The teams mentality is the problem.

[DaMacNamedDre]

on fire with delusion if she thinks that things will fall into place at playoff time for this team.

[Bodee]

I'm not suggesting that they'll flip a switch. I'm suggesting that, in previous years, they've crashed and banged their way to the top in regular season. They've put it all out there prior to getting there (to the playoffs). The comeback kids, who battled till the end in some games in order to win. Then the playoffs, and they go in depleted, already exhausted, beat up, etc. This year there's some sense that they're coasting. That they're not firing on all cylinders (I tend to agree). So maybe by the time they do wake up, it'll be just in time? Not that they say "ok, let's go now" but that it just sort of happens that way. They've always been slow starters, so maybe by the playoffs they'll be clicking again. That's my suggestion.

[Legend Killer]

I do believe that some of it is mental and complacency but I think it started before Boston, with Chicago. Part of doing a job means that, when you give 110% and come up short, with people devaluing what you have done and the effort that you've given, it's deflating. I am dealing with that on the jobsite and if there's no reward or acknowledgement at the end of a job well done, you lose motivation.

Any team that's been on top but has failed to win the SC likely would experience this...then you have to face going through the motions of trying to get back there...only to come so close? I do feel that psychologically, you lose some of that drive. But it boils down to love of the game...if you lose that, you're doomed. Each time the guys step out on the ice, it shouldn't be about the Cup, it should be about that game and being totally stoked to go hammer it out. To keep a one day/game at a time attitude and just enjoy the moment rather than looking too far down the road. Lu's a bit of a testament to that - when he gets too caught up in the "thinking/figuring out" part, it can divert some of the focus and become a distraction. Just do it, basically.

When you play for the absolute love and passion for the game, it becomes fun again. It falls into place instead of having to force it. I do wonder if some of the fun has been lost through coming up short and battling through some of the adversity that's obviously been a drain (and do know that the "yoga" deal was partly to infuse some in).

You can't ignite that spark for someone, it has to come from within. The guy's lives are changing too, with new babies, etc...perhaps the absolute love and joy that comes with that means the game isn't in the forefront like it was before? (Athough, Hansen says hi to that).

I may be the only one, but I'm still not freaking out or worried. Save it for the playoffs, then have it all fall into place.

[elvis15]

What gets me is as soon as some one starts a thread or mentions the firing of AV the mods lock the subject. It does seem how ever that firing AV is a strong theme amongst CDC followers.

...

Is bringing up firing AV and his staff taboo on this site or against the rules? Plenty of us want to discuss this subject. Many people will debate this because of differing opinions yet the Mods lock this subject. Who the heck do you Mods think you are? There's a little freedom of speech issue here. I want to talk about firing the pathetic coach o this team.

I guess the real question to me is, is AV a Mod?

[wallstreetamigo]

Deb, I admire your confidence.

I am not and never have slated the players individually (although Booth is a stern test) I think they all love the game and love playing it.

However you seem to have slipped into MG's shoes.............You do realise that while we have stood still with a team ALREADY proven to lack the physicality to stay healthy over a run to the final, other teams have not.

We are not sending the a Canucks team (probably weaker in some respects in comparison with 2010-11) to play the same teams to-day who we played 3 years ago.

While Gillis has fumbled his way from one faux pas to another, other GMs have seriously upgraded their teams in skill and size. I pointed that out last year too if you remember. We never saw what hit us when we played LA (quite a few teams didn't)

We thought we would have trouble with the Blues last year and the Coyotes but they are not even in the hunt. Now the Ducks are finally getting it together, the Wings (well we don't want to talk about the Wings, I'm still hurting) The Kings are there again and after the other week I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for beating them best of 7. Add to that the usual suspects the Sharks and the Preds who have both got bigger and better and you might see what I mean.

I could mention Chicago but strangely enough they don't scare me that much as they are a mirror of the Canucks and not physical enough.............who would bet that they too upgrade in size though before the trade deadline.

