Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
- - - - -

Team holes to fill at deadline...


  • Please log in to reply
90 replies to this topic

#61 Mookie Wilson

Mookie Wilson

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined: 13-January 09

Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:23 AM

You have seen their offensive numbers post-season, right?

This season is looking like deja vu. I don't see anything in their offensive system/production that convinces me they will be effective post-season against the tighter checking/better coaching/slacker reffing that we have seen in the past.

The 1st unit PP is tired looking and predictable.

For this team to compete, it has to have outstanding goal tending, something they have had the luxury of and that has covered up for some pretty slack and careless efforts.

EIther the top 6 has to find another gear offensively, one that works in the playoff environment or MG needs to find a legitimate top 6 player along the lines of Getzlaf or Perry. The reclamation projects (Booth, HIggins, Lappy) are okay as a supporting cast but so far, they have not shown the ability to bring it when it counts.


The Canucks averaged 2.8 G/P through the first three rounds of 2011, which is solid. Kesler played the Finals on one leg, and Malhotra with one eye, meaning the team was effectively down two top-9 centres.

Kesler was also injured against LAK, and Pahlsson didn't add any scoring punch to the third line.

Kesler is the x-factor again this year. If he returns to 2010-11 form and stays healthy, offense shouldn't be a problem. If he again struggles through injuries, then it probably won't be our year.

Anyhow, I don't disagree that secondary scoring has been an issue in the past - that is, when Kesler hasn't been at his best. And if it appears to be a problem again this year, I would be in favour of a top-6 playmaker being acquired for a reasonable price. But the post of mine which you quoted was a refutation of the idea that the coaches are holding back the forwards with a cautious, defense-first system. The data shows that to be false.

Edited by Mookie Wilson, 18 February 2013 - 11:31 AM.

  • 0

#62 Russ

Russ

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,376 posts
  • Joined: 29-June 06

Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:28 AM

I hope Schroeder is safe, after what happened with Hodgson last year who knows, lol this is just a joke. I think the canucks can use a third line winger so when booth returns we could have a fourth line of lapierre higgins and that winger we aquire, and this can allow us to roll consistent 4 lines per game in the playoffs.

Whats wrong with Weise or Volpatti filling that 3rd spot on the 4th line? Both of them do a fairly good job of holding the puck in the offensive zone and don't get hemmed in our own ever.
  • 0
Xbox Live - Lenerdosy
PSN - Lenerdosy

Interested in a game of NHL or BF3? Send me a friend request and lets play.

#63 Steve Carell

Steve Carell

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,666 posts
  • Joined: 31-December 06

Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:33 AM

IF ANYTHING I think we need a top-tier defenceman, but it'll be hard to get that without giving up some serious talent going the other way.

I'm fine with the team the way it is now.. we just have to have better coaching and execution.
  • 1

#64 derr12

derr12

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 225 posts
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:43 PM

TRADE FOR SAMI SALO!


j/k but seriously could use an A1 offensive threat on the point to spice up our powerplay. Garrison has not been as advertised and Edler is killing me.
  • 0

#65 westcoast

westcoast

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,391 posts
  • Joined: 21-January 03

Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:57 PM

The places that could use upgrading IMO have a long term player I doubt is going anywhere so I'd be surprised to see any moves.
  • 0

#66 DIBdaQUIB

DIBdaQUIB

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,500 posts
  • Joined: 21-November 10

Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:04 PM

The Canucks averaged 2.8 G/P through the first three rounds of 2011, which is solid. Kesler played the Finals on one leg, and Malhotra with one eye, meaning the team was effectively down two top-9 centres.

Kesler was also injured against LAK, and Pahlsson didn't add any scoring punch to the third line.

Kesler is the x-factor again this year. If he returns to 2010-11 form and stays healthy, offense shouldn't be a problem. If he again struggles through injuries, then it probably won't be our year.

