with a a half ounce of understanding of climate, science etc should also be able to see all the data that shows that humans are affecting the climate at a rate unseen in the earth's history. Just because something has changed in the past without your influence does not mean your influence is not changing it now. How you fail to grasp that is alarming.

Also read Lockout's post. Apples and scrawny, lower reproducing oranges (polar bears).

So many "canaries in our coal mines" are dropping dead all around you and people like you continue to ignore them at your (and everyone else's) peril,

Edited by J.R., 05 February 2013 - 02:07 PM.

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