What I'm saying is, it's bad enough that we have stood virtually still for 2/3 years but we don't/you don't seem to realise that other teams have looked at LA (and LA looked at Boston) and have taken steps to be ready for a war of attrition.

[wallstreetamigo]

No it's not, and you're welcome to bring it up. Just be prepared for others to have a contrary opinion. The issue is everyone needs their own thread to discuss it, and it's probably best to discuss it in the existing thread(s). Then there's the rule about PMing a mod if you have questions or concerns rather than discussing it publicly, but you'd know that already if you'd read and understood the other board rule about redundant threads.

Back to the topic at hand (which isn't strictly about AV, but the team dynamic and attitude), I'm not sure of the solution. We know about the fire AV part, but if that doesn't work? Trade all the players and start over, trying to get everyone's 1st round draft picks and young stars?

I don't think the problem is that dire, but I can see the need for a shakeup. Doing that might put us off the rails this year, but maybe we put it together over the summer and come back better next year. New coach, new players, new attitude; all, some or none might be needed depending if we figure it out soon or not.

[chrisbanks]

Maybe falling out of 1st in the division and being in a proper dogfight for points will wake them up.

[wallstreetamigo]

I may be the only one, but I'm still not freaking out or worried. Save it for the playoffs, then have it all fall into place.

[BuretoMogilny]

I agree with some of your points but I think you have the wrong psychology.

I think the team realised having gone all the way to game 7 of the final that they took an absolute hammering. The realisation set in that the best of 7 format is a whole different game. Why because it wears the less physical players down and in some cases makes them irrelevant. What this leads to is the few physical players you do have trying to make up the deficit.

This team saw they couldn't come up with the game under the present rules and probably without realising it, stepped back.

A smart proactive GM in such a situation prioritises his roster and decides who is dispensable and goes out to upgrade the team.......not all at once but bit by bit.

For example take the 1st line, exceptional in regular season......disappointing in the SC. The Sedins NEEDED a big body who could snipe and not only protect them but to make space for them around the goal. I love Burr but he is NOT that player.

The 2ND line was the same. Kesler wrecked himself fighting his and others battles in that run. Booth was nowhere near the answer. Jagr or Clowe or Ryan was the answer. Especially if we were going to use the attributes of Raymond.

I could go on but I've said it all elsewhere. We needed a blood transfusion and we got a manicure. Gillis asleep at the wheel. The guy's sights are trained way too low for this team.

"This team didnt have the grit or determination to beat the bruins but gillis has stayed with the same coach, same system, same core relatively."

This is what annoys me. How can you say these things and NOT lay the blame at Gillis door? How the -------- can the coach insert grit, or change the core?

They had determination in spades by the way and plenty of grit they just didn't have enough big physical bodies.

Let me ask any of you who follow English Premier League soccer.

If Sir Alex Ferguson had been coach AND gm of the Canucks and they had fallen at the last hurdle in 2011 and shat the bed in 2012 how many of this team would be getting a third shot? Not damn many.

[VanIsleNuckFan]

Deb = +1

Deb = +1

VanIsleNuckFan = optimist

[Vansicle]

THIS.

Gillis is relying on the team building strategy (a la the Detroit model) that worked last decade. The game has changed though. Youth, size, speed, and yes Burkie levels of truculence...lol are the way teams win in the playoffs now.

The coach is disconnected and aloof. The GM is in denial. The strategy is tired and broken. No one fears this supposedly elite team.

Time for big changes. Gillis should start with AV now unless he wants to be out the door first.

[86Viking]

I disagree with Deb

Last year we had great overall season presidents trophy but we knew we neededto be better once the playoffs started. We all know how that worked out.

To stand pat yet again is not what a proper GM in the league should do. The blame faults on AV and the GM. the GM has an out card by firing the coach, especially since he didnt hire the guy. So how long do you sit around and wait to pull that trigger.

[snucks]

Yeah, after the Boston cup series the Canucks lost their swagger. Everyone new it, except management. AV did not get them there despite wining the presidents trophy twice. AV over thinks things and has too many assistants. Its just like the too many refs. One man needs to be the decider. A coach must keep it simple and not surround himself with scapegoats.

