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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 6.0


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#2491 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:50 PM

Yup, you and Clair were clearly involved in an on point, informative and logical discussion where you both saw each other's arguements but failed to agree rather than both of you trying to repeatedly convince the other with insults and the same facts through multiple posts spanning a few pages. I definitely side with what you were trying to do, but it was pretty clear early on Clair wasn't going to see your side of it so it definitely got off track.

And TO's hanging in there after sliding a bit, but I wonder if they feel confident about their chances if they do make the playoffs with Reimer and Scrivens?

Florida/Washington/Tampa might not be close enough to feel a trade for Luongo would help them this year as they've left it quite late, but if they do think it's an option they'll have to act no rather than wait for the deadline.

I still don't think he goes to the Islanders, but they could consider it, trying to catch one of the Rangers or Hurricanes for a playoff spot.

Columbus would be more for Schneider, but even then it's tough to know what kind of confidence they have in Bobrovski although they're yet another team that would love to make the playoffs this year.

I don't see too many other options unless Buffalo or Philly do something about their current goaltending, and New Jersey might have to finally buck up for someone to replace Brodeur when he goes. A number of these deals could wait til the offseason, although the teams that wait could risk not getting the help in net they need if someone else acts first.


I agree Elvis

Toronto is in most "NEED" right NOW, Islanders second, and if people go back to many moons ago I said as such (sorry to toot my own horn), and said Grabo would be the right guy for us. I agree that many of the bottom feeders would just wait till the draft. They are so far out of it, no need to make any deals now.

That being said, I prefer a deal with the Islanders because they have alot of young talent that can help us restock. I'd prefer we do that with Lou and make some pick for rental veteran swaps at the deadline. Kill two birds with one stone idea.

Ie Lou to the island for some talented youth

Then maybe a 2nd for Jagr
Booth And Ballard for Morrow or Booth/Connaughton for Iginla. I dont think anyone will give up a 2 players with the potential of Booth/kCon for a rental (although could be surprised by Pitts and their stock of young Dmen)....

That really doesn't hurt us if we get youth back in an isles deal

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 22 March 2013 - 01:52 PM.

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#2492 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:53 PM

Oh yeah, it's obviously a jeez I don't know move but so is hanging on to luongo till the offseason.

I'm just pointing out that its not a shoot ourselves in the foot move because of his 5.5 salary. It can be worked in and moved at a later date. If kipper miller and others go to market we could be screwed hanging on to Lu.. I was all for hanging on to him until the right deal is made but more vets are in trade rumors now. That makes keeping Lu into the offseason kinda risky.

There's at least 10 different teams looking for a top six centre upgrade at anytime. Looking at how hard it is to trade a veteran goalie signed for 9 more years, I think it's a no brainer to take that deal and run.

Hypothetical scenario.. if he plays extremely well, What would detroit give you for kesler?


Yeah I agree.

And as for Kesler. I wouldn't give him up. There would have to be a Carter/Richards like package coming back, but a bit more since he has a better contract and is better than those 2 (atleast Richards)

For me to even entertain moving him.
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#2493 apollo

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:02 PM

I think you might be on to something here. I think with any trade with Buffalo we should try to get Ehrhoff back

To Vancouver: Christian Ehrhoff, Steve Ott, Ben Scrivens

To Buffalo: Roberto Luongo, Jake Gardiner

To Toronto: Ryan Miller, Anton Rodin

Healthy line up

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Raymond
Higgins - Ott - Hansen
Schroeder - Lapierre - Kassian

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Ehrhoff
Garrison - Tanev

Schneider
Scrivens


Yea something along those lines...

2 problems
- would lu waive the ntc for Buffalo??
- buffalo owner ship already paid 10 million of hoffs salary and investment wise they will be quite relentless to move him (cap hit is a steal at 4)

I really think these three teams can pull off a deal though. There is enough pieces to make it happen

Also I think tml might have to add more... they are getting miller and Rodin for Gardiner and scrivens?

Edited by apollo, 22 March 2013 - 02:03 PM.

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#2494 thad

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:07 PM

Yeah I agree.

And as for Kesler. I wouldn't give him up. There would have to be a Carter/Richards like package coming back, but a bit more since he has a better contract and is better than those 2 (atleast Richards)

For me to even entertain moving him.


