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Judge throws teen in jail for 30 days for giving him the finger.


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#151 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

Looks like you were 86'd from the "club". :shock:[size=4] Note that disagreeing with a clique or not falling for clique dogma results in clique excommunication. Clique is looking for devout sycophants. :lol:


Obviously that's the issue, Wetcoaster clearly takes issues with judgement calls made by judges in Heller because the outcome is not what he personally desires, but given he already invested subjective declarations about Ms. Soto, and illustrates wilful ignorance on the second page to the antagonistic behaviour the judge was blatantly partaking in, he will give a pass to a judge being part of a conflict he just jailed someone for. If this is likening to parenting, given the posts suggesting this is supposed to be a lesson taught, this is awful parenting that won't teach any valuable lesson, and clearly something is in need of being done about this judge's absolute authority in the matter, he does not look like he can handle it.


This post and it's content are a prime example of the willful ignorance the author speaks of.
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#152 Dazzle

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

And i have pointed out many times before , so often the law fails to provide JUSTICE :sadno:


Everyone has a different concept of what "justice" is.

For some people, justice is retribution, which may or may not involve the concept of "Karma". When I mean by retribution, it may be the idea of an eye for an eye.

Other parts of retribution may involve "Karma". Example would be: a rapist rapes a girl/guy and gets away. Right after he gets away, inexplicably, there is a rapist that rapes him/her.

Others think 'justice' is when a convicted felon is locked up so he can no longer terrorize his/her victims.

I think the law has difficulty putting in what the people 'really' want. It is so divided.
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#153 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

I take it you're a parent/have nieces or nephews. If they said "Adios" to you, or gave you the middle finger, would you send them to jail for 30 days?

This is *swear filter bypass removed*, and an abuse of power.


Apples and orangutans.

And no, as they would not be speaking to me like that in the first place.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 06 February 2013 - 05:34 PM.

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#154 Wetcoaster

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:34 PM

But if it was a different judge, one who was more sympathetic (or perhaps pitying the girl for being such a train wreck) decided to force her to go do a month at boot camp, it could serve the same purpose of teaching the lesson about consequences.

One may have different opinions about the efficacy of jail time and how it may or may not reform people.

There are likely situations where the 'contempt of court' charge were reserved for very serious incidents, but in this scenario, it seems that it is more readily used. The penalty, as mentioned, is arbitrary, without any prior warning to the accused.

I am not defending the accused - I am questioning how the penalties are going to help her down the road. It will be something we can't answer until she finishes the 30 days of jail time AND dealing with the rest of her charges.

When I went to the Richmond Courthouse, I noticed how lax the atmosphere was like, especially with the interactions of the Crown Counsel and the defense during the arraignment hearing. It seems, in many of the cases, Crown Counsel opts not to go for the most extreme charges, but instead, recommends a mellow punishment which the defense readily agrees with. I spoke with a defense attorney afterward and he said that "it's not always about sending someone to jail. It's about helping the person find their way."

Based on the example above, I think, in my most humble opinion, that the penalty, while legally justified, will not help the accused 'find their way'. She needs an attitude adjustment for sure and inside a jail, you are surrounded by negative influences.

Boot camp is not an option in a criminal contempt in the face of the court proceeding.

Rehabilitation is not even a consideration here. This is not subject to the usual criminal sentencing principles. It flows from a judge's inherent jurisdiction (non statutory) to control his/her court.

The accused was clearly warned.
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#155 MillerGenuineDraft

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:35 PM

Apples and orangutans.

And no, as they would not be speaking to me like that in the first place.


So you're saying that in the event of it being your own niece/nephew/child, you would not give this sentence. Yet since it's a mouthy teenager you don't know, it's totally acceptable?

You seriously need to change your attitude.


Edit: Oh, and wait till they grow up, they'll be saying even worse thing to you than, "adios." I wonder what type of sentence you think will be necessary when that day comes ;)

Edited by MillerGenuineDraft, 06 February 2013 - 05:36 PM.