Anyhow, I don't disagree that secondary scoring has been an issue in the past - that is, when Kesler hasn't been at his best. And if it appears to be a problem again this year, I would be in favour of a top-6 playmaker being acquired for a reasonable price. But the post of mine which you quoted was a refutation of the idea that the coaches are holding back the forwards with a cautious, defense-first system. The data shows that to be false.


Kesler being healthy certainly is a factor. They way he has been targeted since his return leaves me wondering just how plausible that is.

As for the coaching, I thin it may be the strategy to stop pressing once a lead is established. THis isn't theory as AV has acknowledged himself once a lead is established it's "chip out and chip in". It is obvious to anoyone watching how this can change the momentum of a game as the other team builds it's attack while the Nucks constantly give up possession. Maybe if it's a 3 or 4 goal lead this is fine but with a 1 or 2 goal lead it is suicide.
  • 1

#67 Pavel_Bure 10

Pavel_Bure 10

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 369 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 12

Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

I would love it if we got Torres again

Torres-Lapierre-Hansen/Higgins


  • 0

#68 lowest common denominator

lowest common denominator

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 818 posts
  • Joined: 30-August 06

Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:37 PM

Trade Edler for a Canadian stud D

and trade Booth or Higgins for Torres or similar.

Gonna need some form of riff raff in the playoffs.

Edited by scottiecanuck, 18 February 2013 - 01:39 PM.

  • 0

#69 Mookie Wilson

Mookie Wilson

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined: 13-January 09

Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:41 PM

Trade Edler for a Canadian stud D

and trade Booth or Higgins for Torres or similar.

Gonna need some form of riff raff in the playoffs.


You mean, trade Edler for a superstar defenseman? They don't get traded. If they did, Gillis would've been happy to trade Edler for Weber this past summer.
  • 0

#70 WeatherWise

WeatherWise

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: 20-September 11

Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:49 PM

I'd like to see the team finally move one of their goaltenders (and possibly more) at the deadline for either a top offensive player to complete the second line, or a true powerplay quarterback. This is the team's opportunity to make a move and acquire a player to put this team over the top.

Edited by WeatherWise, 18 February 2013 - 01:50 PM.

  • 0
The greatest segue into a weather segment.

#71 lowest common denominator

lowest common denominator

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 818 posts
  • Joined: 30-August 06

Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:59 PM

You are right mookie. I didn't really think that through.

How about:

Edler + Kesler for a winner

Edler + 1st rounder + Booth for a canuck D


We need players who do what it takes and want to win. The NHL is not the Swedish Elite league or the Olympics, especially come playoff time.

THIS IS SPART...er N H L!!!!
  • 0

#72 thad

thad

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,184 posts
  • Joined: 09-February 09

Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

We don't have holes, we have a work ethic / execution problem. And we're not alone either. Out of the thirty teams in the NHL, at least half could easily win the cup with some hard work and a little luck. The personnel on the ice matters so much less than the effort that is put in. If everyone plays the system, if everyone makes smart plays, if everyone plays on both ends of the ice then the team will win.

We didn't lose to Boston because they had better players, we didn't lose to LA for that reason either. We lost because their players played harder.

I firmly believe that relying on some miracle trade to fill some non-existent hole is a fantasy. We have what we need, everyone just needs to learn their role and execute it. If we stay reasonably healthy and one of our goalies plays reasonably well then we should win the cup. If we don't it won't be because we didn't fill a hole, it'll be because we were out worked by the other team(s).


Absolutely agree 100%.. When every guy on our team is giving it his all, we are virtually unbeatable
  • 0

#73 sandlakthehouse

sandlakthehouse

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 326 posts
  • Joined: 06-November 08

Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:45 PM

Once we get someone to coach this team to win rather than not lose we'll be set
  • 1

#74 Mookie Wilson

Mookie Wilson

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined: 13-January 09

Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

Once we get someone to coach this team to win rather than not lose we'll be set


AV is the League's most winningest coach over the past few years.
  • 1

#75 AngNMGN99

AngNMGN99

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Joined: 28-February 12

Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:55 PM

We don't have holes, we have a work ethic / execution problem. And we're not alone either. Out of the thirty teams in the NHL, at least half could easily win the cup with some hard work and a little luck. The personnel on the ice matters so much less than the effort that is put in. If everyone plays the system, if everyone makes smart plays, if everyone plays on both ends of the ice then the team will win.