No kidding, me too... That's what I mean though, imagine the package a contender would give you for him.. I think trading either one down the road if they both play well, your looking at a first and good RFA. That's more than luongo will.

Having 3 real good centres makes that a strong possibility when you consider our defense and goaltending are awesome. It loads is up to contend this year and next.

Trade grabo in the 2014 offseason for a 1st and decent player.. That team tanks, boom! you just landed Mcdavid lol
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#2495 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:26 PM

No kidding, me too... That's what I mean though, imagine the package a contender would give you for him.. I think trading either one down the road if they both play well, your looking at a first and good RFA. That's more than luongo will.

Having 3 real good centres makes that a strong possibility when you consider our defense and goaltending are awesome. It loads is up to contend this year and next.

Trade grabo in the 2014 offseason for a 1st and decent player.. That team tanks, boom! you just landed Mcdavid lol


Yeah I would rather trade Grabo later on than Kesler, Kesler is too important and is a much better player.
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#2496 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:36 PM

I understand.



Even if we don't get Grabovski.

Schroeder, Kassian and possibly Jensen will all be ready for improved roles. (Kassian and Schroeder for sure)

We can't hold down talent like this, Yes Higgins is a great 3rd line players but these types of players are complementary pieces, that are interchangeable and don't stick forever.

Schroeder will be the 3C next year at this point, and Kassian will be ready for a consistent spot on the 2nd or 3rd line, Jensen aswell possibly.

That will add 2-3 more top 6 forwards.

Plus rather than pay about 2 Million each for Raymond and Higgins that we might not be able to afford, we add players on cheap deals, which is really a key to success, having young players on cheap contracts make an impact. And finally we are in a position to have that.


I keep higgins before raymond. I like mayray and love his comeback but come playoff time, i'd rather have a vet like higgins in the lineup with youth vs Mayray.

When it matters (if you can replace mayrays scoring - and hopefully Kassian/Jensen will) then the grit and tenacity Higgins brings on the third line with Hansen and a decent big center is invaluable.
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#2497 thad

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:44 PM

Yeah I would rather trade Grabo later on than Kesler, Kesler is too important and is a much better player.


I agree 100%.. Just saying anything can happen. If grabs turned into one of the best trades we ever made and started dominating, then you got an available kesler... One of them becomes the odd man out eventually as young guns start to shine, more than likely it's grabs though.

People like to talk like kesler is done and will never be the same.. He just got into his prime and had a bad run of injuries. I have no doubt he'll be a dominant player for the remainder of his contract at least, if not longer.
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#2498 oldnews

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:04 PM

Yup, you and Clair were clearly involved in an on point, informative and logical discussion where you both saw each other's arguements but failed to agree rather than both of you trying to repeatedly convince the other with insults and the same facts through multiple posts spanning a few pages. I definitely side with what you were trying to do, but it was pretty clear early on Clair wasn't going to see your side of it so it definitely got off track.


Embellishing your point doesn't qualify it to any greater degree Elvis. I realize you have a shortened fuse (yes CDC is good reason to tire) where people disagreeing is concerned (again, I sympathize somewhat, but it is inevitable) - but the discussion about Grabovski certainly wasn't limited to Claiborne (who was called out in the first instance for insulting a respected poster here), nor was it simply as you have reduced it in your description. You're not simply patronizing myself when you sum it up as "Grabs is good, no he isn't, Grabs is good, no he isn't." With all due respect, if you insist on being so reductive, that about sums up the entire nature of these forums in a nutshell - your own participation included. Patronizing the rest of us isn't going to change that. I've refrained from calling you on your mini-modding - part of me sympathises, the other part finds it equally tedious to what you are protesting - yet you insist on continuing to pull this kind of 'intervention'. I have no intention of surrendering these threads - I choose to respond in a different fashion than simply leaving, pretending this thread isn't good enough for my participation, and leaving passive aggressive comments behind.

Edited by oldnews, 22 March 2013 - 03:16 PM.

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#2499 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:06 PM

I agree 100%.. Just saying anything can happen. If grabs turned into one of the best trades we ever made and started dominating, then you got an available kesler... One of them becomes the odd man out eventually as young guns start to shine, more than likely it's grabs though.