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#156 Aladeen

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:41 PM

So you're saying that in the event of it being your own niece/nephew/child, you would not give this sentence. Yet since it's a mouthy teenager you don't know, it's totally acceptable?

You seriously need to change your attitude.


Edit: Oh, and wait till they grow up, they'll be saying even worse thing to you than, "adios." I wonder what type of sentence you think will be necessary when that day comes ;)

look man you have to learn BB (in her world) is perfect. Anything she says or does either agree with it or you get a lesson in board rules.
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#157 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:41 PM

So you're saying that in the event of it being your own niece/nephew/child, you would not give this sentence. Yet since it's a mouthy teenager you don't know, it's totally acceptable?

You seriously need to change your attitude.


Edit: Oh, and wait till they grow up, they'll be saying even worse thing to you than, "adios." I wonder what type of sentence you think will be necessary when that day comes ;)


That's not what I said at all.

And my attitude is fine, thanks! :)

Uhh, most likely not. They are being raised to be respectful and polite. What is said behind my back and out of earshot is one thing but directly to my face? The possibility of that happening is slim to none. :)

(Unfortunately, I had a mother with the hearing of an owl...... one did not even think of lipping her off within possible earshot :P)
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#158 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

Everyone has a different concept of what "justice" is.

For some people, justice is retribution, which may or may not involve the concept of "Karma". When I mean by retribution, it may be the idea of an eye for an eye.

Other parts of retribution may involve "Karma". Example would be: a rapist rapes a girl/guy and gets away. Right after he gets away, inexplicably, there is a rapist that rapes him/her.

Others think 'justice' is when a convicted felon is locked up so he can no longer terrorize his/her victims.

I think the law has difficulty putting in what the people 'really' want. It is so divided.


Great post mate , and one that shows empathy and understanding of human beings.

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 06 February 2013 - 05:43 PM.

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#159 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

look man you have to learn BB (in her world) is perfect. Anything she says or does either agree with it or you get a lesson in board rules.


You would be incorrect........ again.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 06 February 2013 - 05:44 PM.

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#160 MillerGenuineDraft

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

That's not what I said at all.

And my attitude is fine, thanks! :)

Uhh, most likely not. They are being raised to be respectful and polite. What is said behind my back and out of earshot is one thing but directly to my face? The possibility of that happening is slim to none. :)

(Unfortunately, I had a mother with the hearing of an owl...... one did not even think of lipping her off within possible earshot :P)


If you think arrogance and apathy exemplify fine attitude, than why yes, yes you're attitude is fine. :)

And yeah totally sounds good. :) I'm sure they will grow up to never say a swear word, or raise a certain finger (not saying which one) :)


Edit: :)

Edited by MillerGenuineDraft, 06 February 2013 - 05:45 PM.

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#161 Aladeen

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

You would be incorrect........ again.

Maybe but you're actions don't support that conclusion
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#162 Electro Rock

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

You know what, you're right. This girl should be sent to a resort to carry out her sentence....that'll learn her!!! Prison is supposed to be awful, and if it's as bad as you say, I'm thinking she will have learned her lesson by the end of the 30 days. If Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan can make it, I'm sure she will too.


Celebs either get babysat by the guards or they can arrange for paid protection.

Being scarred for life, if not ruined totally, is an awfully hard lesson given the crime.

Here's what I'm talking about;

http://www.valleycen...56#.URLufp5Z7lg
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#163 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:46 PM

If you think arrogance and apathy exemplify fine attitude, than why yes, yes you're attitude is fine. :)

And yeah totally sounds good. :) I'm sure they will grow up to never say a swear word, or raise a certain finger (not saying which one) :)


Edit: :)


I can honestly say that 'apathy' has never been a word attributed to me before! :lol:
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#164 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

Maybe but you're actions don't support that conclusion


You would be incorrect. You generalize which is a fatal flaw in your theory.
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#165 Aladeen

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

I can honestly say that 'apathy' has never been a word attributed to me before! :lol:

I believe that!
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#166 Aladeen

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:48 PM

You would be incorrect. You generalize which is a fatal flaw in your theory.