We didn't lose to Boston because they had better players, we didn't lose to LA for that reason either. We lost because their players played harder.

I firmly believe that relying on some miracle trade to fill some non-existent hole is a fantasy. We have what we need, everyone just needs to learn their role and execute it. If we stay reasonably healthy and one of our goalies plays reasonably well then we should win the cup. If we don't it won't be because we didn't fill a hole, it'll be because we were out worked by the other team(s).


Agree with most of this...it's like some of our players don't want the cup as bad as some of the opposition! Also that thing about the NHL not being the swedish elite league!

A strong Canadian D or sniper would be nice...keep the goalies!

Edited by AngNMGN99, 18 February 2013 - 02:57 PM.

  • 0

#76 ihavenoideawhatsgoingon

ihavenoideawhatsgoingon

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Joined: 15-February 12

Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:57 PM

haha....filling holes
  • 0

#77 6of1_halfdozenofother

6of1_halfdozenofother

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,328 posts
  • Joined: 16-January 06

Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:08 PM

AV is the League's most winningest coach over the past few years.


And he's got the adaptability of a slug about to be steamrolled.
  • 1
People who label others as bandwagoners, people who tell other people "how" to cheer for their team, "how" they should act or what they should wear to "support" their team, people who only want to hear positive thoughts and don't want to read about how the team can do better - these are people who are insecure and uncomfortable within their own skin.

I'll support my team the way I choose, thank you very much. You can choose to support your team the way you want to, and I won't judge you on it as long as you don't try to force your beliefs on me. I'll also be quick to point out where I think the team can do better, because identifying that there is a problem is the first step to fixing it; denying or ignoring a problem won't solve anything.

Go Canucks Go.

#78 Mookie Wilson

Mookie Wilson

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined: 13-January 09

Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:11 PM

And he's got the adaptability of a slug about to be steamrolled.


Over his first few seasons, the Canucks annually ranked in the bottom half of the League in scoring statistics. Over his latter few seasons, the Canucks have had arguably the best offense in the League.

Lots of people in this thread are calling for a coaching change. I trust objective data over subjective opinion, and the data suggests AV is a very good coach.
  • 0

#79 6of1_halfdozenofother

6of1_halfdozenofother

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,328 posts
  • Joined: 16-January 06

Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

Over his first few seasons, the Canucks annually ranked in the bottom half of the League in scoring statistics. Over his latter few seasons, the Canucks have had arguably the best offense in the League.

Lots of people in this thread are calling for a coaching change. I trust objective data over subjective opinion, and the data suggests AV is a very good coach.


Sure, he's a good coach. You don't make it to the NHL and last for as long as he has being a bad coach.

However, he's been exposed as lacking quick thinking. His general solution to a change of tactics by the other team is to continue playing the same way - even when the style of play has been shown to be flawed.

To be a great coach (which AV is not), you have to be able to change with the unfolding situation. If not for Burrows and his goaltenders - especially Luongo, who he can thank for his Jack Adams - he'd be back coaching in the AHL. Honestly, if I were Luongo, I'd be pretty pissed off at AV.
  • 0
People who label others as bandwagoners, people who tell other people "how" to cheer for their team, "how" they should act or what they should wear to "support" their team, people who only want to hear positive thoughts and don't want to read about how the team can do better - these are people who are insecure and uncomfortable within their own skin.

I'll support my team the way I choose, thank you very much. You can choose to support your team the way you want to, and I won't judge you on it as long as you don't try to force your beliefs on me. I'll also be quick to point out where I think the team can do better, because identifying that there is a problem is the first step to fixing it; denying or ignoring a problem won't solve anything.

Go Canucks Go.