People like to talk like kesler is done and will never be the same.. He just got into his prime and had a bad run of injuries. I have no doubt he'll be a dominant player for the remainder of his contract at least, if not longer.


He'll definitely have a good contract year, he'll play hard when the money is on the line....ego boy
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#2500 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:16 PM

I agree 100%.. Just saying anything can happen. If grabs turned into one of the best trades we ever made and started dominating, then you got an available kesler... One of them becomes the odd man out eventually as young guns start to shine, more than likely it's grabs though.

People like to talk like kesler is done and will never be the same.. He just got into his prime and had a bad run of injuries. I have no doubt he'll be a dominant player for the remainder of his contract at least, if not longer.


Yeah same, he looked really good in his early games back IMO.

The first two games he was really on his game and had a dominating presence.

The injury took its toll on him but he showed in that stretch he still has it, and his stats (5 pts in 7 gms) shows that.
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#2501 oldnews

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

Yeah same, he looked really good in his early games back IMO.

The first two games he was really on his game and had a dominating presence.

The injury took its toll on him but he showed in that stretch he still has it, and his stats (5 pts in 7 gms) shows that.


I didn't see that Sk. I thought Kesler, aside from one-timers on the pp, looked uncharacteristically horrible. Floating, not skating, vacant defensive zone coverage - I was actually relieved to hear that it was due to being injured, again - for a few games there, I was beginning to wonder if getting Kesler back was going to be a net benefit, because it was beyond rust - there was more lacking. 5 points yes, but -4, while only a few guys were facing weaker competition, and his relative corsi was -17.3 - only the shutdown guys having (understandably) worse numbers. On top of it, he seemed to have that attitude/chip on his shoulder thing again - which no doubt was surfacing out of sheer frustration after having suffered yet another injury. This team really needs the 'real' Kesler back. I feel bad for him, but hope he comes out the other side of all these challenges stronger, particularly in his mental approach.
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#2502 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:32 PM

I didn't see that Sk. I thought Kesler, aside from one-timers on the pp, looked uncharacteristically horrible. Floating, not skating, vacant defensive zone coverage - I was actually relieved to hear that it was due to being injured, again - for a few games there, I was beginning to wonder if getting Kesler back was going to be a net benefit, because it was beyond rust - there was more lacking. 5 points yes, but -4, while only a few guys were facing weaker competition, and his relative corsi was -17.3 - only the shutdown guys having (understandably) worse numbers. On top of it, he seemed to have that attitude/chip on his shoulder thing again - which no doubt was surfacing out of sheer frustration after having suffered yet another injury. This team really needs the 'real' Kesler back. I feel bad for him, but hope he comes out the other side of all these challenges stronger, particularly in his mental approach.


I ment the first two games.

He looked great in his first games, a little lesser in his 2nd but still really good.

After that his play slipped to what you describe due to the injury.
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#2503 oldnews

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

I ment the first two games.

He looked great in his first games, a little lesser in his 2nd but still really good.

After that his play slipped to what you describe due to the injury.


yeah - pretty disappointing to him no doubt, and everyone involved (the opposition aside).
seeing what the team can manage without a second line, I for one am pretty optimistic about what this team is capable of when it doesn't have two or three of it's top 6 and 4 or 5 or 6 of it's forwards out of the lineup.
I also don't mind seeing the AHL guys get a shot - I think it does a lot for the motivation of everyone in the system when they do.
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#2504 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:52 PM

yeah - pretty disappointing to him no doubt, and everyone involved (the opposition aside).
seeing what the team can manage without a second line, I for one am pretty optimistic about what this team is capable of when it doesn't have two or three of it's top 6 and 4 or 5 or 6 of it's forwards out of the lineup.
I also don't mind seeing the AHL guys get a shot - I think it does a lot for the motivation of everyone in the system when they do.


Yeah I agree.

Kesler will add alot to this team, although I do think we need another center.
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#2505 thad

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

I got a feeling Kes will come back better than before next year. There's a difference between having an offseason to get stronger and prepare yourself for a hard season and coming back off injury, even if you make sure you're 100%. Look at Raymond this year compared to last.