I don't know is there a board rule against generalizing? I'm sure you'll show it to me if there is.
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#167 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:48 PM

LMAO. that is all. Welcome to Florida...the most Draconic state in the US. Home of the kangaroo court and the railroad. Florida can drop into the ocean for all I care. America's basement, for the most part. This doesn't surprise me one bit. From its "colorful" election night history to electing W's retard younger brother as their governor...lol
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#168 Aladeen

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

LMAO. that is all. Welcome to Florida...the most Draconic state in the US. Home of the kangaroo court and the railroad. Florida can drop into the ocean for all I care. America's basement, for the most part. This doesn't surprise me one bit. From its "colorful" election night history to electing W's retard younger brother as their governor...lol

But thats where Disneyworld is and Harry Potter Land!!!! At least let me go there before it does!!! ;)

Edited by debluvscanucks, 06 February 2013 - 08:51 PM.

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#169 Wetcoaster

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:50 PM

1.When does rehabilitation come into play exactly? Youre point makes no sense, the whole idea of the american justice system is punishment, rehabilitation has very little to do with any of it.
2. Yah the public defender is really going to go out of his way to intervene and advise some teenager on how to act? No that only comes from a paid attorney. Yes she's stupid but if she was being represented by a paid attorney she would never have had the chance to be stupid in front of the judge in the first place. So she got $5,000 fine for her criminal act and $5,000 fine and 30days in jail for as you put it "Being Stupid".

You don't think if she had a paid Attorney who specilizes in this area of law representing her the sentence would have been different?

I realize ignorance of the law does not excuse the law, but having a deep understanding of the law can sure give you a different (lighter) sentancing.

Rehabilitation does not enter into criminal contempt in the face of the court - these are summary proceeding based upon a judge's inherent jurisdiction to control his/her court and do not have a statutory basis. You are trying to import a principle that is inapplicable.

In Canada our Criminal Code at section 9 eliminates every common law (non-statutory) offence but preserves a judge's inherent jurisdiction to deal with contempt.


9. Notwithstanding anything in this Act or any other Act, no person shall be convicted or discharged under section 730

(a) of an offence at common law,

(b) of an offence under an Act of the Parliament of England, or of Great Britain, or of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, or
(c ) of an offence under an Act or ordinance in force in any province, territory or place before that province, territory or place became a province of Canada,

but nothing in this section affects the power, jurisdiction or authority that a court, judge, justice or provincial court judge had, immediately before April 1, 1955, to impose punishment for contempt of court.


If a legislature wished to it could simply remove this power of contempt but it remains..

Actually public defenders (or duty counsel as we call them in Canada) will invariably instruct defendants on proper behaviour.

In this case the judge warned her and she chose to ignore him.

In the extended version of the video, the public defender did make representations to the judge and was not successful in persuading the judge to re-consider. This is a summary procedure and if Florida is like other jurisdictions there is no appeal from such a decision as it flows from a judge's inherent jurisdiction.

This had nothing to do with ignorance of the law just ignorant and disrespectful behaviour.
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#170 inane

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:51 PM

Apples and orangutans.


You would be incorrect. You generalize which is a fatal flaw in your theory.


You would be incorrect........ again.


Creepy...
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#171 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

Creepy...


:lol:
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#172 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

jus·tice


Definition of JUSTICE


1
a: the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments
b: judge
c: the administration of law; especially: the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity

2
a: the quality of being just, impartial, or fair
b (1): the principle or ideal of just dealing or right action (2): conformity to this principle or ideal : righteousness
c: the quality of conforming to law

3
: conformity to truth, fact, or reason

I believe that justice = conformity to truth , fact and reason

So many laws are UNJUST , and in many courts you do not get a fair and impartial judgement .
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Aldous Huxley.