#80 cc_devil

cc_devil

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 813 posts
  • Joined: 26-February 07

Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:33 PM

Every team in their division has been in a rebuild for how many years now giving them some easy points inflating AV `s value.
His playoffs failures as a coach speak for themselves. He`s survived on the goalies success alone.
  • 1

#81 Aladeen

Aladeen

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,312 posts
  • Joined: 22-September 07

Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:37 PM

haha....filling holes

It takes the hole's only natural enemy... the pile to accomplish it!
  • 0
Posted Image

#82 Canuck Surfer

Canuck Surfer

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,802 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 10

Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:55 PM

Well we are good, and a VERY talented team. But most certainly we still need to improve and our road is easier playing so many games in a weak division.

We are too deep on left wing. Too deep on left D. Lets call it very good in goal. That's opportunity to pull off a trade that helps in my books!

Whichever left side D has to slot into our right side has been uncomfortable. We also need a puck moving right handed shot. Both needs could be accomplished in one right D acquired from that depth if its right.

We need at least another big fast forward (plus Booth) who plays hard! Put it this way; if Burrows or even Hansen did exactly what they do but was 210 lbs we would have Dustin Brown, possibly a play off MVP, and likely a Cup! You debate whether its a centre, or RW. To me either would do (and the centre could play wing as required) enough to bust match ups, would be available at the deadline, and allow our talent to surface!

We absolutely need a right D and a big, fast forward!

Edited by Canuck Surfer, 18 February 2013 - 03:57 PM.

  • 0

#83 Phil_314

Phil_314

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,115 posts
  • Joined: 07-November 09

Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

1. Upgrade on D (get a superstar shut down D-man who can put in points)
2. Upgrade a 4th line man (get a huge banger, does well on the faceoffs, and can score points)

4. Upgrade a 2nd line man (ie. Booth, Higgins or Kassian - to a superstar).


1. Who did you have in mind, Seabrook? Weber? Chara? LOL I wonder what deal could be had for those guys, GM MaGician should be able to get them for cheap

2. I'd like Talbot or someone who plays big. If Buffalo tanks, maybe Steve Ott? I've said it before and I'll say it again, Marcel Goc would also be sick to acquire.

4. Vancouver All-Stars. I like the sound of that. Btw where's #3?

EDIT: forgot Luongo's 5-hole in shootouts. Oshie found that entrance no problem.

Edited by g@m3b0i, 18 February 2013 - 04:21 PM.

  • 0

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


Jesus LOVES YOU!
2012, meet Matthew 24:36-47!

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


#84 Canuck Surfer

Canuck Surfer

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,802 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 10

Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:57 PM

Oi; Lou usually has his tick on the ice!

That was bad; like a missed defensive assignment as far as I'm concerned.

Cue Cory next game... :bigblush: (and a Lou trade).


edit; stick on the ice! :picard:

1. Who did you have in mind, Seabrook? Weber? Chara? LOL I wonder what deal could be had for those guys, GM MaGician should be able to get them for cheap

2. I'd like Talbot or someone who plays big. If Buffalo tanks, maybe Steve Ott? I've said it before and I'll say it again, Marcel Goc would also be sick to acquire.

4. Vancouver All-Stars. I like the sound of that. Btw where's #3?

EDIT: forgot Luongo's 5-hole in shootouts. Oshie found that entrance no problem.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 18 February 2013 - 04:58 PM.

  • 0

#85 Forsy

Forsy

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,102 posts
  • Joined: 07-December 10

Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:26 PM

I believe we have improved, and that we have:
1) Much More scoring depth (3+ lines scoring, 2+ defensive pairs)
2) Slightly more ability to snipe in goals (raymond and hansen so far)
3) Slightly more ability to score using transition hockey (sedins burrows)

but:
4) We need to continue working on being unpredictable in every facet of our game (still an issue, especially the Dmen coming out of our zone). We had improved it during the win streak, but for some reason we have become mentally lazy again during the past 2 games.
  • 0

#86 Forsy

Forsy

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,102 posts
  • Joined: 07-December 10

Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:27 PM

.

Edited by Forsy, 18 February 2013 - 05:29 PM.