I'll put out a prediction, kesler and edler have career years next season.
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#2506 Green Building

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:07 PM

I think you might be on to something here. I think with any trade with Buffalo we should try to get Ehrhoff back

To Vancouver: Christian Ehrhoff, Steve Ott, Ben Scrivens

To Buffalo: Roberto Luongo, Jake Gardiner

To Toronto: Ryan Miller, Anton Rodin

Healthy line up

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Raymond
Higgins - Ott - Hansen
Schroeder - Lapierre - Kassian

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Ehrhoff
Garrison - Tanev

Schneider
Scrivens


BARF. Christ. I want Ott here for sure. But Ehrhoff and his Luongo contract full of turnovers can take a hike. Not welcome here anymore thanks. Scrivens as a backup? Maybe. Meh is what I really feel. Basically, for Luongo and Rodin we get: screwed in cap space still, a strong third liner - admittedly, and a backup goalie which we would need. Talk about a lateral move for the worse. Sorry, no deal. If Ott and Ehrhoff go to TO and Gardiner come here then our bottom line looks better, we sacrifice on Ott, but afford to buy in other areas.

@ oldnews: I share similar cap management ideas to yours. I value what Higgins has done since coming in from Florida. He is consistent, he plays the boards hard, and come playoff time his workhorse mentality and physicality goes unmatched.

@ Smashian: You have great points in wanting our young prospects to develop and play with the big club. I have wanted that for years now. The reality is that if you have a better veteran option, then you need to let your prospects develop in the minors instead of awarding them a chance in the regular season. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the chance for a prospect to impress is in the preseason. With past decisions of Gillis and AV aside, should prospects dominate a position they should stay on the team next year because they earned it, not just because. I can't sit here and say for sure any of our current crop of prospects is going to step in and outwork someone like Higgins, I just don't see it happenning.

Edited by Green Building, 22 March 2013 - 05:11 PM.

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#2507 BertuzziJr 2.0

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:01 PM

Miss any recent news from you guys?
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#2508 thad

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

Miss any recent news from you guys?


Not really, we kinda started talking about how good we think kesler is lol
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#2509 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:58 PM

Miss any recent news from you guys?


Nope. Same rehashing of prospective Florida and Washington deals involving Luongo and microscopic scrutiny and wishful dreams involving Toronto crap players who apparently will save this franchise from total annihilation in the playoffs and its future.

All three franchises have said no a long time ago.

Stay tune for the roberto-luongo-trade-thread-7.0 though for it looks rather promising with such notions as prospective Florida and Washington deals involving Luongo and microscopic scrutiny and wishful dreams involving Toronto crap players who apparently will save this franchise from total annihilation in the playoffs and its future.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 22 March 2013 - 08:24 PM.

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#2510 theminister

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:13 PM

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#2511 WiDeN

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:23 PM

I dropped Grabovski from my pool cause he kept getting minuses. I still have Bozak, and the Deal were for a single player, then I'd want Bozak and a 1st. Bozak is much much better, and would fit in to our scheme better.
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#2512 WiDeN

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:27 PM

Nope. Same rehashing of prospective Florida and Washington deals involving Luongo and microscopic scrutiny and wishful dreams involving Toronto crap players who apparently will save this franchise from total annihilation in the playoffs and its future.

All three franchises have said no a long time ago.

I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, because I haven't spoken candidly to any GM's. But, I know you haven't either, so we'll just leave it at that.
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#2513 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:34 PM

It's easier to replace work rate than talent.

To me I do not see Higgins here next year because he is a player successful based on work ethic in games? And work ethic can be replaced. It's hard not to appreciate Higgins, but cap will dictate he moves on in favour of younger, cheaper, talent.

No MayRay? We're already waaay down in scoring. If Jensen gets a call up and looks like he's going to kill it, maybe we could get away without Raymond. But Raymond's speed, also his back checking, fore-checking and improved puck possession skills all help the team more than Higgins IMO. I think we should look at re-signing him.

Unless of course the playing board changes in a Lou trade?

I keep higgins before raymond. I like mayray and love his comeback but come playoff time, i'd rather have a vet like higgins in the lineup with youth vs Mayray.

When it matters (if you can replace mayrays scoring - and hopefully Kassian/Jensen will) then the grit and tenacity Higgins brings on the third line with Hansen and a decent big center is invaluable.


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#2514 sting

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:37 PM

It's easier to replace work rate than talent.