#173 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:54 PM

^^ **** conformity. ;)
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#174 Aladeen

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

Rehabilitation does not enter into criminal contempt in the face of the court - these are summary proceeding based upon a judge's inherent jurisdiction to control his/her court and do not have a statutory basis. You are trying to import a principle that is inapplicable.

In Canada our Criminal Code at section 9 eliminates every common law (non-statutory) offence but preserves a judge's inherent jurisdiction to deal with contempt.



9. Notwithstanding anything in this Act or any other Act, no person shall be convicted or discharged under section 730

(a) of an offence at common law,

( B) of an offence under an Act of the Parliament of England, or of Great Britain, or of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, or
(c ) of an offence under an Act or ordinance in force in any province, territory or place before that province, territory or place became a province of Canada,

but nothing in this section affects the power, jurisdiction or authority that a court, judge, justice or provincial court judge had, immediately before April 1, 1955, to impose punishment for contempt of court.


If a legislature wished to it could simply remove this power of contempt but it remains..

Actually public defenders (or duty counsel as we call them in Canada) will invariably instruct defendants on proper behaviour.

In this case the judge warned her and she chose to ignore him.

In the extended version of the video, the public defender did make representations to the judge and was not successful in persuading the judge to re-consider. This is a summary procedure and if Florida is like other jurisdictions there is no appeal from such a decision as it flows from a judge's inherent jurisdiction.

This had nothing to do with ignorance of the law just ignorant and disrespectful behaviour.

Stop cutting and pasting laws, Especially Canadian laws since I was talking about the American legal system. Start reading peoples posts rather than responding to them by what you think they are trying to say. I'm saying thats how it is (justice system is about punishment) and you're giving me laws to say that's how it is. Just trying to find an argument where there is none.

And if you try to argue that a paid Attorney representing her would have gotten the same outcome then you really don't know what you're talking about period

Edited by Aladeen, 06 February 2013 - 05:56 PM.

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#175 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

^^ **** conformity. ;)


Truth , fact and reason are the only things that i conform to brother .
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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#176 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

Stop cutting and pasting laws, Especially Canadian laws since I was talking about the American legal system. Start reading peoples posts rather than responding to them by what you think they are trying to say. I'm saying thats how it is (justice system is about punishment) and you're giving me laws to say that's how it is. Just trying to find an argument where there is none.

And if you try to argue that a paid Attorney representing her would have gotten the same outcome then you really don't know what you're talking about period


Jesus I wish I could +1 this post like a trillion times.
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#177 sedated

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:59 PM

Appearing in front of a judge, and in response to a question of how much money she has to gauge her bail she answers "Rick Ross"? Dumb as hell. Glad the judge gave her something to think about. People can whine about it all they want, but the fact of the matter is, the girl was dumb as hell. Why is she talking like that to the judge? I mean, she was dumb enough to do something stupid, but to make it worse by talking like an idiot to someone that could hurt her future?
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#178 Tearloch7

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

Jesus I wish I could +1 this post like a trillion times.


Just come back every day for a few years and voila .. you can do it .. :rolleyes:
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#179 Wetcoaster

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

Stop cutting and pasting laws, Especially Canadian laws since I was talking about the American legal system. Start reading peoples posts rather than responding to them by what you think they are trying to say. I'm saying thats how it is (justice system is about punishment) and you're giving me laws to say that's how it is. Just trying to find an argument where there is none.

And if you try to argue that a paid Attorney representing her would have gotten the same outcome then you really don't know what you're talking about period

The same principles apply in the US in Florida and other states as well as the UK and other similar legal systems.

And your law degree and legal practise certificate was obtained from which jurisdiction and how long have you been a lawyer?
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#180 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

The same principles apply in the US in Florida and other states as well as the UK and other similar legal systems.

And your law degree and legal practise certificate was obtained from which jurisdiction and how long have you been a lawyer?

You are incorrect, apples and orangutans.
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