  • 0

#87 Forsy

Forsy

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,102 posts
  • Joined: 07-December 10

Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:34 PM

1. Who did you have in mind, Seabrook? Weber? Chara? LOL I wonder what deal could be had for those guys, GM MaGician should be able to get them for cheap

2. I'd like Talbot or someone who plays big. If Buffalo tanks, maybe Steve Ott? I've said it before and I'll say it again, Marcel Goc would also be sick to acquire.

4. Vancouver All-Stars. I like the sound of that. Btw where's #3?

EDIT: forgot Luongo's 5-hole in shootouts. Oshie found that entrance no problem.

1. Who said that the trade is possible? It's simply what the team needs - to replace one of our 4.5M+ "very good" defenseman with a "superstar" defensemen, because our cap space allows it (by trading luongo's cap space away). Obviously a franchise dman isn't just going to fly into our lap, but the question was what we needed to fill our holes - not what we can do to improve the team slightly with more redundant players.

The dmen, are starting to look vulnerable, extremely predictable and therefore playing very scared - they need a top defenseman to lead the way and unscramble their heads.

2) Any of the above mentioned is good for this, but we do need a better 4th line banger that has some skill.

3) There is no #3, I mentioned that #4 is a far lesser priority hence the numbering.

4) Again, if you replace a 4.25M+ top6 "very good" forward with a superstar for $6-7M... same logic as #1. Of course, this hole isn't as critical, because the forward group is doing decently even during bad games.

Edited by Forsy, 18 February 2013 - 05:39 PM.

  • 0

#88 CupisAll

CupisAll

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 770 posts
  • Joined: 21-December 11

Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

If everyone is playing to their best, and are healthy. All we need is some extra depth.Just to be safe


we need a sniper to address our inability to score in the playoffs
  • 0

#89 Mookie Wilson

Mookie Wilson

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined: 13-January 09

Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:29 PM

Sure, he's a good coach. You don't make it to the NHL and last for as long as he has being a bad coach.

However, he's been exposed as lacking quick thinking. His general solution to a change of tactics by the other team is to continue playing the same way - even when the style of play has been shown to be flawed.

To be a great coach (which AV is not), you have to be able to change with the unfolding situation. If not for Burrows and his goaltenders - especially Luongo, who he can thank for his Jack Adams - he'd be back coaching in the AHL. Honestly, if I were Luongo, I'd be pretty pissed off at AV.


Only Mike Babcock has won more playoff series as a coach since AV joined the Canucks prior to the 2006-07 season. I find that surprising, given that it takes only a simple adjustment in game style to beat his teams. And it also happens to be the case that of the four teams who have beat AV's Canucks in the playoffs, three of them were the eventual Stanley Cup champions, with Chicago in 2009 being the exception. That is to say, only elite teams have managed to beat AV.

I wouldn't disagree that Luongo contributed to AV's Jack Adams award in 2007. But if you want to also credit Lu for all the playoff victories, I wouldn't be the only person on the other side of this debate.

To repeat, I'll take objective data over subjective opinion. AV is a tremendously successful coach. If he was let go by the Canucks, I'm sure he'd find another NHL head coaching job very soon.
  • 0

#90 Bodee

Bodee

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,257 posts
  • Joined: 26-May 11

Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:04 AM

I love Burrows and Booth is ok but greedy.

I would trade Booth + Edler for a big kickass forward. Someone like Bobby Ryan

Move Ballard up to replace Edler and Vandermeer to replace Ballard, real value and pushback.

Team made for Playoffs. It is now established that the Twins need a decent minder in the playoffs. We have one in Kassian. He wouldn't have fight much just slap people like Marchand and Keith around when they take liberties.

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian

Ryan - Kesler - Burrows

Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen

Volpatti - Lapierre - Higgins


Hamhuis - Bieksa
Ballard - Garrison
Vandermeer - Tanev

This would also help the cap.

Edited by Bodee, 19 February 2013 - 10:17 AM.

  • 0
Kevin.jpg




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.