[MayRayDown]

the last 2 years have just been just save it for the playoffs. the regular season they have have been lackluster except for two major games where they showed up and had urgentcy.

2011-2012 boston vs Van.

2012-2013 LA vs Van Had Sedins dangling Kopitar and Doughty, Now on a 3 game skid scoring just 5 goals. We scored 5 against LA seems like everyone just took the foot off the gas

[BuretoMogilny]

I'm not suggesting that they'll flip a switch. I'm suggesting that, in previous years, they've crashed and banged their way to the top in regular season. They've put it all out there prior to getting there (to the playoffs). The comeback kids, who battled till the end in some games in order to win. Then the playoffs, and they go in depleted, already exhausted, beat up, etc. This year there's some sense that they're coasting. That they're not firing on all cylinders (I tend to agree). So maybe by the time they do wake up, it'll be just in time? Not that they say "ok, let's go now" but that it just sort of happens that way. They've always been slow starters, so maybe by the playoffs they'll be clicking again. That's my suggestion.

[elvis15]

So it is better to stand pat with a team and strategy that have not worked yet? Honestly, why does everyone seem to think that firing AV is going to self destruct this team? It is not. It is one move that can be done to help and if this team relies on AV to the poin it cannot survive without him then this team is not winning anything anytime soon anyway and bigger changes are needed.

You don't stand pat because of the fear that it won't be better with someone else as the coach. You look at the options and make a calculated risk. At this point there is pretty much zero risk that this team with its current players could do much worse than they are right now.

And honestly man, they should make you a mod here. Then you won't look like as much of a dick when you jump in and scold people like you are one.

[manudibango]

The Vancouver Canucks never ever won the STANLEY CUP with Alain .V in the bench ,NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the team now playing like bunch of individual , not like a team ,poor PP poor PK POOR 5 ON 5.

Poor overtime ,and poor shout out. And the member of this team not poor at all , is millionairess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Canucks my team FOR EVER , just so painful watching now .The team have no heart and no soul !!

[Hunter56]

GOALIE FIGHT!!!

[86Viking]

Deb, have to disagree with you here. Last year they coasted to the presidents trophy, most would say they have no idea how they won it the way they played most of the year. That was the argument last year, we'll be ready, we'll turn it on, etc..

They have become complacent, that team that was focused on everyone getting better, coming out with fire and passion every game as they did in 2011 is gone. The character in the room is a problem and a big one. When the compete level is missing something is wrong. Unlucky bounces, bad breaks, injuries etc all play a role but if the compete level is there and not results one could see your point.

However, this team's compete level is not there, cohesiveness is not there, playing a system correctly is not there. Something is wrong, game 7 gave us a glimpse, last year gave strong evidence, this year is proving it.

[TrueBlueBoys]

Okay here comes my argument.

I dont think that anybody can question the talent on this team it is there no question. The twins are playing well trying to carry the team and as leaders during times like this thats there role. I know gillis has made moves that are somewhat questionable but as I see it his job is to give the coaching staff the talent and players that they need, I personally think for the most part he has done that. Would it be nice to have a second line center via a luongo trade or another solid fourth liner? sure, of course it would but I have faith that gillis has made the descisions he has for the right reasons. Anywho my point is that the players have the talent and gillis has found and made these players available to the coaching staff so the missing link has to be the coaching. As a head coach in the NHL or any other pro sports leauge your job is to get the most out of your team. I think it is fairly obvious that Coach V and company are not. Im not saying OMFGZZZ FiRe THEEE COaCH!!!!!!!!11111. Give this team five more games if the slump continues say we go 1-2-2 or something of the sort. Gillis needs to think hard about making a change. Look at LA last year. Sometimes the coach loses a room and it doesnt matter where he took us or that he won a jack adams or back to back presidents trophys. Those all are great accomplishments but when you lose the room none of that matters and its time to move on unfortunatley.