To me I do not see Higgins here next year because he is a player successful based on work ethic in games? And work ethic can be replaced. It's hard not to appreciate Higgins, but cap will dictate he moves on in favour of younger, cheaper, talent.

No MayRay? We're already waaay down in scoring. If Jensen gets a call up and looks like he's going to kill it, maybe we could get away without Raymond. But Raymond's speed, also his back checking, fore-checking and improved puck possession skills all help the team more than Higgins IMO. I think we should look at re-signing him.

Unless of course the playing board changes in a Lou trade?

I agree surfer. As far as Grabo there is no scenario that makes sense after this season to acquiring this player. IMO we are better served re signing Raymond at a decent cap number and finding a suitable 3c if Schroeder is not the answer. Grabovski is a nice player don't get me wrong as he would help short term until Kesler returns. Huge cap implications going forward. I could see a luongo for Grabovski trade costing us Booth, Higgins/Raymond as well. Now that is a deal where we get absolutely owned. With Lack for Luongo and Ballard gone we have 12.7m to sign 6 forwards and 4 defenseman next year. Tanev @2. Raymond @3. Lapierre@1.2. Schroeder @1.2. 3 depth forwards@2.1. 3 depth defenseman@ 2.7.= 12.2.........cap space .5m

Edited by sting, 23 March 2013 - 08:28 AM.

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#2515 boxiebrown

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:20 AM

I dropped Grabovski from my pool cause he kept getting minuses. I still have Bozak, and the Deal were for a single player, then I'd want Bozak and a 1st. Bozak is much much better, and would fit in to our scheme better.


The best way to evaluate hockey players and is based on fantasy stats and +/-. Of course.
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#2516 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:38 AM

Thanx for that.

I'm not sure I'm an advocate for a Grabo trade either, its not my first choice. But there is always a way to make it work and I prefer it to no trade.

Lapierre might leave next season is one point. A bigger one, do we still project that Schroeder will grow into a top 6 centre man? That's the question. If not he could be traded while he has the lure of potential.

Also, I doubt Schroeder out performs Grabovski even next year. So it makes sense hockey wise, its just Grabo's salary. Well, I could live with that if Ballard and Lou were moved. There is 3 years left on his deal after this year, a nice amount of time to groom Gaunce... And in the meantime we have a very strong 1,2,3 punch at centre ice with Hank, Kess and Grabovski...

I agree surfer. As far as Grabo there is no scenario that makes sense after this season to acquiring this player. IMO we are better served re signing Raymond at a decent cap number and finding a suitable 3c if Schroeder is not the answer. Grabovski is a nice player don't get me wrong as he would help short term until Kesler returns. Huge cap implications going forward. I could see a luongo for Grabovski trade costing us Booth, Higgins/Raymond as well. Now that is a deal were we get absolutely owned. Yeah With Lack for Luongo and Ballard gone we have 12.7m to sign 6 forwards and 4 defenseman next year. Tanev @2. Raymond @3. Lapierre@1.2. Schroeder @1.2. 3 depth forwards@2.1. 3 depth defenseman@ 2.7.= 12.2.........cap space .5m


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 23 March 2013 - 05:21 AM.

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#2517 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:58 AM

Keeping Schroeder might be the best option over ANY Leafs maybe except Kadri and Kessel. That said, If Kadri were a Canucks, AV would play him on the 4th line and let him "earn his stripes" (rot).
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#2518 oldnews

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:27 AM

Keeping Schroeder might be the best option over ANY Leafs maybe except Kadri and Kessel. That said, If Kadri were a Canucks, AV would play him on the 4th line and let him "earn his stripes" (rot).


1) What happened to your Nonis, Burke, Gillis and Luo said "no" line of b.s.?
2) Not surprised the only Leafs you find value in are their top scorers - pretty much a sure sign of noob-think.
3) Not surprised you repeat that simpleton myth about AV.
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#2519 stawns

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

Yeah I agree.

And as for Kesler. I wouldn't give him up. There would have to be a Carter/Richards like package coming back, but a bit more since he has a better contract and is better than those 2 (atleast Richards)

For me to even entertain moving him.


Kesler is not better than Richards, and is certainly not better than Carter
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#2520 sting

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

Kesler is not better than Richards, and is certainly not better than Carter

Kesler on his game is more effective than either of these guy's hands down. Faster, better defensively and as good offensively and physically.
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